Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[JennyM]

3 hours ago, Richie said:

This is so interesting:
 - Ukraine-Russian War > UN 5 Security Councils are divided.
 - Israel-Palestinian War > UN 5 Security Councils are in unison for Two-State Solution

 

   From my personal Bible study, Ukaine-Russian War will end up to NATO confrontation (in later times, KOTS will not give much interest on this conflict) even during Great Tribulation and prior to Armaggedon. Even Putin will be out of the office in the future, Russia will be still a great threat to the surrounding EU nations or NATO members.

 

   Ironically, on the Palestinian-Israel War. All contradicting nations (KOTN & KOTS) are united and push Israel to accept the Two-State Solution. Actually, this war has no indication in the Bible prophecy but still part of general quote. 

 

   Interestingly, 1 Thes. 5:3 never quotes how this prophecy be initiated. But, it sounds they are united in one accord.

thank you for thinking about this for me.  Its hard to think, you know. 

[Derrick_m]

4 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Will they be aware that they are sealed? I was under the impression they wouldn't be.

Read 2 Tim 4:6-8. Once the anointed are sealed, they will rejoice to know their releasing is imminent. 

[Dolce vita]

5 hours ago, bagwell1987 said:

🤭 Talk to the hand😅😅 You 80's girl you 😆

I love you Miss Bea

Love her toooooooo

[Sweet Tooth]

13 minutes ago, Dages said:

and we will too, at the same time.

I agree. So there are unknown unknowns that He will reveal at the “proper time”. (Matt 24:45)

Daniel 2:22 says: deep and  hidden things. 

[Sofia]

7 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

• Memorial Partakers Worldwide: 22,312

@SofiaWill they receive the Final Sealing as a group or one at a time? 

I believe it will be at once in a short period of time. 
it’s not clarified by the GB. Maybe they don’t know how it will be.

in my opinion ( this is a personal opinion) it may happen during a 24h period on a memorial celebration.

[Sofia]

7 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

Will they be aware that they are sealed? I was under the impression they wouldn't be.

I believe they will 

The sealing is a confirmation by the Holy Spirit they are aproved to go to Heaven. Since they feel that when they are chosen I think that they will feel the sealing. It’s impossible not to feel the Holy Spirit. 
The question is: will WE know? Will GB tell us?

 

my opinion ( this is my opinion only):

back in Jesus baptism he felt the Holy Spirit. Yet Jehovah made it “visible” as a dove for the benefit of John. He knew what was happening 

in Pentecost 120 felt the Holy Spirit. Yet Jehovah made it visible as fire tongues for the benefit of all involved. They knew all had received power.

based in this… I expect we may know that they have received the final sealing and will tell us GT is about to happen 

[Sofia]

6 hours ago, Richie said:

Ironically, on the Palestinian-Israel War. All contradicting nations (KOTN & KOTS) are united and push Israel to accept the Two-State Solution. Actually, this war has no indication in the Bible prophecy but still part of general quote. 

 

   Interestingly, 1 Thes. 5:3 never quotes how this prophecy be initiated. But, it sounds they are united in one accord.

Good point.

As we can see: UN has teeth after all when ALL 5 perm members are United in the same line of thought.

No Arabian country belongs to the 5.

Soon Jehovah will put in their minds to finish BTG. 
If these 5 agree then it will happen 

The teeth are there all long. It’s the veto power 

I don’t see the need for UN reform 

Besides there s no time for that I think 

[truce]

9 hours ago, Richie said:

Most probably sealing is done in a way that we do not know...

And in a way that we really do not need to know if we are not anointed, unless Jehovah decides otherwise.

9 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

• Memorial Partakers Worldwide: 22,312

@SofiaWill they receive the Final Sealing as a group or one at a time? 

On a personal level, because their anointing is between them and Jehovah. 

Edited January 25 by truce

[truce]

4 hours ago, Dages said:

Sealing is individual, so unless they all communicate together to confirm they are all sealed at the same time, then I doubt they will all know.

 

On the other hand, if the GB is making an update to talk about this and the fact that they are now all sealed, the anointed individual will know, and we will too, at the same time.

Tha anointed individual will know whether he has been sealed or not, even with or without a GB update or an announcement. He doesn't need the GB to validate or prompt him of his sealing. I'm thinking of 1 John 2:20,27. If the GB were to ever declare that they have been sealed, it would be for the knowledge and benefit of the other sheep, in effect saying: "Get ready. He is here at the doors."

[Mike047]

That's a good point, Truce, as it reads at Romans 8: 16,17 "The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together."

 

Here the Greek word for “spirit” appears twice but with different meanings. “The spirit itself” refers to God’s holy spirit, or active force. The expression “our spirit” refers to the dominant mental attitude of anointed Christians. So God’s holy spirit bears witness, or testifies, together with the dominant attitude of anointed Christians, impelling them to respond in a positive way to what God’s inspired Word says about the heavenly hope.

[Dages]

29 minutes ago, truce said:

Tha anointed individual will know whether he has been sealed or not, even with or without a GB update or an announcement. He doesn't need the GB to validate or prompt him of his sealing. I'm thinking of 1 John 2:20,27. If the GB were to ever declare that they have been sealed, it would be for the knowledge and benefit of the other sheep, in effect saying: "Get ready. He is here at the doors."

An individual cannot know if the whole group is sealed, only himself/herself. So such an Update would be useful for all the individual anointed too, who got the individual sealing, but would then understand that every other anointed had such sealing too. That's what I was meaning.
An anointed brother/sister who would watch the update and see that the GB is announcing they (the GB members) are sealed would be an interesting moment.

Edited January 25 by Dages

[blue-jay]

Don't they usually feel their final sealing right before they die? Where did I hear that? 🤔

If that were the case, then a GB member probably would mention something to one of the others. And than they'll realize that they all just received their final sealing, and they'll know what's up lol

[Dolce vita]

I imagine the moment of collective sealing like an alarm in a nuclear power plant: all the doors close (now we know that some will remain open) and all the lights turn red, with ringing sounds that will make the eardrums roar. Order is given not to leave the platform except to go look for the last ones who are dragging their feet, and we all hope that among them there will be a relative, a friend, a colleague, a neighbor of one of us

[Dolce vita]

13 minutes ago, blue-jay said:

Ne ressentent-ils pas généralement leur scellement final juste avant de mourir ? Où ai-je entendu ça ? 🤔

Si tel était le cas, alors un membre du GB mentionnerait probablement quelque chose à l’un des autres. Et ils se rendront compte qu'ils viennent tous de recevoir leur scellement final, et ils sauront ce qui se passe mdr

Paul seems to be teaching us something. In his 2 letter to Timothy (4:6-8) he evokes the idea of his definitive sealing. We are almost sure that he dies the following year, so between what the holy spirit makes them understand about the definitive seal and their reward, a very short time may pass, here at least a few months. How much, we don't know but very short that's for sure.

[LeolaRootStew]

Jesus gave a composite sign of the times of the end, and the final sealing of the anointed was not on the list, so I don't want to be on the lookout for it. If it was so important, he would have told us to be on the lookout.

 

That being said, I assumed the final sealing would be much like Jesus separating the sheep from the goats, ie. not something we would be personally aware of. Maybe I'm wrong - I'm open to more information about it.

 

We also don't know if they will be sealed before or after the cry of peace and security. All we know is the winds are held back until they are sealed. 

 

There are so many iffy things about it that I want to stick with what I'm sure about: the cry of peace and security followed by the destruction of Babylon the Great.

[Sofia]

When religion is banned what are the possible motives and consequences?

 

personal opinion:

 

Pros:

-Religious-motivated violence and discrimination may be reduced.

-Religious-based laws may be removed, leading to greater gender equality, civil rights, and freedom of expression.

-Societal focus may shift to more secular, rational values and decision-making.

-Religious institutions may be stripped of wealth and power.

 

Cons:

-The freedom of religion may be violated, which could lead to further civil unrest.

-Religious organizations could become targets of persecution and violence.

-Religious-based charities and social services could be adversely affected.

-Religious beliefs and practices could become marginalized or lost over time.

[Sofia]

5 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

We also don't know if they will be sealed before or after the cry of peace and security. All we know is the winds are held back until they are sealed

*** w22 September pp. 15-16 par. 6 Is Your Name in “the Book of Life”? ***
6 (…) But in order to keep their names in that figurative book, they must remain faithful. Then when they receive their final sealing, whether before they die or before the outbreak of the great tribulation, their names will be written permanently in this book.—Rev. 7:3.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2022567&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=12

 

*** rr chap. 16 pp. 179-180 par. 18 “Put a Mark on the Foreheads” ***
18 (…) At that crucial time, just before Armageddon begins, Jesus will judge people as sheep or goats. (…)  What about faithful anointed ones? They do not need to be marked for survival through Armageddon. Rather, they will receive their final sealing either before they die or before the outbreak of the great tribulation. Then, at some point before Armageddon begins, they will be raised to heaven.—Rev. 7:1-3.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1102017176&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=25

 

[Sofia]

*** w13 11/15 p. 14 par. 20 How Can We Maintain “a Waiting Attitude”? ***
20 May all of us remain spiritually alert and display a waiting attitude. Let us patiently wait for the proclamation of “Peace and security!” and for the final sealing of the chosen ones. Thereafter, the four angels will let go of the destructive winds, and Babylon the Great will be destroyed. While we wait for these momentous events to happen, let us accept direction from those appointed to take the lead in Jehovah’s organization. Close ranks against the Devil and the demons! Now is the time to heed the psalmist’s exhortation: “Be courageous, and may your heart be strong, all you who are waiting for Jehovah.”—Ps. 31:24.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2013844&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=29

 

it seems that the sequence of events will be:

proclamation of peace and security 

then the final sealing of all remnant anointed ones then BTG destruction.

Edited January 25 by Sofia

[GeordieGirl]

15 Mar 2015 WT discusses the parable of the wise and foolish virgins in the article Will You "Keep on the Watch". 

 

Discussing the meaning of the verses at Matthew 25:8,9, paragraph 11 has this to say:

 

........ before the great tribulation starts, all the faithful anointed on earth will have received their final sealing. (Rev. 7:1-4) From then on, their calling is sure. But think about the years before the tribulation begins. What would happen to anointed ones who failed to remain watchful, who lost their integrity? They would lose their heavenly reward. Obviously, they would receive no final sealing prior to the start of the tribulation. ...... When the tribulation starts, the foolish ones might be shocked to see the destruction of Babylon the Great. It may be only at that point that they realize that they are not ready for the arrival of the Bridegroom.

 

From this it would seem that unless something changes between now and then, there won't be a public announcement, an update or any information made publicly that the anointed have received their final sealing. 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015203

Edited January 25 by GeordieGirl

[Dolce vita]

21 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Jesus gave a composite sign of the times of the end, and the final sealing of the anointed was not on the list, so I don't want to be on the lookout for it. If it was so important, he would have told us to be on the lookout.

 

That being said, I assumed the final sealing would be much like Jesus separating the sheep from the goats, ie. not something we would be personally aware of. Maybe I'm wrong - I'm open to more information about it.

 

We also don't know if they will be sealed before or after the cry of peace and security. All we know is the winds are held back until they are sealed. 

 

There are so many iffy things about it that I want to stick with what I'm sure about: the cry of peace and security followed by the destruction of Babylon the Great.

" Jesus gave a composite sign of the times of the end, and the final sealing of the anointed was not on the list " Good point, Justinah. I hadn't thought of it in those terms. Is it because the sealing is not materially visible to everyone, even if I read earlier some very interesting things about the visibility of the anointing at the time of Jesus' baptism and at Pentecost 33? We are not waiting for a dove or flame of fire on their head but perhaps something which will tell the anointed one it's about time to leave, and it will make us happy as well as very sad, we love them so much, espacially the Members of the GB that we have come to know for ten years now, when Jehovah put up his spiritual programs on his TV. I already miss them !

That said, it doesn't matter if they are all sealed after the Peace and Security cry because the cry will have already warned us that childbirth has started: be careful, baby is going to come out.

[LeolaRootStew]

33 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

15 Mar 2015 WT discusses the parable of the wise and foolish virgins in the article Will You "Keep on the Watch". 

 

Discussing the meaning of the verses at Matthew 25:8,9, paragraph 11 has this to say:

 

........ before the great tribulation starts, all the faithful anointed on earth will have received their final sealing. (Rev. 7:1-4) From then on, their calling is sure. But think about the years before the tribulation begins. What would happen to anointed ones who failed to remain watchful, who lost their integrity? They would lose their heavenly reward. Obviously, they would receive no final sealing prior to the start of the tribulation. ...... When the tribulation starts, the foolish ones might be shocked to see the destruction of Babylon the Great. It may be only at that point that they realize that they are not ready for the arrival of the Bridegroom.

 

From this it would seem that unless something changes between now and then, there won't be a public announcement, an update or any information made publicly that the anointed have received their final sealing. 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015203

 

This is a side point, but doesn't this answer some of the questions about what happens to an unfaithful anointed person? They would lose their heavenly reward, but considering our new understanding of when "the door of the ark closes" they would have as much of a chance as other people to still survive Armageddon.

 

So I would disagree with the statement that "earth is not a consolation prize; if they lose out on their heavenly hope - that's it."

[Paulo]

5 hours ago, Sofia said:

I believe they will 

The sealing is a confirmation by the Holy Spirit they are aproved to go to Heaven. Since they feel that when they are chosen I think that they will feel the sealing. It’s impossible not to feel the Holy Spirit. 
The question is: will WE know? Will GB tell us?

 

my opinion ( this is my opinion only):

back in Jesus baptism he felt the Holy Spirit. Yet Jehovah made it “visible” as a dove for the benefit of John. He knew what was happening 

in Pentecost 120 felt the Holy Spirit. Yet Jehovah made it visible as fire tongues for the benefit of all involved. They knew all had received power.

based in this… I expect we may know that they have received the final sealing and will tell us GT is about to happen 

 

Maybe the final sealing will be like the first sealing. Clearly seen, and its origin clearly identified.

Signs from the sky would leave no doubt to anyone that the time has come.

 

[coolbrz731]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

Cons:

-The freedom of religion may be violated, which could lead to further civil unrest.

-Religious organizations could become targets of persecution and violence.

-Religious-based charities and social services could be adversely affected.

-Religious beliefs and practices could become marginalized or lost over time.

I'd like to add one more con:

-Businesses can no longer count on the revenue boom religious based holidays create.  The economy is adversely affected.

[Doug]

42 minutes ago, coolbrz731 said:

I'd like to add one more con:

-Businesses can no longer count on the revenue boom religious based holidays create.  The economy is adversely affected.

 

From the merchants' point of view, yes.   But from the public's point of view, no more collection plates to think about, and no more burdensome holidays.

 

When we tell people we don't celebrate Christmas, don't they sometimes say "I wish I didn't'.  But they're stuck with it.

[bagwell1987]

1 hour ago, coolbrz731 said:

I'd like to add one more con:

-Businesses can no longer count on the revenue boom religious based holidays create.  The economy is adversely affected.

If someone could do a study on how many corporations are owned by religious organizations I think everyone would be shocked. In the US many mega grocery stores are owned or partially owned by Catholic or LDS. So once religion goes down commercialism is going to founder. The stable world will crumble.