The downloadable research guide is going to add much to the current cycle of Bible reading

[TrueTomHarley]

The downloadable research guide is going to add much to the current cycle of Bible reading.

 

Already with Genesis 1:1 are links to articles observing that there is no reason to quarrel about the age of the earth. Scientists say 4 billion years? Let them. There is no objection, since “in the beginning” is BEFORE the creative days begin.

 

Nor is there any objection to a ‘big bang’ as a means to which God created the cosmos. Let scientists be scientists and Bible teachers be Bible teachers. Don’t manufacture conflicts until there are some.

 

Genesis 1;3 I have always loved: “and God’s active force [spirit] was moving about over the surface of the waters”—as though saying, “okay—ready, here—gimme something to do.”

 

And, technially, my prediction that the system will end yesterday since JWs have reached the end of their multi-year Bible reading cycle and it would be too inconveiniest to make them start all over again still holds, since I know of no mid-week meetings that falls on Monday.

 

[AH173]

54 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And, technially, my prediction that the system will end yesterday since JWs have reached the end of their multi-year Bible reading cycle and it would be too inconveiniest to make them start all over again still holds, since I know of no mid-week meetings that falls on Monday

I don't understand, I have a mid week meeting on Monday (today) and weekend meeting on Saturday. Not a good meeting schedule but doable for double Kingdom Hall. 

[Hope]

I know at least three congregations in my area who have Monday meetings 🤷‍♀️

[Dages]

I have my meeting tonight (monday)  

[Brother_Bliss]

Moved to Interchange of Encouragement and Worldwide brotherhood forum, since it has nothing to do with the 6 o'clock news 😉

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Dages said:

I have my meeting tonight (monday)  

Yeah, I’ve heard, Dages, thanks—from you and others. Seems that everyone knows about Monday meetings but me. There are none around here. 

[Life4u]

Here where I live are Kingdom Halls that have Monday night meetings. Especially when there are more than two congregations that meet at the same Hall. 

[Tortuga]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

since I know of no mid-week meetings that falls on Monday.

Our MWM is tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.....

[Qapla]

Another "Original Post" that I had to highlight to read ... since it is black text on black background when using dark mode ... most likely was not typed in with the default text  

 

 

Now, back on topic - our meeting is on Wed ... but I know of some who meet on Monday -

[TrueTomHarley]

Let scientists be scientists and Bible teachers be Bible teachers. Don’t squabble unless there is a reason to. 

 

That there is not a reason to in some battlegrounds is highlighted in the downloadable Research Guide to accompany the NWT Study Bible. Regarding Genesis 1:14 and the creative days, there is a link to a 9-year old Watchtower article:

 

“These are not 24-hour days but are epochs. On the first creative day, Jehovah caused light to begin to appear at the earth’s surface. That process would be completed when the sun and the moon later became discernible from the earth. (Gen 1:3,14) On the second day, the atmosphere began to be formed. (Gen 1:6) Earth then had water, light, and air but still no dry land. Early on the third creative day, Jehovah used his holy spirit to produce dry land, perhaps harnessing powerful geologic forces to push continents up out of the global sea. (Gen 1:9) There would be other astounding developments on the third day and during later creative periods.”

 

I made reference to this article in my own post, entitled “Epochs and Aeons,” after reading the Sean B Carroll book, “The Making of the Fittest - DNA and the Ultimate Forensic Record of Evolution.” You have to use the middle initial of Sean Carroll, a ‘B’, because there is another well-known contemporary scientist with an ‘M’ for a middle initial—this one specializing in physics. It’s surprising, but no more surprising than to consider that the public face of JW persecution in Russia—the first one to be sentenced (to six year’s imprisonment) has a surname (Christensen) that evokes both his Lord and his Lord’s profession.

 

It turns out that there is also a local broadcaster by that name—Sean Carroll—who has since moved to Syracuse. I followed them all on Twitter and introduced them to each other. They hit it off and began to talk baseball! Then I made some remark about the trinity and in what way the three men might foreshadow that. All three Seans fell silent at that. Who can blame them? They would have fallen more silent still had I tweeted the skit that I inserted in No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash: 

 

Crack! “Mike Behe hits a grounder to shortstop! Sean Carroll scoops it up and flips it to Sean Carroll at second base – one out! Sean Carroll fires it to Sean Carroll at first – double play! And the Denver Denyers lose to the Cincinnati Smarts! Jock, those Smarts have one helluva team this year. I almost think Sean Carroll will be named MVP.” “Yeah, and if not Sean Carroll, then maybe Sean Carroll! Or maybe even Sean Carroll!”

 

Oh, and I also like this link to a 2004 Awake with regard to verse 16: 

 

“How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day?” is the question. The answer is that the Hebrew word rendered “make” in 16 is not the same as the word for “create” in 1, 21, and 27. The bodies that are the source of light were created before any of those creative days began. Their light did not reach the earth, however, until the early impenetrable atmosphere began to clear. Not surprisingly, Genesis is written from the standpoint of someone on earth, not someone hovering in space.

 

[Tortuga]

20 hours ago, Bro Richard said:

Our MWM is tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.....

Still here...

We started considering the Old Genesis last night and it did not trigger a New Genesis....

[Thesauron]

Let scientists be scientists and Bible teachers be Bible teachers. Don’t squabble unless there is a reason to. 

 

That there is not a reason to in some battlegrounds is highlighted in the downloadable Research Guide to accompany the NWT Study Bible. Regarding Genesis 1:14 and the creative days, there is a link to a 9-year old Watchtower article:

 

“These are not 24-hour days but are epochs. On the first creative day, Jehovah caused light to begin to appear at the earth’s surface. That process would be completed when the sun and the moon later became discernible from the earth. (Gen 1:3,14) On the second day, the atmosphere began to be formed. (Gen 1:6) Earth then had water, light, and air but still no dry land. Early on the third creative day, Jehovah used his holy spirit to produce dry land, perhaps harnessing powerful geologic forces to push continents up out of the global sea. (Gen 1:9) There would be other astounding developments on the third day and during later creative periods.”

 

I made reference to this article in my own post, entitled “Epochs and Aeons,” after reading the Sean B Carroll book, “The Making of the Fittest - DNA and the Ultimate Forensic Record of Evolution.” You have to use the middle initial of Sean Carroll, a ‘B’, because there is another well-known contemporary scientist with an ‘M’ for a middle initial—this one specializing in physics. It’s surprising, but no more surprising than to consider that the public face of JW persecution in Russia—the first one to be sentenced (to six year’s imprisonment) has a surname (Christensen) that evokes both his Lord and his Lord’s profession.

 

It turns out that there is also a local broadcaster by that name—Sean Carroll—who has since moved to Syracuse. I followed them all on Twitter and introduced them to each other. They hit it off and began to talk baseball! Then I made some remark about the trinity and in what way the three men might foreshadow that. All three Seans fell silent at that. Who can blame them? They would have fallen more silent still had I tweeted the skit that I inserted in No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash: 

 

Crack! “Mike Behe hits a grounder to shortstop! Sean Carroll scoops it up and flips it to Sean Carroll at second base – one out! Sean Carroll fires it to Sean Carroll at first – double play! And the Denver Denyers lose to the Cincinnati Smarts! Jock, those Smarts have one helluva team this year. I almost think Sean Carroll will be named MVP.” “Yeah, and if not Sean Carroll, then maybe Sean Carroll! Or maybe even Sean Carroll!”

 

Oh, and I also like this link to a 2004 Awake with regard to verse 16: 

 

“How could God produce light on the first day if the luminaries were not made until the fourth day?” is the question. The answer is that the Hebrew word rendered “make” in 16 is not the same as the word for “create” in 1, 21, and 27. The bodies that are the source of light were created before any of those creative days began. Their light did not reach the earth, however, until the early impenetrable atmosphere began to clear. Not surprisingly, Genesis is written from the standpoint of someone on earth, not someone hovering in space.

 

If you leave the text formatting alone, your posts become a lot easier to read.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

If you leave the text formatting alone, your posts become a lot easier to read.

Okay. They look alright here, though. Do they not come through elsewhere?

[Thesauron]

Okay. They look alright here, though. Do they not come through elsewhere?

Yes, in some readers with certain settings the text just blends in with the background.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Bro Richard said:

Still here...

We started considering the Old Genesis last night and it did not trigger a New Genesis....

For years the Boston Red Sox were known to chant after every first game of the season, “Just wait until next year!”

Edited January 7, 2020 by TrueTomHarley

[Tortuga]

10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For years the Boston Red Sox were known to chant after every first game of the season, “Just wait until next year!”

I was in Boston when the "curse" was broken...

 

I'm not claiming that my presence had anything to do with it, however it was my first time in Boston and the Red Sox beat the NY Yankees in the playoffs, turning a critical point in Boston history.

 

Coincidence? You be the judge...

Edited January 7, 2020 by Bro Richard

[walkerkelton18]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:24 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Crack! “Mike Behe hits a grounder to shortstop! Sean Carroll scoops it up and flips it to Sean Carroll at second base – one out! Sean Carroll fires it to Sean Carroll at first – double play! And the Denver Denyers lose to the Cincinnati Smarts! Jock, those Smarts have one helluva team this year. I almost think Sean Carroll will be named MVP.” “Yeah, and if not Sean Carroll, then maybe Sean Carroll! Or maybe even Sean Carroll!”

🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 This cracked me up! I've read every book Mike Behe has put out, along with Stephen Meyer (looking forward to his new one, coming out in a few months time) and many other authors on the Intelligent Design Team (Think Discovery Institute & Reasons To Believe with Hugh Ross & team). I've read the other side as well, including a lot of Sean M. Carroll's work. Never read anything by Sean B. Carroll though 😂

 

Anyway, I love you're writing style, I've read two of your books and portions of the others, plus many, many blog posts, I always have a good laugh, am prompted to think deeply, and I almost always come away with a new perspective. I'd only debate Mike Behe's latest being a grounder 😉🤺

 

I like his suggestion that the Biblical Kinds are Roughly Equivalent to Families. (Canidae (dogs, wolves, foxes), Felidae (cats), Mephitidae (skunks), and Ursidae (bears), ect.) 

 

Or in some cases at the level of Genus, or something in-between the two, it's all a little unsure 🤷‍♂️ 

 

I think that was discussed most in-depth in his 2007 work, "Edge of Evolution", it may also be discussed in his most recent 2019 work "Darwin Devolves" I can't remember if it was mentioned or not 🤔. 

 

In any case, the mechanisms involved have never been proven to have the power necessary to go any further than that, nor are there any indications of that ever being possible, thus providing further evidence that the Bible is strongly grounded in science when it simply states in Genesis Chapter 1:

 

"20 Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”  21 And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.  22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.”  23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.  25 And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good"

On 1/7/2020 at 12:24 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

I made reference to this article in my own post, entitled “Epochs and Aeons,” after reading the Sean B Carroll book, “The Making of the Fittest - DNA and the Ultimate Forensic Record of Evolution.”

Also, I remember reading this post. It was a good one. 👌🏼 

 

I've seen much of this topic summed up in an equation before: 

 

"The Drake equation begins with a running start. What if instead of asking how many cosmic neighbors we have, we ask a much more fundamental question: If God had no role in the origin of life, what are the odds that any intelligent civilizations (including ours) would ever exist? In other words, what is the probability that intelligent life forms would arise through undirected processes? We can follow Drake's lead and use math to suggest an answer to this question. Let's call our equation the Adam Equation." 

 

 

"The Adam Equation F,Adam = fU × fA × fP× fL × fC × fI where F,Adam is the probability that intelligent living beings are here by chance.

fU is the probability that the universe would have begun without God.

fA is the probability that the right laws of nature result without God.

fp is the probability of obtaining a suitable planet without God.

fL is the probability that life arises from non-living material without God.

fC is the probability that complex life develops without God.

fI is the probability that intelligent, advanced life develops without God."

 

"Scientists who insist on a naturalistic origin of the universe remind one of the White Queen from Wonderland. When Alice told the Queen it was not possible to believe in impossible things, the Queen answered, “I daresay you haven't had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”"

 

"To believe in naturalistic origins of life and the universe, one must join the White Queen and have faith in impossible things; six impossible things, in fact:

Impossibilities in Philosophy: The Origin of the Universe

Impossibilities in Physics: A Goldilocks Universe

Impossibilities in Astronomy: An Exceptional Earth

Impossibilities in Chemistry: The Origin of Life

Impossibilities in Biochemistry: The Complexity of Life

Impossibilities in Anthropology: The Image of God" 

 

Anyways, Thanks for your work bro! With Christian Love, YB Kelton! 😎👊🏻 

[TrueTomHarley]

15 hours ago, walkerkelton18 said:

I'd only debate Mike Behe's latest being a grounder 😉🤺

Excellent point. Thanks

[Luigi62]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:20 AM, AH173 said:

I don't understand, I have a mid week meeting on Monday (today) and weekend meeting on Saturday. Not a good meeting schedule but doable for double Kingdom Hall. 

NO different than Sundays and Tuesdays

[AH173]

1 hour ago, Luigi62 said:

NO different than Sundays and Tuesdays

On a weekly calendar it would seem so. But Monday being a first day of work its tough. I've done Sunday , Tuesday and Thursday for book study and that was fine with me in the past.

 

It's that Monday thing. Just as with the WT study for the week Holy spirit will help get us over any problems.