Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Ahuvah]

4 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Great tribulation begins with the destruction of false religion.  Armageddon is the end of the great tribulation. Armageddon is not a separate event. 

It now begins with the nations relinquishing power to the UN who, in turn, destroys religion.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 minute ago, Ahuvah said:

It now begins with the nations relinquishing power to the UN who, in turn, destroys religion.

 

I think the GT still starts with the destruction of BtG, we just have one more lead up now in addition to the cry of P&S.

[Ahuvah]

17 hours ago, Richie said:

I think losing the access to global strategic locations like Syria follows the gradual collapse of global power of the KOTN, NATO will become happy seeing this. Let us watch... 

The KOTN though is one of the main players of the coalition of Gog of Magog  who rises up against Jehovah’s people just before the end of the GT at Armageddon.  So they won't collapse before then.

[Ahuvah]

3 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I think the GT still starts with the destruction of BtG, we just have one more lead up now in addition to the cry of P&S.

All that has changed with the AM, Jehovah stepping in with the one thought is now the marker we are looking for, destruction of BTG can't happen until all nations give their power to the UN so they find their teeth and do Jehovahs bidding. 

Edited December 9 by Ahuvah

[Jwanon]

9 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

But it's the UN that removes religion, not the nations. Which is why I was confused,

 

The nations will relinquish their powers to the UN

[Ahuvah]

Just now, Jwanon said:

 

The nations will relinquish their powers to the UN

Yes because Jehovah has put that one thought into them, then the UN then destroys BTG. Correct.

[LeolaRootStew]

Just now, Ahuvah said:

All thar has changed with the AM, Jehovah stepping in with the one thought is now the marker we are looking for, destruction of BTG can't happen until all nations give their power to the UN so they find their teeth and do Jehovahs bidding. 

 

I understand that, but even with our old understanding we didn't say P&S was the start of the GT, it was the destruction of religion that started the GT. That hasn't changed, we just have one more marker before the start to give us a heads up.

[Ahuvah]

3 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I understand that, but even with our old understanding we didn't say P&S was the start of the GT, it was the destruction of religion that started the GT. That hasn't changed, we just have one more marker before the start to give us a heads up.

I'm not talking about P & S, the brothers have been very quiet  on that.. I'm talking about the GT, and that starts with Jehovah coming in with the one thought.  The GT starts with Jehovah. We have always thought that P& S was a prequel to the GT, with no input by Jehovah. 

Now, I'm wondering if P & S may happen AFTER the UN gains power from the nations, this sentence though is speculation, the rest is not.

[LeolaRootStew]

2 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

I'm not talking about P & S, the brothers have been very quiet  on that.. I'm talking about the GT, and that starts with Jehovah coming in with the one thought.  The GT starts with Jehovah. We have always thought that P& S was a prequel to the GT, with no input by Jehovah. 

Now, I'm wondering if P & S may happen AFTER the UN gains power from the nations, this sentence though is speculation, the rest is not.

 

I don't think you're hearing me.

 

Old understanding: GT starts with the destruction of BtG

Current understanding: GT starts with the destruction of BtG

 

The stuff with the UN and P&S are both preludes. The GT officially starts with the destruction of BtG.

 

The AM:

 

Quote

And if you turn with me this
time, please, to Revelation chapter 17, this is one of the chapters
that describes the destruction of false religion, or in other words,
when the great tribulation starts.

 

[Doug]

36 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

 We have always thought that P& S was a prequel to the GT, with no input by Jehovah. 

Now, I'm wondering if P & S may happen AFTER the UN gains power from the nations, this sentence though is speculation, the rest is not.

 

This is a subtle point.  We used to anticipate the cry of P&S as the next thing.  But that cry of P&S actually originates with the devil.  It's his misleading propaganda. Demon-inspired propaganda will fill the earth, misleading most.

 

Now, the pieces fit together much better.  Jehovah causes the nations to empower the UN to address certain problems, afterward, Satan fills the earth with deceptive propaganda to mislead most. Perhaps the propaganda will be that the now empowered UN will  lead to P&S, like the nations have finally found the solution that has eluded them.

[Dustparticle]

18 minutes ago, Doug said:

This is a subtle point.  We used to anticipate the cry of P&S as the next thing.  But that cry of P&S actually originates with the devil.  It's his misleading propaganda. Demon-inspired propaganda will fill the earth, misleading most.

 

 

Revelation 16:13,14.

[Doug]

15 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

 

Revelation 16:13,14.

 

"They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty".

 

Doesn't that just make sense that it would follow the nations empowering the UN ?  It would be the demons last act of scorched earth, mass destruction.

[New World Explorer]

6 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

 For two things for sure,  Israel and USA are already bombing  certain areas in Syria so it will not get way out of control. Crazy. Now people need to worry about daily foods and necessities for a while. Sad,

Yep, they are bombing ISIS sites and Israel bombed chemical weapons sites to prevent Isis and radical Islamist to take advantage from chaos and re group. US has 900 soldiers stationed in Syria for the purpose of destroying Isis groups and its weapons. 

[Nom Chompsky]

On 12/6/2024 at 3:38 PM, Tortuga said:

 

I want to comment here from a psychological perspective of the widespread support for maga. Please note this is not political commentary. 

 

Dr. Janja Lalich explained during an interview that there is a "closed mindedness and Us verses Them thinking" that is promoted that combined with an increase in hate and violence during the first term gave people a "sort of license to act out."

 

There are several psychological factors at play but the one I want to highlight is the charismatic relationship with an authoritarian leader. She continues, "People misunderstand the concept of charisma and they believe that it's something inherent in an individual, that you're born with it or something. But charisma is actually a social relationship. Once you have determined that someone is charismatic and you grant them that title, then they have power over you, because obviously if you think someone is charismatic, you think they're special in some way. So that becomes a relationship with an imbalance of power, right? So that starts right from the get go. And then the more you believe that and the more authoritarian the person is so that they are convincing you that they have all the answers and that you shouldn't challenge and you shouldn’t question, you should just be 100% devoted to this person and follow everything they say, your whole mindset starts to change about the world. Your worldview shifts. And within that, your sense of morality shifts so that you now take on morality—or the immorality—of the leader."

 

This results in people feeling as if their lives are given meaning and create an attachment so powerful where they can't imagine life outside of their group and can't see any other way to live other than being loyal to this person and following whatever is happening. It becomes a psychological trap that victims are often unaware of being subject to.

[Ahuvah]

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

don't think you're hearing me.

 

Old understanding: GT starts with the destruction of BtG

Current understanding: GT starts with the destruction of BtG

 

The stuff with the UN and P&S are both preludes. The GT officially starts with the destruction of BtG.

 

The AM:

I'm hearing you. And I agree with old understanding.

And I agree, still it's a sign that the Great Tribulation has begun, but now there's a clarified sign that will take place just prior to the fall of BTG. When we see this we know the GT has started. We will see two things before the world does. See below. But the world won't realize it until religion is done away with and thus chaos ensues.

 

From the AM Brother Jackson's talk (verbatim) Timestamp 1:12:38 ... the emphazied words are mine.

 

"Now, the second subject, we'd like to talk about, is our view with regard the start of the tribulation with the destruction of Babylon the Great.

When we look through the scriptures in Revelation chapter 16, what does it tell us? 

That the waters will gradually dry up. Yes, churches are losing support in some countries, for example Europe. It wasn't very long ago that most nations in Europe were very religious. But now, people are turning their backs on religion.

But at the same time, when we look at Africa, and South America, we see that religion still has a strong influence.

So now what could that little voice in our minds be saying? "Well, yeah, we see it, it's going in the right direction, but maybe not just yet. We've got a little bit more time left." 

But, again, we need to remember what the Scriptures tell us. And if you turn with me, this time, please to Revelation chapter 17, this is one of the chapters that describes the destruction of false religion, or in other words when the Great Tribulation starts. So let's read Revelation 17:17 and note please, what it tells us: "For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished."

Now, what is this one thought?  Well, up until now, we've said the "one thought" we've said is their desire to turn on false religion. And we can understand that, because the context is talking about the destruction of false religion. But you see, of you look back at that verse, what is the 'one thought'? 

Now, this means we have to adjust our understanding another change, what does it say? The 'one thought' refers to the nations being willing to hand over power, their political power to the scarlet-colored wild beast, the United Nations. Let me repeat it, because you are in shock now and you need to write this down. OK. The 'one thought' refers to the nati9ns being willing to hand over power to the United Nations.

Now, why is that exciting? Well, the fact that nations will eventually turn on religion isn't really that surprising is it? Gradually, we've seen that happening and we say, 'Oh yes. We see which way this is going.' But what about the nations empowering the United Nations - handing over their personal political power - so the United Nations has more power,  it has teeth as it were. At the moment, it's like a teeth less, toothless organization, isn't it? That seems unbelievable. No nation does that. But, what is it that happens? It is an act of God. Jehovah puts that 'one thought' into the minds of the nations.

Yes, they will empower the United Nations so that the United Nations will be in the position to take action against false religion.

Now, this adjustment in our understanding also means we have to adjust our understanding of verses 12 and 13. So, if you are in Revelation 17, please, let's look at verses 12 and 13: "The ten horns that you saw, mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast."

 

So, up to now, we've assumed, those "ten kings" which represent all the political powers and governments in the world, at this moment that they did this during the 'last days' by supporting, first of all  The League of Nations and then the United Nations. 

But now, what do we understand this to be? Seeing we understand verse 17? Well, there will come a time when all political powers on earth, which includes many who have never been part of the seven world powers, they will see that they need to collectively pool their power by giving it to the United Nations to try and solve some of the problems of the world. And they will rule, notice what does it say? For "one hour" -  just a short period of time. So, this newly empowered United Nations, from that time on, will rule collectively for a short time, but it will enable them to destroy false religion and fight against Jesus and Jehovah’s people. Now, isn't that exciting?

But, now we are back to our subject again, you see, gradually things happen. So we might say. "Well yes, gradually, I see Babylon the Great is losing influence in some places - maybe not yet - But don't expect you'll see governments gradually wanting to give over power. They won't want to do that. It takes an act of God! Jehovah will put it "into their hearts." *This will occur with suddenness. Yes, then the Great Tribulation will start - a sudden change, not something that happens gradually. 

So, what have we learned in our discussion? Well yes, some things change gradually. But, brothers and sisters, remember there are some sudden things that are about to occur.

Let's remember the two things as a reminder. 

First of all, the remaining anointed ones will suddenly be taken to heaven while they are still very active.

The second one Jehovah will suddenly move the nations to give their political power to the United Nations.

So what's the takeaway? 

 Don't be complacent. Don't think "Oh this is going to gradually change." No, some things won't gradually change. They will occur suddenly as acts of God! So, be ready and don't be surprised by sudden change!

 

*Please note that the GT begins at this point which quickly goes on to the demise of BBTG

1 hour ago, Doug said:

 

This is a subtle point.  We used to anticipate the cry of P&S as the next thing.  But that cry of P&S actually originates with the devil.  It's his misleading propaganda. Demon-inspired propaganda will fill the earth, misleading most.

 

Now, the pieces fit together much better.  Jehovah causes the nations to empower the UN to address certain problems, afterward, Satan fills the earth with deceptive propaganda to mislead most. Perhaps the propaganda will be that the now empowered UN will  lead to P&S, like the nations have finally found the solution that has eluded them.

Totally agree

[Ahuvah]

23 minutes ago, Doug said:

Doesn't that just make sense that it would follow the nations empowering the UN ?  It would be the demons last act of scorched earth, mass destruction.

Yes this makes perfect sense, but we need to mix in that at this point Jehovah has Gog of Magog with a hook in its jaws and it's being dragged to Armageddon. So yes, they will actions by Satan and his supporters, but this time, a planned action.

[New World Explorer]

2 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

But it's the UN that removes religion, not the nations. Which is why I was confused,

UN is made up of nations. 

[Ahuvah]

1 minute ago, New World Explorer said:

UN is made up of nations. 

Yes currently, but when Jehovah empowers them they will receive authority from ALL nations, not just the ones that are currently part of the UN.

[Ahuvah]

Just now, Ahuvah said:

Yes currently, but when Jehovah empowers them they will receive authority from ALL nations, not just the ones that are currently part of the UN.

 Rehearing the AM talk, I've worked out how it all ties in. Because of the chronic situation in the earth, the Nations will bemoved by Jehovah to use the UN to solve the problems. (Sounds like an attempt at peace and security to me). So yes, the worse things get now, the more the nations will need the control of a single entity.

[Ludwika]

19 minutes ago, Nom Chompsky said:

And within that, your sense of morality shifts so that you now take on morality—or the immorality—of the leader.

That's exactly what happened to those who supported Hitler. 

[LeolaRootStew]

2 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

Please note that the GT begins at this point which quickly goes on to the demise of BBTG

 

Disagree. It is just listing 2 things that will happen suddenly (UN gaining power and the start of the GT by means of BtG being destroyed), it does not conflate them. Those are separate events. Maybe they will clarify with an update.

[SUNRAY]

There is an update in the JW Library app  to the Dec. Broadcast of the first part of the AM..does anyone know what the update is?

[Nom Chompsky]

15 minutes ago, SUNRAY said:

There is an update in the JW Library app  to the Dec. Broadcast of the first part of the AM..does anyone know what the update is?

I don't think its anything new other than what was presented at the annual meeting which is appt. of 2 new gb members; Jody Jedele and Jacob Rumph.

 

Age to get into bethel is lowered to 18 (previously 19) and age to attend SKE lowered to 21 (previously 25 *I THINK*)

 

There was some commentary on the increase in number of anointed and more younger people getting anointed. The increase is supposed to continue then drop off. There was also the update about nations handing over political power to the UN. Folks on this thread have already discussed this in detail much better than I can so I won't expound on that here.

 

Also, they now sell beard butter at bethel commissary. I had to include

[Ahuvah]

27 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Disagree. It is just listing 2 things that will happen suddenly (UN gaining power and the start of the GT by means of BtG being destroyed), it does not conflate them. Those are separate events. Maybe they will clarify with an update.

But the destroying of bbtg is done by the newly empowered UN, that comes first.

[Nom Chompsky]

27 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Disagree. It is just listing 2 things that will happen suddenly (UN gaining power and the start of the GT by means of BtG being destroyed), it does not conflate them. Those are separate events. Maybe they will clarify with an update.

 What is BtG? I'm drawing a blank.