Baby, Baby where did our bugs go?

[kejedo]

One of my sons was opening a sealed cup of noodles (ramen type product) and there were a bunch of bugs, in,  and moths that flew out.  The package was sealed and no sign of entry, anywhere. They were there for some time.  I remember, long ago, finding some insect type in a pasta box that been in the pantry for quite a spell. I have heard a number of theories about these unpaying  guests. I was told that bug larvae are stuck in the waxy covering of the narrow, curly noodles. I rarely eat any of these grains, anymore, but would like the skinny on these thin noodles. Are they as non-nutritive and as toxic as I hear tell? I used to keep an emergency 6-pack of Chicken Mauruchan, and kept some in school for my students; have retired both practices now.   

[dove]

I have purchased spaghetti from a health store that had some kind of worm like creatures in it. I think there has to be some nutrition in anything with them because otherwise they would have nothing to feed on. Dead food does not contain anything living because there is no life for them to exist on..

[Tortuga]

The Pastafarians think those bugs are distant relatives...

[Thesauron]

Dead food does not contain anything living because there is no life for them to exist on..

This is the first time I’ve heard this. What do you mean?

[Miss Bea]

I’ve heard tell that these Ramon noodles have something in them that makes them a health risk if you eat them regularly. Some wax, if I remember right. Takes three days for the stuff to clear out of ones system. That’s my vague memory, mind you..

One of the saddest thing I remember seeing was a college student, sitting there, on the sidewalk, eating them uncooked. 

[kejedo]

7 hours ago, Miss Bea said:

One of the saddest thing I remember seeing was a college student, sitting there, on the sidewalk, eating them uncooked. 

I also used to eat ramen raw, by the chunk. I've had some pretty sad meals in my time.

[Qapla]

I am not sure the term "raw/uncooked" it totally correct for the ramen noodles purchased in the US. I had a doctor and dietitian tell me that ramen noodles have been fried before packaging and are, therefore, already cooked.

 

As to the health concerns of ramen, it turns out that, even though there have been claims that eating ramen often can cause health issues, there apparently have been no studies done to support this conclusion.

[dove]

14 grams of fat and 1,820 grams of sodium and probably MSG in a single brick.. 

Just now, Dove said:

14 grams of fat and 1,820 grams of sodium and most probably MSG in a single brick.. 

 

[Tortuga]

42 minutes ago, kejedo said:

I also used to eat ramen raw, by the chunk. I've had some pretty sad meals in my time.

My wife makes a great Asian salad that has broken ramen in it for a crunch element.

[dove]

8 hours ago, Thesauron said:

This is the first time I’ve heard this. What do you mean?

In his book, Reversing Inflammation, Don Colbert says that the flour in my grandmother's day was less processed and so contained more nutrients and was more able to sustain the life of these bugs, used to be called flour weevils.

But today, flour is so processed in most cases for longer shelf life, that it is devoid of anything for the bugs to live on...this holds true with any food.

The pasta I bought in the health food store had the problem because it was not white flour but spinach or some sort of flour not white and as processed, and probably was old as well, as this store did not seem to have a big turnover. 

I'm sure on google more instances could be found to explain better what I am trying to say..

[Old]

12 hours ago, Dove said:

 ... Dead food does not contain anything living because there is no life for them to exist on..

1

For the most part I prefer dead food, at least at the time I eat it. Live food often struggles when being chewed. Beef is quieter if it is dead before consumption. I think the closest I have come to eating a live cow was at the Big Texan in Amarillo TX. I like my steak rare, but with it being “Texas Rare” I was slightly concerned my steak would bellow at the first slice. They actually list “Howlers” on their menu, that struck me as being a little scary. W-a-a-ay out west our cows moo or bellow, they only howl when being branded. I think that must be practice for the Big Texan.  

 

https://www.bigtexan.com/restaurant/menu/

[Qapla]

I have seen and experienced having "flour weevils" in flour - it has not mattered if the flour was "unprocessed" or if it was the fully processed white flour found in most grocery stores. If you don't use the flour and it sits on the shelf long enough - it may hatch these bugs (they are not really weevils)

 

"There is already a certain amount of eggs when the flour is new and most all grain items will contain a minute amount of infestation--and still meet FDA standards. Our pioneer ancestors dealt with this all the time--they just accepted some addition protein." ( https://www.wikihow.com/Get-Rid-of-Weevils-(Flour-Bugs) )

[Thesauron]

In his book, Reversing Inflammation, Don Colbert says that the flour in my grandmother's day was less processed and so contained more nutrients and was more able to sustain the life of these bugs, used to be called flour weevils.
But today, flour is so processed in most cases for longer shelf life, that it is devoid of anything for the bugs to live on...this holds true with any food.
The pasta I bought in the health food store had the problem because it was not white flour but spinach or some sort of flour not white and as processed, and probably was old as well, as this store did not seem to have a big turnover. 
I'm sure on google more instances could be found to explain better what I am trying to say..

How do you mean flour is being processed so that it is less nutritious today than, say, 50 years ago?

[Old]

When I was a starving pioneer, a loving older sister dropped off a kettle of white beans cooked with a ham.  This was mid-afternoon, my partner and I hadn't eaten anything except a bowl of mush for breakfast 8 hours earlier. We gobbled down a helping each when we note some dark items scattered through the beans. On close examination they were weevils. Concluding we had already consumed many we both had another helping. By this time we had slowed down enough to really assess the ration of weevils to beans we lost what appetite we had remaining. Until this day I still think those were the tastiest beans I ever ate. 

[Tortuga]

28 minutes ago, Old said:

When I was a starving pioneer, a loving older sister dropped off a kettle of white beans cooked with a ham.  This was mid-afternoon, my partner and I hadn't eaten anything except a bowl of mush for breakfast 8 hours earlier. We gobbled down a helping each when we note some dark items scattered through the beans. On close examination they were weevils. Concluding we had already consumed many we both had another helping. By this time we had slowed down enough to really assess the ration of weevils to beans we lost what appetite we had remaining. Until this day I still think those were the tastiest beans I ever ate. 

I can picture you and your partner smacking the back of each remaining weevil and yelling

"Spit it out, spit it out!"

Edited December 10, 2017 by Tortuga

[dove]

34 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

How do you mean flour is being processed so that it is less nutritious today than, say, 50 years ago?

 

I wonder about offering comments because after a quote like this one and Qapla, (weevils) (yes, I read that too, but they have always been and still are referred to as weevils by many) et. I will spend much time that I could be using in a more productive way, to find proof of my statements for those 'inquiring minds'. I often wonder why when ones ask for more explanation they cannot do the research for themselves...which is what I have always felt was the best way to go to get a more rounded out answer as the link I offer may not be considered in many minds as the one they would have gone to.

I understand about being able to back up what we say and not expect others to just accept naively whatever we post, but having to always Prove everything which I got from the same sites that I would link to, even them someone may disagree with the backup as there is much disagreement on the internet over any subject possible. Here too. We all accept or not different sources of information that are themselves not in agreement. So would that really be the answer unless you linked to the source that each one would agree was in their own opinion, credible?

 

I don't always agree with everything either but after a few posts back and forth it feels (to me) like I am arguing; so as in the past, when I acquiesced for the sake of peace; I would like to do now..

 

 

[Old]

Sister Sandra, don't be taken back by contrary reponses, I would rate your posts as 9 out of possible 10. When a statement of fact is made such as "Dead food does not contain anything living because there is no life for them to exist on." one should be prepared to back it up with the source, especially when the statement is taken on its face value and is known to be untrue by many. Perhaps your statement was a little too broad and therefore open to question. I for one would like to know the context of the statement you cite, also the author. 

 

[Thesauron]

32 minutes ago, Dove said:

I often wonder why when ones ask for more explanation they cannot do the research for themselves...

This is what I’m doing, and my findings are contrary to your statement, so I’m asking what you base your statement upon. 

[kejedo]

Not about wheat bugs, but about wheat itself: https://grainstorm.com/pages/modern-wheat     Many agricultural engineers have concluded that wheat, itself, has changed in recent decades: Changes in milling, throwing out parts of the original plant, not letting fields go fallow, and biogenetic altering have been cited by several sources as contributing to eventual changes in the grain, itself.  Not commenting on the gluten controversy, or bug attraction, there does seem to be some agreement, that the wheat is different now. 

[GeordieGirl]

 

30 minutes ago, kejedo said:

Not about wheat bugs, but about wheat itself: https://grainstorm.com/pages/modern-wheat     Many agricultural engineers have concluded that wheat, itself, has changed in recent decades: Changes in milling, throwing out parts of the original plant, not letting fields go fallow, and biogenetic altering have been cited by several sources as contributing to eventual changes in the grain, itself.  Not commenting on the gluten controversy, or bug attraction, there does seem to be some agreement, that the wheat is different now. 

 

That's a good article, Pauline, and explains the why's of the gluten problem. Here's another that I read some time ago in similar vein.

http://www.biblefriendlybooks.com/2016/07/the-great-wheat-crisis.html

Edited December 10, 2017 by GeordieGirl

[Qapla]

I am not trying to start/engage in a controversy. If you took any of my comments as such, I apologize as it was not my intention. Let me explain:

 

It may be the case that wheat/flour is not the same as it was 50 years ago. However, modern wheat, the stuff sold in Walmart as I type this, will grow "weevils" if stored too long or in the wrong conditions.

 

As to them being weevils or beetles, a simple search for "flour weevils" will turn up several sites that explain that, while commonly called weevils, they are actually beetles. To tell you the truth, I was a bit surprised by this since I have always called them weevils.

 

As to "dead" food - well, a piece of uncooked meat (pork/beef/lamb/chicken) that is left to sit will grow maggots even if it is stored in a container that does not let flies inside. I din't know about you, but the meat in my fridge is certainly not alive - so, you can see why an exception was taken about the assertion that "Dead food does not contain anything living because there is no life for them to exist on"

[kejedo]

2 minutes ago, Qapla said:

I am not trying to start/engage in a controversy. If you took any of my comments as such, I apologize as it was not my intention. Let me explain:

I think it's semantics, and I have never known you to start controversy, just the opposite, whatever that is. There should be a word for "not starting controversy,"  like "qapla-ize." If that word existed, I would suggest that more folks practice 'qapla-izing.'  I guess I don't know everything I should have discovered about bugs on grains (that i rarely eat. )  

                                                                                                                                    Y (low carbing) S

                                                                                                        p.s. not low carbon - that would be just stupid 

[Qapla]

Pauline, I appreciate the kind words. Like we are told, "as far as it depends on us, be peaceable" - this is what I try to do, but it is not always easy or taken in the way a post is intended.

 

As for the bugs in "today's" flour, one of the reason I know that it still happens, I recently had to toss out some All Purpose Walmart flour that we had unopened for a couple of years ... too many bugs to sift out

 

[Old]

I keep hearing that the white flour bought at Wallmart is different from the way it was manufactured in my grandmothers day.

My grandmother was born in the latter 19^th century, probably around 1890. Research shows that in the early part of the 19th-century flour was milled with stone mills, a complicated and tedious method. It is probably true that a little less heat was generated using stone mills. What didn’t work very well was maintaining a constant moisture content during the process. This process produced an uneven quality of flower among the various mills. The same parts of the grain were removed, the germ and the bran. If much of the germ is allowed to remain the flour won’t keep well. A little germ and a little bran put back in and you have whole wheat bread.

This was well before my grandmothers time.

During my grandmother’s early years flour mills had already switched over to steel rolls in the milling process. This abetted quality control as the roles were not wearing so fast and lead to higher production. (Slowed down wear on teeth also.)The same two parts of the grain, the germ, and the bran, were still removed for the same purpose, longevity, consistency, and flavor. The same process that existed in my grand mother’s day is still the process they use today. Improvements have been made in moisture control and in automation. What comes out of the mill is whichever kind of flour the market determines.

Another area the health preachers like to dwell on is ‘fortification’ of white flour. There is an error here that they do not like to go into. White flour is not fortified, that would mean adding ingredients that were not in the original grain. White flour that you buy at Wallmart is not enriched due to loss of nutrients in the high speed milling processed. What is lost, is lost during the bleaching process. Enrichment uses the germ which is processed to separate thiamin, riboflavin, niacin all ‘B’ vitamins, plus iron, these come from the germ and are restored to the level of whole wheat flower. This began in 1940 and became law for all military contracts in 1942. (Some countries require an addition of calcium which actually would be a fortifying ingredient.)

Conclusion: The flour my grandmother used is basically the same as you buy today, less the restoration of ‘B’ vitamins lost during bleaching.

The flour in my mothers day, 1938 on, was enriched by restoration of ‘B’ vitamins (plus a little iron) that was lost during bleaching, not the milling process that has been in existence for about 160 years.

Note: I am talking about white flour you might buy at Kroger or Wall Mart, not the really good flour manufactured by artesian millers, that would be a whole ‘nother story. Artesian flour makes fantastic bread. 

[dove]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

I am not trying to start/engage in a controversy. If you took any of my comments as such, I apologize as it was not my intention. 

 

I apologize as well..my intention was not that either..I respect your view and want to say that I did not think what you said was wrong..

 

(Not a way to spend you're 62nd anniversary)..