A question regarding feelings of self serving when we worship God

[tekmantwo]

So, I was talking to a guy a little bit ago and we kinda got into self serving feelings. He was having a problem with worship, he didn't want to do it for what he could get out of it, he feels that he would be doing it for selfish reasons and not out of Love for God.

 

I showed him where the Bible says about Jesus..'for the joy that was set before him', I also mentioned Paul's writing of 'racing to win the prize'  but he didn't really feel satisfied with those thoughts.

 

I wasn't really doing a good job at explaining myself and we ran out of time and went our separate ways. 

 

What is a good tack to take when explaining this?

 

I told him we do what we do out of Love and not because we can work and buy a reward, that Jehovah gifts us 'the prize' out of His love and His loving kindness towards us, I don't really feel that I did a good enough job of it.

 

Any suggestions?.. and, thanks in advance,  I know that y'all will have something I can use for next time...

[Cushi]

I would say that some do serve God initially out of fear of destruction or for a reward... but as we grow in our love for Jehovah our motives change. The important thing is that we decide to take a stand for pure worship, no matter our motives at the beginning because our feelings will change if they are not pure from the beginning. Don’t let that hold you back. Love for God is based off of knowledge. You won’t have the desire to serve a God faithfully out of love that you know nothing about. 

You could illustrate it this way: let’s say a child has just been adopted and the adoptive parents set out rules for the child and tell them that if the rules are not abided by and chores are not done the child won’t get an allowance and will be punished. Because the child doesn’t know the parents yet, it does these things in fear of punishment and in hopes of a reward. But as the child comes to learn the loving qualities of the parents, it then obeys out of love and respect. 

 

The same goes for us. If we didn’t already have a love for God and knew very little about him before we learned the truth, we may have decided to serve him for selfish reasons. As we grew in our knowledge and love for him our motives and feelings changed.

[vern]

that scripture about faith,hope,love.... part of the rewards give us hope.Jehovah gives us positive things to strive for. Sure we don't want  be selfish but at the same time we can have a positive hope and work in that direction. It just trying to be blanced about not being selfish and not be so unbalanced as to take away our hope of positive rewards.

 

eventhe tree of the knowledge of good and bad was a gift that staying loyal to Jehovahby not partaking would of given positive rewards if they didn't partake.

[tekmantwo]

Thanks guy, I appreciate your replies...

 

Anyone else want to give this a shot?..

[Lance]

Any relationship is based on give and take ... 

Jehovah gives and he expects us to have gratitude and give... by our attititude and actions ... 

‘It is not “ all about us” as the world likes to promote..materialistic, ego centric, self serving ways..

‘If we get the big picture we see ourselves as part of the family of God with privileges and responsibilities.

james 1:27

27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.

[Tortuga]

14 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

He was having a problem with worship, he didn't want to do it for what he could get out of it, he feels that he would be doing it for selfish reasons and not out of Love for God.

I wonder if he feels guilty for getting any pleasure for serving God. It's sad how false religion has used guilt to control people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice

[Bek]

I think God offers us the reward of everlasting life as an incentive for a good reason. He knows that we are only dust. We are imperfect beings and as such it is difficult for us at times to serve God only out of love. Besides, the love that God wants from us is not the sentimental one, but the one based on "principles, duty and propriety". If we follow God's laws, it means we love him. I don't think that the "guy" you mentioned would say that he did not want to follow his country's laws for "selfish reasons". He just does it because he knows that it is the right thing. 

 

One way or another, an element of some selfishness will always be there due to our nature. You know that if you serve God, his laws will benefit you and there will also be a reward. You also know that if you do not serve God, there will be a punishment and you will want to avoid that by preserving yourself. So God is, in effect, telling us that it is not only about worshiping him, but also about benefiting us. There is a balance of interests.    

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Bek

[Pjdriver]

Expecting to fulfill certain inherent desires and needs are the way Jehovah created us. 

Jehovah himself expects certain things from us and this brings him joy. We would not say that He is self serving. 

It is possible to serve Jehovah for purely selfish reasons, but that would not really be considered true worship. 

 

It all about motive and balance. If we are honest with ourselves, will know why we serve Jehovah.

[Cherie]

When Adam selfishly disobeyed Jehovah, he passed that selfishness on to us.

We naturally have that struggle....

 

 

[Qapla]

It looks like you used very good spiritual reasoning with this man. Part of his problem may be that he is using "secular" thinking. With that in mind, here is an illustration that may help.

 

We all need to work to pay our bills and make ends meet. Many people seek high-paying jobs that have them work long, hard hours in a dead-end job that they really don't like. However, they continue to work at that job since it pays their bills now and has a good retirement program.

 

However, there are some who work in a field they they really love. They go to work each day looking forward to their job. Should they quit their job and get one they hate because it is selfish to enjoy your job?

 

The same holds true of the God we worship. Serving Him should be something we enjoy - not something we only do out of compulsion.

[tekmantwo]

5 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I wonder if he feels guilty for getting any pleasure for serving God. It's sad how false religion has used guilt to control people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice

Thanks for the link...it was an interesting read.

 

We didn't really broach the guilty aspect, it seemed like he was refusing to worship because he had the self serve aspect going and I was trying to argue against that, trying to bring in the love for God that motivates us. It felt like he was rationalizing his lack of effort to worship,  trying to pin it on the 'entitled' attitude without really putting any effort into it.

We only had a couple of minutes so I wasn't really able to develope a good strategy and work with it.  

[tekmantwo]

4 hours ago, Bek said:

We are imperfect beings and as such it is difficult for us at times to serve God only out of love

Nice point...

I did try the 'do it out of love' angle but didn't have enough time...

 

 

4 hours ago, Bek said:

One way or another, an element of some selfishness will always be there due to our nature. You know that if you serve God, his laws will benefit you and there will also be a reward. You also know that if you do not serve God, there will be a punishment and you will want to avoid that by preserving yourself. So God is, in effect, telling us that it is not only about worshiping him, but also about benefiting us. There is a balance of interests

Good reasoning....thank you..

[tekmantwo]

3 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

Expecting to fulfill certain inherent desires and needs are the way Jehovah created us. 

Good point,  I didn't even think about that angle, as an inherent need. I should have, I have used Matt 5:3 to commend people if they claim to read their Bible.

 

3 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

Jehovah himself expects certain things from us and this brings him joy. We would not say that He is self serving

I had this first part in mind, I was going to attempt to tie it in with the 'Jesus wanted to please his Father' angle but didn't have time.

 

The second sentence is a bit controversial to me. Jehovah has a purpose for us and He works to accomplish His goals, it sorta feels like that could be called self serving, or fulfilling personal interests.. gonna have to cogitate on that one a bit.

 

Thanks for the thoughts...

3 hours ago, Cherie said:

When Adam selfishly disobeyed Jehovah, he passed that selfishness on to us.

We naturally have that struggle....

 

 

This is true. I didn't think about that at the time.

 

Thanks for the thought...

[tekmantwo]

2 hours ago, Qapla said:

It looks like you used very good spiritual reasoning with this man. Part of his problem may be that he is using "secular" thinking.

Thanks, but it didn't feel like I made any impact. The feedback that I sensed was that he was just being polite and wanted to get out of talking. I hope he thinks about what was said, it may develop into something good, somewhere down the line..

 

2 hours ago, Qapla said:

The same holds true of the God we worship. Serving Him should be something we enjoy - not something we only do out of compulsion

That's somewhat the line I was taking, I told him that I would be happy serving God even if there was no reward, that the association with Spiritual family and the knowledge that I was pleasing God would be enough for me.  Then I pointed out that there is a reward, and Jehovah indicates that He wants us took look forward to it, that's why He had certain verses recorded,  for our direction, to let us know it was ok to look at a reward. 

 

I don't really feel like I got through to him, only time will tell...

 

 

Thanks for the comment, I appreciate that...

[Pjdriver]

6 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

Jehovah has a purpose for us and He works to accomplish His goals, it sorta feels like that could be called self serving, or fulfilling personal interests.. gonna have to cogitate on that one a bit.

Well then, it depends on what you mean by self serving. Fulfilling certain personal desires can be right or it can be wrong. When does it cross that line to selfishness? Depends on motive for one thing.

But consider this; If any relationship does not have “give and take”, it’s not a healthy relationship. Each one rightly has certain expectations.

Anyone in a relationship that only takes, and rarely gives, is serving his own self interest. When both in a relationship give with love as the motive....that is not self serving.

 

That’s the kind of relationship we should have with Jehovah. Jehovah as our creator rightly expects our obedience. But Jehovah doesn’t just want our obediece, he wants our love.

The kind of person Jehovah is, and the hope of eternal paradise, is proof of Jehovah’s love and care for us. Our love for him should naturally motivate us to want to please him and “make his heart rejoice”.  The perfect relationship. Anything short of that is self serving. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Pjdriver