Immigration enforcement and JW's

[Witness1970]

11 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Personal circumstance vary. The Branch refers to them as "undocumented" Is 'undocumented' and 'illegal' the same thing? Do we threat them the same way?

Since WWII the United States has had an "asylum" law. People can cross the border if their life is in danger.  They are "undocumented" until they request asylum.  Once they ask for asylum they are allowed to stay legally until their case can be adjudicated.  They have all the rights of citizens in the interim.  Once their case goes to court, they can stay permanently if their asylum request is approved, but they have to leave if not approved.  So, they would be undocumented until their asylum request is made.

[Witness1970]

There has been talk of "home-grown criminals" being deported.  If Jehovah's Witnesses is declared a "terrorist" organization, it could apply to them also.  The publications mentioned some 50+ years ago that having a constitution would not prevent a country from becoming a dictatorship.  All of the countries that have become dictatorships had a "constitution" (maybe with a different name) with the same flowery language, but they still became dictatorship.  It could happen anywhere.

 

EDIT: I will admit that I was somewhat skeptical when I first read that in the publication, but I realized that it was correct.

Edited Wednesday at 12:09 PM by Witness1970

[bobby]

16 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

Which "one" of these is a crime?

 

Who is in the country illegally

That does not always drive within the speed limit

Who stops with their front tires on the white stop-bar at a traffic light
Who may cross the street without using the crosswalk
That we don't know if they were 100% accurate on their taxes
Who has an above ground pool in their back yard but didn't have a permit to assemble it

 

As far as I understand, they are all crimes - since they are all illegal.

 

j waking or as you said Who may cross the street without using the crosswalk is not a crime in calif 

[Doug]

In the news today is a story about a 49 year old Salvadorian man who has been here illegally for 30 years.

He has eight American-born children.  He was running a home-improvement business.

 

This man was pulled over for reasons not explained in the story. His troubles really started because his driver's license was suspended.  For the driving violation and/or the suspended license, he got a two-day sentence.  However, ICE was waiting outside the courthouse and detained him for his undocumented status.  He's in a detention facility in Mississippi awaiting deportation.

 

So, here's the thing  .   .   This man has stayed out of trouble for 30 years.  He has raised eight kids.  If anyone might catch a break and get a little sympathy, he would be a good candidate.

But, no.  The current policy toward the undocumented is zero tolerance.

 

This is an example of why I'm worried for our brothers and sisters.  Any little mistake that attracts law enforcement can become a life-changing crisis.  A burned-out brake light, rolling through a stop sign (California style) expired tags (even though you have the new ones on the table at home).  ANY probable cause for law enforcement to detain can escalate very fast and very badly. I was once pulled over for talking on the phone, but I wasn't. I was just scratching my ear. I told the cop he can look at my phone to see that there haven't been any calls for a good 20 minutes.

 

There are no undocumented brothers or sisters in my congregation of 42.  But I imagine those friends (wherever they are) must be a bit "uptight" over these recent changes. 

[trottigy]

One day ALL JWs will be illegal and undocumented - as they attempt to "cancel" us. As always - we will trust Jehovah will take good care of us (see Matthew 6).

 

I am going to keep working on that trust even now.

Edited yesterday at 02:35 PM by trottigy

[Esined]

On 4/15/2025 at 11:07 PM, LeolaRootStew said:

But if someone is flagrantly disobeying the law after choosing a wrong course, and they take no steps to remedy it, I would have a hard time working with them because 1) they committed a crime by entering the country illegally and 2) they compound it every day by doing nothing to fix it.

Hopefully it is reassuring to know that is NOT the case for most if not all of our brothers and sisters who are undocumented. 
 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Esined said:

Hopefully it is reassuring to know that is NOT the case for most if not all of our brothers and sisters who are undocumented. 
 

 

 

It is. Thank you.

[minister159]

18 hours ago, Doug said:

In the news today is a story about a 49 year old Salvadorian man who has been here illegally for 30 years.

Does that mean that he didn't have a green card, which as I understand it, is necessary in order to become a naturalized citizen? I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject, but I wonder if that's why more undocumented aliens don't apply to become naturalized citizens or automatically become naturalized citizens, after living in the U.S. for so many years.

[Doug]

5 hours ago, trottigy said:

One day ALL JWs will be illegal and undocumented - as they attempt to "cancel" us. As always - we will trust Jehovah will take good care of us (see Matthew 6).

I am going to keep working on that trust even now.

 

I guess you're talking about the time when JW's are the only religion after BtG is gone.  By then, our legal status will be the least of our concerns.  We will be targeted for our faith and neutrality, not our immigration status.

 

Meanwhile, brothers and sisters in Russia, Eritrea and other places are in jail for unjust and unreasonable reasons. It's religious persecution.

Some brothers and sisters in the US may find themselves in jail or on a flight out of country for reasons that are not religious persecution. Just Caesar enforcing laws that weren't written to target JW's. ( like the laws in Russia ).

 

This topic has led me to wonder, would I harbor a JW who was undocumented, to try to help them avoid deportation? ( I think that would be a crime itself ).  So, would I ?  Well, I certainly would during the GT.  But what about now?  Maybe.

I'm sure it would depend on the circumstances. I can't rule it out.

[LeolaRootStew]

4 hours ago, Doug said:

This topic has led me to wonder, would I harbor a JW who was undocumented, to try to help them avoid deportation? ( I think that would be a crime itself ).  So, would I ?  Well, I certainly would during the GT.  But what about now?  Maybe.

I'm sure it would depend on the circumstances. I can't rule it out.

 

I wouldn't. Nations have a right to defend their borders.