Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I have a side point I'd like to address. From what I understand, it says that the one who makes the proclamation is the one who will be destroyed. If that's true, and we know that religion will be destroyed, then shouldn't we expect the ccry of P&S to come from religion? Maybe I have an old understanding, so please correct me. Does this scripture imply that "they" and "them" are the same group or a different group?

 

Im going to say the same group, but I'm going to ask why would this be limited to some small group? 

 

Perhaps it's not correct to think this refers to only a limited number of ones who will be destroyed at Armageddon. All those who oppose Jehovah will be destroyed.  While the destruction begins with false religion, it is not limited to just this small subset of the entire group that stands in opposition to Jehovah. The Merchants and the Kings will also be destroyed. 

 

Realistically everyone will be saying Peace and Security. Every part of Satan's system will be wrapped up in the high and riding this wave. It's not like the Kings, or nations are going to resist Peace and Security. It's not like False Religion could promote Peace and Security if the Governments were not pushing it. It's not like the Merchants are going to to tell people the idea is false, hollow, and promoted by Satan. 

[Ahuvah]

12 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Realistically everyone will be saying Peace and Security. Every part of Satan's system will be wrapped up in the high and riding this wave. It's not like the Kings, or nations are going to resist Peace and Security. It's not like False Religion could promote Peace and Security if the Governments were not pushing it. It's not like the Merchants are going to to tell people the idea is false, hollow, and promoted by Satan. 

This. If you check Brother Jackson's timeline when the Ezekiel book came out ... he said something like P & S PERHAPS spearheaded by religion or at least with their urging, but it's all those opposed Jehovah who go on to declare/proclaim P & S.  And ultimately,  once BBTG is out of the way, their demise is next.

[Nom Chompsky]

8 hours ago, Ludwika said:

Babylon the Great 😊

How could I forget?? SMH. When I was 3/4, I got teased by an older kid for what felt like an entire day for pronouncing it "baby-lawn the great". I went to book study thinking I would impress everyone.  

[Nom Chompsky]

2 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

This. If you check Brother Jackson's timeline when the Ezekiel book came out ... he said something like P & S PERHAPS spearheaded by religion or at least with their urging, but it's all those opposed Jehovah who go on to declare/proclaim P & S.  And ultimately,  once BBTG is out of the way, their demise is next.

I hope I'm not mischaracterizing what you're saying (and please correct me if I do) but I wanted to expound on this; peace and security has never been spearheaded by religion. Quite the opposite; messages of doom and gloom. 

 

So if its spearheaded by religion, it would represent a complete pivot from historical stances. If anything, religion has been a purveyor and perpetrator of violence, division, bigotry, and inequality. Think the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Manifest Destiny, Reconquista, Ottoman Wars, the Arab-Byzantine Wars, burning of women at the stake. All throughout history, I could go on and on and on. It's not the cause of ALL wars, but certainly too many. One war is too many IMO but I digress.

 

Anyway, it would be interesting to see what that looks like since its so hard for my brain to envision religion pivoting so harshly. Such an abrupt u-turn would no doubt mean an unmistakable sign. I wish I could imagine what it would look like but my creativity is lacking at the moment. I'm open to ideas though.

[Ahuvah]

1 hour ago, Nom Chompsky said:

I hope I'm not mischaracterizing what you're saying (and please correct me if I do) but I wanted to expound on this; peace and security has never been spearheaded by religion. Quite the opposite; messages of doom and gloom. 

 

So if its spearheaded by religion, it would represent a complete pivot from historical stances. If anything, religion has been a purveyor and perpetrator of violence, division, bigotry, and inequality. Think the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Manifest Destiny, Reconquista, Ottoman Wars, the Arab-Byzantine Wars, burning of women at the stake. All throughout history, I could go on and on and on. It's not the cause of ALL wars, but certainly too many. One war is too many IMO but I digress.

 

Anyway, it would be interesting to see what that looks like since its so hard for my brain to envision religion pivoting so harshly. Such an abrupt u-turn would no doubt mean an unmistakable sign. I wish I could imagine what it would look like but my creativity is lacking at the moment. I'm open to ideas though.

Just quoting from the outline of the talk by Brother Jackson, my brother. 

Here at: https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb_201901_4_VIDEO

Timestamp: 18:13

Here are the three pictures below with captions that imply that False Religion will have a part in declaring a measure of Peace and Security.  I admit spearheading might be a  bit sharp (like the pun?)... but they are certainly in the mix, or at least they were. Heard nothing to counter that yet.

 

 

Edited December 10 by Ahuvah

[Sofia]

1 hour ago, Ahuvah said:

Just quoting from the outline of the talk by Brother Jackson, my brother. 

Here at: https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=pub-jwb_201901_4_VIDEO

Timestamp: 18:13

Here are the three pictures below with captions that imply that False Religion will have a part in declaring a measure of Peace and Security.  I admit spearheading might be a  bit sharp (like the pun?)... but they are certainly in the mix, or at least they were. Heard nothing to counter that yet.

 

 

Here:

 

*** w19 September pp. 9-10 par. 8 Armageddon Is Good News! ***
8 That will be the foretold proclamation of “peace and security.” Why will world leaders say that? Will religious leaders participate? Possibly. Nevertheless, the proclamation will be just another demon-inspired lie. But this lie will be especially dangerous because it will give people a false sense of security just before the greatest tribulation in human history begins. Yes, “sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman.” What about Jehovah’s loyal servants? They may be surprised by the sudden start of Jehovah’s day, but they will not be caught off guard.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2019561&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=15

 

*** kr chap. 21 p. 222 par. 3 God’s Kingdom Removes Its Enemies ***
3 Proclaiming peace. In writing to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul described the first development that we are awaiting. (Read 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 3.) In this letter Paul mentions “Jehovah’s day,” which will begin with the attack on “Babylon the Great.” (Rev. 17:5) However, just before Jehovah’s day begins, nations will be saying, “Peace and security!” This expression may refer to one pronouncement or to a series of notable statements. Will religious leaders be involved? Since they are part of the world, they will possibly join the nations in saying, “There is peace!” (Jer. 6:14; 23:16, 17; Rev. 17:1, 2) This proclaiming of peace and security will signal that the day of Jehovah is about to begin. Enemies of God’s Kingdom “will by no means escape.”
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1102014263&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=8

[Sofia]

On 12/9/2024 at 12:41 AM, New World Explorer said:

Please check again, Russia has port in Libya as well so even if they loose Syria it does not cut them off from Mediterranean access. 

 

[Ahuvah]

35 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Here:

 

*** w19 September pp. 9-10 par. 8 Armageddon Is Good News! ***
8 That will be the foretold proclamation of “peace and security.” Why will world leaders say that? Will religious leaders participate? Possibly. Nevertheless, the proclamation will be just another demon-inspired lie. But this lie will be especially dangerous because it will give people a false sense of security just before the greatest tribulation in human history begins. Yes, “sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman.” What about Jehovah’s loyal servants? They may be surprised by the sudden start of Jehovah’s day, but they will not be caught off guard.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2019561&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=15

 

*** kr chap. 21 p. 222 par. 3 God’s Kingdom Removes Its Enemies ***
3 Proclaiming peace. In writing to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul described the first development that we are awaiting. (Read 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 3.) In this letter Paul mentions “Jehovah’s day,” which will begin with the attack on “Babylon the Great.” (Rev. 17:5) However, just before Jehovah’s day begins, nations will be saying, “Peace and security!” This expression may refer to one pronouncement or to a series of notable statements. Will religious leaders be involved? Since they are part of the world, they will possibly join the nations in saying, “There is peace!” (Jer. 6:14; 23:16, 17; Rev. 17:1, 2) This proclaiming of peace and security will signal that the day of Jehovah is about to begin. Enemies of God’s Kingdom “will by no means escape.”
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1102014263&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=8

Both of those articles precede the 2019 AM. Brother Jackson seemed to be more direct they may cause it. But neither is it certain of course.

Edited December 10 by Ahuvah

[jps]

4 hours ago, Nom Chompsky said:

How could I forget?? SMH. When I was 3/4, I got teased by an older kid for what felt like an entire day for pronouncing it "baby-lawn the great". I went to book study thinking I would impress everyone.  

[Sofia]

The feeling I have …

just a feeling after this anual meeting is that the future developments may happen a bit differently than expected and written in our publications.

Now I read Bible prophecy again over and over and things seem a bit different.

Not that things won’t happen. Its just the sequence of events seem a bit different now. 

I keep that opinion to my self but I can say that now I feel MORE like the Great Tribulation can start ANYTIME.

 

Edited December 10 by Sofia

[Áine]

2 minutes ago, Sofia said:

The feeling I have …

just a feeling after this anual meeting is that the future developments may happen a bit differently than expected and written in our publications.

Now I read Bible prophecy again over and over and things seem a bit different.

Not that things won’t happen. Its just the sequence of events seem a bit different now. 

I keep that opinion to my self but I can say that now I feel MORE like the Great Tribulation can start ANYTIME.

 

Exactly, I’ve just listened to that talk yet again and towards the end he says twice that it will be the nations giving their power to the UN in order to give it teeth that will cause the destruction of BTG that will signal the start of the GT

 what is interesting to me is that nowhere in this talk does he mention peace and security but instead he talks about sudden changes… which leads me to think that these events will happen so fast that they may be slightly out of sync with what we’ve always thought.. 

 

Events will happen on top of each other… whichever way it is doesn’t really matter at all

 

I also noted that those who decide to take sides with Jehovah at that time will be like the Egyptians and have to make a snap decision

 

 I honestly feel that we don’t have long to wait now 

[Sofia]

4 minutes ago, Áine said:

Events will happen on top of each other… whichever way it is doesn’t really matter at all

Exactly 

[Ric]

I really enjoyed the new insights from the annual meeting and also the explanation from everyone on this site commenting on these new adjustments in understanding of chapter 17 of Revelation. We hope that these new insights will reveal to us even more secrets that are sealed until the end time, as prophesied in the last chapter of Daniel. We live in truly exciting times. It may be that now the light will shine more brightly on other texts such as Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14, Daniel 11:31 and 12:11. Jesus called much attention to the sign of the emergence of the DISGUSTING thing that CAUSES desolation, saying that the reader needed to use discernment. IN WHAT SENSE would the disgusting thing that CAUSES DESOLATION be ESTABLISHED? Does this establishment, prophesied by Jesus and Daniel, refer ONLY to the CREATION of the LEAGUE OF NATIONS in 1920 and the UN in 1945?  Could it be that, according to this new understanding, in certain verses that mention the ESTABLISHMENT of this DISGUSTING thing, it could be applied to the moment when she will receive the power of the 10 kings and will act as the EIGHTH KING for one hour? After all, will it not be only at that moment when she is REVITALIZED and clothed with power that she will be able to, in fact, CAUSE THE DESOLATION of Babylon the Great?

[Sweet Tooth]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

I keep that opinion to my self but I can say that now I feel MORE like the Great Tribulation can start ANYTIME.

And let us not forget that to start the GT, all the remaining genuine anointed ones needs to be permanently sealed as a GROUP for the winds of destructions to be released. So yes, it will be instantly, suddenly. 
 

“Amid these dire circumstances, John received an exciting prophetic vision. In it, angels are told to hold back the destructive winds of the great tribulation until the final sealing of a group of slaves”. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/

 

So it appears that empowering the UN and the Final Sealing will happen simultaneously. 

 

 

[Ric]

It is also interesting that Jesus mentioned in a parable that some workers (anointed ones) would be chosen AROUND the eleventh hour. This means that they would work for only about one hour.
As already published in The Watchtower, perhaps this is why in recent years, especially since 2007, the number of anointed ones has been increasing significantly.
It is as if we were, from that year on, in the period that Jesus called AROUND THE ELEVENTH HOUR.
Although keeping track of the number of anointed ones was not recommended at the last annual meeting, it is interesting to observe whether, when the UN becomes the EIGHTH KING for one hour, the number of anointed ones begins to decrease, implying that those who were chosen in this symbolic ELEVENTH HOUR will work for only one hour, that is, during the TWELFTH HOUR, which could correspond to the ONE HOUR of the UN.
It seems logical to conclude that, in order for the FINAL sealing mentioned in Revelation 7:3 to be completed, the initial sealing must have been completed A LITTLE BEFORE.
There would therefore be a short period of time in which these last called ones would work symbolically in the vineyard. This period could, PERHAPS, correspond to the LAST HOUR, also called the ONE HOUR of the UN, which should begin from when the UN receives full powers and becomes the Eighth King until it finishes this term and, together with the 10 kings, faces the King of Kings, right after the beginning of Gog's attack and the gathering of the chosen ones.

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

And let us not forget that to start the GT, all the remaining genuine anointed ones needs to be permanently sealed as a GROUP for the winds of destructions to be released. So yes, it will be instantly, suddenly. 
 

“Amid these dire circumstances, John received an exciting prophetic vision. In it, angels are told to hold back the destructive winds of the great tribulation until the final sealing of a group of slaves”. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-september-2019/great-crowd/

 

So it appears that empowering the UN and the Final Sealing will happen simultaneously. 

 

 

We have a specific topic about the final sealing 😃

Its been quiet for some time now

i guess it’s something most anointed don’t talk about…

but this is a fact. Untill all anointed get their final sealing there won’t be any GT

[Sofia]

4 hours ago, Ric said:

Daniel 11:31 and 12:11.

These verses have already been fulfilled 

(the stablishment of UN was parallel to a pause in the constant feature

that WONT happen again).

When the nations relinquish their power to UN, Jehovah’s people will be super busy in the preaching work.

[Doug]

I'm interested in what sort of "signs" the devil will come up with Rev. 16:14.  Whatever he is able / allowed to do will bolster the demon-inspired propaganda that will fill the earth.

[Nom Chompsky]

36 minutes ago, Doug said:

I'm interested in what sort of "signs" the devil will come up with Rev. 16:14.  Whatever he is able / allowed to do will bolster the demon-inspired propaganda that will fill the earth.

 

Diddy becoming president. Now some may say that's preposterous but if a reality tv guy with zero relevant credentials and a pretty poor criminal record did it, I mean, is it really that out of the question?

[Old]

16 hours ago, Shawnster said:

 

Realistically everyone will be saying Peace and Security. ...

Where have I heard that before? If everyone will be saying it, no need for a proclamation.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

I'm interested in what sort of "signs" the devil will come up with Rev. 16:14.  Whatever he is able / allowed to do will bolster the demon-inspired propaganda that will fill the earth.

 

Maybe they'll convince people that there is an alien invasion and that's why they are seeing weird things in the sky and why they need to fight back.

[sully313]

1 hour ago, Old said:

Where have I heard that before? If everyone will be saying it, no need for a proclamation.

In this "show off" world, a united belief in peace will not stop mankind from taking the time to pat themselves on the back and praising themselves and what they think theyve done good

[JennyM]

11 hours ago, Sofia said:

 

I keep that opinion to my self but I can say that now I feel MORE like the Great Tribulation can start ANYTIME.

 

I dont want to keep my expectation high. but keeping on watch is important. 

 

"postponed expectation makes the heart sick" 

 

Nevertheless, its a food at the proper time. 

 

 

[Dustparticle]

Interesting article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/opinion-russia-decline-accelerates-thanks-170000102.html

[Richie]

1 minute ago, Dustparticle said:

Interesting article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/opinion-russia-decline-accelerates-thanks-170000102.html

It's already expected but its future fight might not be directly to US.