Business with brothers

[Gsmiles]

How important is a business contract between two blood brothers who are also spiritual brothers?

[seagull]

Very important.

 

Money changes everything and makes sane people behave in very poor ways so it is critical there is a clear understanding of who does what, how much is paid, what the terms are etc. etc.  

 

I've not checked the references but the organisation have advised written contracts for any works over and over again.

[Gsmiles]

Very important.

 

Money changes everything and makes sane people behave in very poor ways so it is critical there is a clear understanding of who does what, how much is paid, what the terms are etc. etc.  

 

I've not checked the references but the organisation have advised written contracts for any works over and over again.

 

True bro Jez, there have been Kingdom Ministry articles about this. I should check the Watchtower library for refs. It's just taken for granted where blood brothers are involved. And it's very hard to advise people when you are outside of that circle, but involved somehow.

[Old]

How important is a business contract between two blood brothers who are also spiritual brothers?

 

 

Very important !!!

[Qapla]

ESSENTIAL!!!!

[Ahuvah]

It's the LOVE of money that changes things ... but things are hard to change if you have a seal tight written contract as you would anyone else. Brothers forget and circumstances change ... so write everything down and make it legal. It saves relationships in the end.

[seagull]

True bro Jez, there have been Kingdom Ministry articles about this. I should check the Watchtower library for refs. It's just taken for granted where blood brothers are involved. And it's very hard to advise people when you are outside of that circle, but involved somehow.

 

You can see what happens with blood relatives and money when a parent dies and the inheritance is due to be settled.  The arguments and bad feeling that can ensue are outrageous.  

[Ahuvah]

Yes brother Jez ... and misunderstandings and 'mountains out of molehills' ensue even in the truth. I'm shocked at some of the things I've witnessed lately all based on assumptions ... still shaking my head ... can imagine it happening to business dealings as well ... seek peace and pursue it, is important - not when things go wrong but from the very beginning.

[Lance]

How important were covenants ( contracts) to Jehovah ?... Very

[carlos]

How important is a business contract between two blood brothers who are also spiritual brothers?

 

There is a scriptural precedent for that:

 

w06 3/1 p. 23 par. 5

5 When the prophet Jeremiah bought a field from his cousin, who was a fellow worshipper of Jehovah, he made a written record of the transaction before witnesses. (Jeremiah 32:9-12) A wise person today will make sure that all business arrangements he enters, including those with relatives and fellow believers, are documented in a formal written agreement.* Having a clear, well-prepared written agreement helps to prevent misunderstandings and preserve unity. On the other hand, failure to have a written agreement is often a contributing factor when business problems arise between servants of Jehovah. Sadly, such problems can result in heartache, bitterness, and even loss of spirituality.

Edited March 15, 2015 by cvillarrubia

[LeslieDean]

ASK ME!!  My fleshly sister/spiritual sister, my husband and myself purchased a home together.  Nothing in writing.  Just our  trust in each other.  Circumstances change.  She became disfellowshipped and there was much strife in a family situation re: her gay son.  She moved out.  It was like a divorce.  Maybe even worse because she had been my spiritual sister too.  Husband is a non-witness.  In the end we are still trying too sort things out.  I can not talk to any of my family about this and she has the ability to talk all she wants.  I would like to think she doesn't but I just don't know.  It has been two years May 6th and I don't think she is attending meetings...yet

[Beggar for the Spirit]

Hi Sister Gugu,

 

Maybe a way of thinking about your question is to consider the reasons

why we are encouraged to "make contracts" with our spiritual brothers/sisters and even family.

1 reason is not because we do not trust them!

Here below are the very beneficial reasons, besides also being scriptural as Brother Carlos nicely posted

a scriptural precedent.

 

______________________________________________________________________________

*** g04 7/22 p. 10 How to Protect Yourself From Fraud ***
To protect yourself from both fraud and misunderstandings, you should get the details in writing before making any major investment. Any contract that you sign should document all the terms of the investment and the promises made. Recognize, too, that no matter how sound an investment may appear, no one can guarantee that things will go as planned. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) After all, there is really no such thing as a risk-free investment. Thus, an agreement should specify in writing what the duties and responsibilities of each person will be should the business fail.
 

*** w97 8/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
Since Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to be honest and they trust one another, why do they feel that it is important to make a written contract when there are business dealings between them?
Their doing so is Scriptural, practical, and loving. How so?

 

....it is with Scriptural precedent that true worshipers handle matters in such a confirmed and documented way.
It is also practical.

We know how true the saying is that “time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11)

That includes devoted and faithful Christians. James 4:13, 14 puts it this way:

“Come, now, you who say: ‘Today or tomorrow we will journey to this city and will spend a year there, and we will engage in business and make profits,’ whereas you do not know what your life will be tomorrow.”

Hence, we may begin a project, such as making a purchase, performing an agreed upon work or service, or producing an item for someone. But what will tomorrow—or next month or next year—bring? What if we or the other party were to have an accident? That might seem to make keeping the agreement impossible. What if we cannot do the work or perform the service, or he finds it next to impossible to keep up the payments or keep his end of the agreement? If there is no written agreement, real problems could arise, ones that could be settled or could have been avoided by having a simple written contract.

Further, we should not forget that the very uncertain nature of many aspects of life might even mean that someone else would have to take over or settle our (or his) business affairs. James added in verse 14: “For you are a mist appearing for a little while and then disappearing.” Realistically, we might die unexpectedly. A written agreement, a contract, could in practical terms allow others to carry on in handling matters should something unexpected occur on either side.

In a sense, this leads also to the third aspect—written contracts are loving. Certainly, if either party died or had an incapacitating accident, it would have been loving for a Christian to have provided a written record of his obligations or financial expectations.

And rather than reflect distrust, it shows love for the brother with whom we are dealing to make a written contract that will state clearly and exactly what he is obliged to do or is in position to receive. This loving step will minimize any cause for hard feelings or resentment if one of the imperfect parties should forget some details or responsibilities. And who of us is not imperfect, forgetful, or prone to misunderstand details or intents?—Matthew 16:5.
There are other ways in which making written business agreements reflects love for our brother, our family, and for the congregation in general. But it should be clear that beyond being loving, such written records in adequate detail are practical and Scriptural.
 

[Gsmiles]

Thank you all so much for your responses. 

Brother Neil, thank you for the references, and for taking the time out to post the actual articles.  

 

Sister Leslie, thank you for sharing that personal experience. I'm sorry you went through that. I will learn from your story as much as I can. Thank you.

[jpcook]

How important is a business contract between two blood brothers who are also spiritual brothers?

 

As donald Trump always says, "It's not personal, it's just business!"

Do not confuse emotions with business... have a contract, it protects all!

You have a "marriage contract" with your husband or wife, do you not?

Edited March 16, 2015 by jpcook

[LRJW]

A couple of years ago I was helping a brother with something at his house.  He asked me to move his SUV out of the driveway, and in doing so I hit a brick barrier on the side of his driveway with the front of his SUV and damaged it.

 

I told him to get an estimate and let me know.  I felt really bad.  So he took his time (about a month) getting an estimate, and it came back to $995.  (It wasn't mechanical damage, just the bumper had gotten a little bit cracked and scraped, but they had to replace the whole bumper.)

 

I couldn't afford it right then, and my insurance deductible was $1000 anyway, so we wrote out a contract that I would give him $250 each week until I paid him $1000, and then that'd be it.

 

It worked out fine on my end.  The only problem is, he never got it fixed.  He just pocketed the money and spent it on something else, I assume.  My conscience over damaging another brother's car is clean, but every time we see his SUV at the Hall or in service, my wife always points it out and grumbles about basically how he "stole" our money.

 

It does bother me a little bit, but not as much as  my wife.  The contract didn't specifically say that he would get it fixed by such and such date, but it did specify that this was according to an estimate for the damage I caused.  But it has been 2 years, so I guess it does bother me more than I thought.

[LeslieDean]

John, that would bother me too!  See, we are fickle people.  Even though you were responsible for the accident he had insurance I assume.  Maybe his deductable was lower and you could have paid that.  His insurance probably would not have gone up.  I applaud you for keeping your mouth shut. LOL.  I don't know if I could have done it.  It hurts when our spouse is not as supportive as we would like. Two years. Wow! 

 

Goes back to the "no good deed goes unpunished"  saying. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by LeslieDean

[Gsmiles]

A couple of years ago I was helping a brother with something at his house.  He asked me to move his SUV out of the driveway, and in doing so I hit a brick barrier on the side of his driveway with the front of his SUV and damaged it.

 

I told him to get an estimate and let me know.  I felt really bad.  So he took his time (about a month) getting an estimate, and it came back to $995.  (It wasn't mechanical damage, just the bumper had gotten a little bit cracked and scraped, but they had to replace the whole bumper.)

 

I couldn't afford it right then, and my insurance deductible was $1000 anyway, so we wrote out a contract that I would give him $250 each week until I paid him $1000, and then that'd be it.

 

It worked out fine on my end.  The only problem is, he never got it fixed.  He just pocketed the money and spent it on something else, I assume.  My conscience over damaging another brother's car is clean, but every time we see his SUV at the Hall or in service, my wife always points it out and grumbles about basically how he "stole" our money.

 

It does bother me a little bit, but not as much as  my wife.  The contract didn't specifically say that he would get it fixed by such and such date, but it did specify that this was according to an estimate for the damage I caused.  But it has been 2 years, so I guess it does bother me more than I thought.

That's quite a story there my brother.

[Lance]

Well the opposite way of looking at this is .. Well if you are not going to get it fixed than I will not pay you for the damage ... And than every time he see's you he can grumble...

You did the correct thing.. You paid your debt.. If he ever try's to resell the vehicle at that time he may fix it or take a reduced price due to the damage..

In either case the scales of justice has being balanced.. And you initiated it .. Well done good and faithful slave