New Proposals to Criminalize Jehovah’s Witnesses’ “Shunning”:

[Pabo]

If governments did try to bring in laws about shunning, does this mean the when we go door to door that the householder cannot shun us away from their door?

 

shun

/ʃʌn/

 

verb

1. persistently avoid, ignore, or reject (someone or something) through antipathy or caution.

   "he shunned fashionable society"

[Dolce vita]

On 31/10/2023 at 16:10, BLEmom said:

Il est fomenté par ceux qui veulent faire les choses à leur manière et qui ensuite pleurent à cause des affaires perdues ou sont bouleversés par le fait que leur famille ne traîne plus avec eux. 
C'est comme choisir de rejoindre l'armée et être bouleversé lorsqu'on se fait expulser pour ne pas avoir respecté les règles. Devinez quoi? Vous ne pouvez plus participer à des opérations militaires avec vos copains. Euh. 

argument to remember. Merci @Mouton

[Paulo]

4 hours ago, Pabo said:

If governments did try to bring in laws about shunning, does this mean the when we go door to door that the householder cannot shun us away from their door?

Yes, he can shuns us away, and with the proper legal framework, in both cases we can be against the law.

The legal reasoning is not about shunning but interference with the individual right to religious freedom, which is protected by law.

[minister159]

The practice of ostracism, excommunication, shunning or disfellowshipping is based on the scriptures and for that reason has been used in religious communities for centuries. It's not based on human law and it's nothing new, although its enforcement has fallen out of favor for the most part in today's religious climate. The authority for disfellowshipping a member of a religious community or congregation, and by extension an organization, comes from God, not man, and obligates its members to remove any and all unrepentant lawbreakers, bar none. It's similar to our mandate for preaching, "We must obey God as ruler rather than men."

 

When a prospective member of our organization decides he wants to worship Jehovah along with us, he is made fully aware of the rules of membership and it is perfectly clear that he understands the consequences of breaking the rules, aka God's laws. Obey the law and practice righteousness and you'll have no problem, break the law and you'll pay the price. Simple. As they say in the vernacular, "Our club, our rules." The standards for true worship are too high for some, and if that's they case, they shouldn't join.

Edited November 27, 2023 by minister159

[trottigy]

No one can force you to talk to someone else. You can't be sued for saying, "I don't want to talk to you right now."

 

It is brilliant that our announcement is now - so and so is "no longer a JW." This leaves it to each individual to follow the scriptures.

 

EDIT - since I ws in the OD book for something else - look at how we teach this:

 

Quote

17. If an announcement is made that someone is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, how should we treat him?

• “Stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.

• “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—2 John 10.

 

We read two Bible verses - boom! Asking someone to follow the Bible can't be a crime.

Edited November 28, 2023 by trottigy

[Jwanon]

Baptism is a sacred vow we make to God. If someone betrays that oath by disassociating from God's organization, there will be consequences. If we treated them like nothing happened, we would be trivializing this sacrament.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:57 AM, -Chris- said:

People can be 'cancelled' due to disgusting actions, social media posts, or even rumors and insinuation. They're tried in the 'court' of public opinion and often have no say in the matter. Other people 'go low contact' or 'no contact' with relatives or friends for a variety of reasons, some very valid.

 

People drop off aged relatives in nursing homes, never to be contacted again, for reasons no greater than they have become inconvenient.

 

On 10/31/2023 at 5:00 PM, GeordieGirl said:

I find the whole saga interesting from the 'turning on religion' viewpoint. 

 

Disfellowshipping is a last ditch effort, when all else has failed, of ensuring that members stay true to biblically required conduct. Essentially, it is a tool to stay ‘no part of the world.’ Is it necessary? No group has been able to stay true to biblical standards of conduct without some form of it.

 

Anything done can be done differently, but the move to outlaw it is a tool to impede staying separate from the world, as though none should be able to excuse themselves from the ruinous experiment of human self-rule.

 

On 11/1/2023 at 3:26 PM, BLEmom said:

. It would have to be pretty flagrant for anyone to get in trouble for socializing with df’d ones or such

 

Few things that are done must be done to the nth degree. Some time after a certain teen I knew well was disfellowshipped, he, who was learning to drive, dropped his family off at the carport, parked the car himself, and strode back into the hall. Without a coat—it was 20 degrees Fahrenheit! Throwing protocol to the wind, I said to him privately, ‘Wow, I know there’s to be no contact and all, but did they even have to take your coat?’ He smiled at that one, not too long afterwards was reinstated, and is doing well to this day.

 

On 11/2/2023 at 4:24 AM, Frances Bennett said:

We live in very strange times. People are very broken. It's very similar to when Jesus was on Earth. Good people can behave in confusing ways when they are damaged by Satan's world. 

 

There is also pushback over those disfellowshipped who were baptized as teens or even younger, as in, could they possibly have understood the consequences of their actions at that young age? I suspect that in such instances, they are already being cut a bit extra slack should they err as they are growing up, but it is another matter of legal contention.

Edited November 28, 2023 by TrueTomHarley