GB 2025 Update #4

[Jwanon]

On 7/4/2025 at 3:28 PM, Brazilian2024 said:

Will there be adjustments related to birthdays?

😶👀😏

 

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted:
"Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess." (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26)

As for early Christians, Origen wrote in the 3rd century:
"Of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below." (Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495)
 

>The idea of celebrating the date of your birth is a pagan tradition. In fact, many Christians didn't celebrate birthdays historically, because of that link to paganism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/good-question-how-did-birthday-traditions-start/

>Birthdays first started as a form of protection.
>The Greeks adopted the Egyptian tradition of celebrating the “birth” of a god.
>They, like many other pagan cultures, thought that days of major change, such as these “birth” days, welcomed evil spirits.
>Birthdays were first considered to be a pagan ritual in Christian culture.

https://www.pumpitupparty.com/blog/how-did-the-tradition-of-birthdays-begin/

[Jwanon]

5 hours ago, Sofia said:

My aunt was regularl pioneer yet she always celebrated bday anniversaries

without the pagan stuff ( song candles wish gifts)

she understood that it was a nice way to show appreciation towards her husband and employers family

 

Celebrating one's birth is not what we object to, what we object to is the pagan elements associated with it

 

It's the same reason why we don't celebrate christmas, not because celebrating Christ's birth is wrong, but because of the heathen imagery around it

 

So in theory there's nothing wrong with celebrating someone's birth or Jesus' birth as long as we don't perpetuate heathen traditions, because these rituals please the demons

 

Maybe in paradise, when the negative connotations that these holidays carry will have disappeared, we will be allowed to celebrate birthdays and christmas, but I doubt it will happen in this present system

Edited July 5 by Jwanon

[Andrey]

5 hours ago, Sofia said:

My aunt was regularl pioneer yet she always celebrated bday anniversaries

without the pagan stuff ( song candles wish gifts)

she understood that it was a nice way to show appreciation towards her husband and employers family

 

Dear sister, Sophia, with deep respect, what about this principle?

 

If, now, you are a Jew in name and rely on law and take pride in God, and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent because you are instructed out of the Law, and you are convinced that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of young children, and having the framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law— do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written. (Romans 2:17-24)

Edited July 5 by Andrey

[Andrey]

11 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Celebrating one's birth is not what we object to, what we object to is the pagan elements associated with it

 

It's the same reason why we don't celebrate christmas, not because celebrating Christ's birth is wrong, but because of the heathen imagery around it

 

So in theory there's nothing wrong with celebrating someone's birth or Jesus' birth as long as we don't perpetuate heathen traditions, because these rituals please the demons

 

Maybe in paradise, when the negative connotations that these holidays carry will have disappeared, we will be allowed to celebrate birthdays and christmas, but I doubt it will happen in this present system

 

I wonder what Jehovah was looking at when he punished the Israelites?

 

At this Aaron said to them: “Take the gold earrings from the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters and bring them to me.” So all the people began taking off the gold earrings that were in their ears and bringing them to Aaron. Then he took the gold from them, and he formed it with an engraving tool and made it into a statue of a calf. They began to say: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. Then Aaron called out: “There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.” So they got up early on the next day and began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time. Then Jehovah began plaguing the people because they had made the calf, the one that Aaron had made. (Exodus 32:2-6; 35)

[Jwanon]

1 minute ago, Andrey said:

 

I wonder what Jehovah was looking at when he punished the Israelites?

 

At this Aaron said to them: “Take the gold earrings from the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters and bring them to me.” So all the people began taking off the gold earrings that were in their ears and bringing them to Aaron. Then he took the gold from them, and he formed it with an engraving tool and made it into a statue of a calf. They began to say: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. Then Aaron called out: “There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.” So they got up early on the next day and began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time. Then Jehovah began plaguing the people because they had made the calf, the one that Aaron had made. (Exodus 32:2-6; 35)

 

Well God specifically ordered them “You shall not make for yourself a carved image... You shall not bow down to them…” (Exodus 20:4–5).

 

Then they went and did just that

[Tronora]

I listened to a radio programme many years ago. I had always had a problem with why we don't celebrate birthdays. The radio programme interviewed a satanist. (No, they don't worship satan, they worship themselves). He claimed that a satanist's most holy day and most important celebration, is their birthday. That was 'nuff said' for me, and I finally could also be obedient in my heart. I hope our current understanding doesn't change. That would be weird.

 

As for toasting ... why do people only toast in beverages that would be acceptable as a drink offering? Nobody toasts in coffee or milk, or water (other than for fun). Hmmmm ... Sure it could be fun to toast, but with a worldly person? Hmmmm ... With my spiritual family? Yes.

[Jwanon]

Just now, Tronora said:

. I had always had a problem with why we don't celebrate birthdays

 

What is your opinion on this:

 

27 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted:
"Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess." (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26)

As for early Christians, Origen wrote in the 3rd century:
"Of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below." (Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495)
 

>The idea of celebrating the date of your birth is a pagan tradition. In fact, many Christians didn't celebrate birthdays historically, because of that link to paganism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/good-question-how-did-birthday-traditions-start/

>Birthdays first started as a form of protection.
>The Greeks adopted the Egyptian tradition of celebrating the “birth” of a god.
>They, like many other pagan cultures, thought that days of major change, such as these “birth” days, welcomed evil spirits.
>Birthdays were first considered to be a pagan ritual in Christian culture.

https://www.pumpitupparty.com/blog/how-did-the-tradition-of-birthdays-begin/

 

[Derrick_m]

Exodus 12:38 says they took a vast mixed company along with them. I feel that the end must be very close if we are making a lot of adjustments to allow people to easily join us. As long as it is not breaking bible principles 

[Andrey]

32 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

Celebrating one's birth is not what we object to, what we object to is the pagan elements associated with it.

 

Dear brother, Jason. A little more and all pagan rituals will become a thing of the past. Then, how to faithfully follow this order? How to recognize?

 

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.” (Revelation 18:4)

Edited July 5 by Andrey

[Doug]

11 minutes ago, Andrey said:

 

I wonder what Jehovah was looking at when he punished the Israelites?

 

At this Aaron said to them: “Take the gold earrings from the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters and bring them to me.” So all the people began taking off the gold earrings that were in their ears and bringing them to Aaron. Then he took the gold from them, and he formed it with an engraving tool and made it into a statue of a calf. They began to say: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. 

 

Aaron had an interesting response to Moses  ~ " I said to them 'Whoever has any gold must take it off and give it to me'.  Then I threw it into the fire and out came this calf".      Imagine that !!!

[Tronora]

@Jwanon I don't understand your question. Did you read my conclusion? 

 

 

[Tronora]

2 minutes ago, Tronora said:

@Jwanon I don't understand your question. Did you read my conclusion? 

 

 

 

If you want more details, pm me. 

[Jwanon]

6 minutes ago, Andrey said:

Then, how to faithfully follow this order? How to recognize?

 

with the guidance of God's organization

 

that's what it's for

 

4 minutes ago, Tronora said:

Did you read my conclusion? 

 

no, I have a bad habit of responding before reading the entire post

Edited July 5 by Jwanon

[Doug]

I looked into cuff links , as mentioned in the update.  No unique superstitious connections that I can find.

 

But, as a piece of jewelry , the design may have utilized "good luck" symbols like four-leaf clover or horseshoe.

[Andrey]

50 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Celebrating one's birth is not what we object to, what we object to is the pagan elements associated with it

 

It's the same reason why we don't celebrate christmas, not because celebrating Christ's birth is wrong, but because of the heathen imagery around it

 

So in theory there's nothing wrong with celebrating someone's birth or Jesus' birth as long as we don't perpetuate heathen traditions, because these rituals please the demons

 

Maybe in paradise, when the negative connotations that these holidays carry will have disappeared, we will be allowed to celebrate birthdays and christmas, but I doubt it will happen in this present system

 

Military service is not always connected with learning to fight and kill. For example, military medicine, supply service, military athletes, accounting, cooks, etc. Despite the fact that these professions are peaceful, we do not go to serve in the army.

Edited July 5 by Andrey

[Jwanon]

5 minutes ago, Andrey said:

Military service is not always connected with learning to fight and kill. For example, military medicine, supply service, military athletes, accounting, etc. Despite the fact that these professions are peaceful, we do not go to serve in the army.

 

yes, we don't serve in an organization whose ideals involve killing other people

 

it would compromise our neutrality

Edited July 5 by Jwanon

[Qapla]

1 hour ago, Tronora said:

As for toasting ... why do people only toast in beverages that would be acceptable as a drink offering? Nobody toasts in coffee or milk, or water (other than for fun).

 

Not sure if I understand "beverages that would be acceptable as a drink offering". However, if you mean "alcohol", it could be because, often times, alcohol is what is served as "special" as in the case of high-priced wines and Champaign.

 

I have seen many people "clink" glasses/cans/cups/cartons/even food when getting ready to eat or drink. I have also seen toasts done at business meetings and other occasions that did not use alcohol - it just made use of "raising the glass" to pronounce the toast.

 

Edited July 5 by Qapla

[Derrick_m]

My last comment on this update is this, and for everyone to remember. Obedience to the direction to the appointed FDS is the most important thing, not to run ahead of them. Like the days of Moses and other appointed men, we respect the position they have been given. Some may mock us and say, now you can wear a beard or now you can say cheers, but by following direction we have been obedient the whole time and that’s most precious to Jehovah. 

[Jwanon]

14 minutes ago, Derrick_m said:

now you can wear a beard

 

The FDS never said you can't wear a beard though

Edited July 5 by Jwanon

[SteveAus]

For me, this discussion is "much ado about nothing", in that it makes Jehovah appear as a petty God, ready to pounce on you for the smallest thing. I'm more of the opinion (yes, my opinion only) that it's the principles involved that Jehovah would look at, and in what context. 

If I wish my daughter well on her "X amount of trips around the sun", do you really think Jehovah thinks I'm elevating her above all others and giving worship to her? But on the other hand, if I invite people to a party to solely celebrate this event, then I'd feel I'd crossed the line.

From the views of many here, it appears to me, if we were left unchecked, and without the GB oversight, we'd be happy in creating our own version of the Jewish Halakha.

Again, all the above is how I personally feel.

[Sete]

I've been waiting for this change in understanding for a long time. In fact, I expected it to only happen in paradise.

 

In my mind, none of these things were invented by pagans, but rather were connoted as something pagan at some point.

I don't agree with almost anything Sartre said, but in many things "Existence precedes essence".

 

Someday someone put on a ring to signify that she was married. This spread and at some point they wanted to rework the meaning to seem more interesting and to put some Pagan god in the middle. Someday they celebrated that the year was over and that a new year would begin, simply because we love parties and, honestly, some years are terrible, so the end of them is almost like a blessing (even if in fact nothing has changed other than the psychological thought that that cycle has ended). This spread and at some point they wanted to rework the meaning to seem more interesting and to put some Pagan god in the middle.

 

Create two intersecting lines, boom! A cross. This spread and at some point they wanted to rework the meaning to seem more interesting and to put some Pagan god in the middle. With that cross, at each end make a small line creating almost a square, boom! A swastika. It's simply impossible to create something that has not already been created. This spread and at some point they wanted to rework the meaning to seem more interesting and to put some Pagan god in the middle (or some strange Austrian).

 

An example of this is the pyramid shape. In countless cultures that probably never met, pyramids were created, each with a pagan thought behind it. In the end, is the pyramid pagan? No. What is it then? It's simply something obvious to think about. Do you want to create something tall but don't know how? You create something that gradually becomes narrower. And boom! There you have a pyramid.

 

In the end?

Anything spread and at some point they wanted to rework the meaning to seem more interesting and to put some Pagan god in the middle.

[ladiife]

1 hour ago, Derrick_m said:

My last comment on this update is this, and for everyone to remember. Obedience to the direction to the appointed FDS is the most important thing, not to run ahead of them. Like the days of Moses and other appointed men, we respect the position they have been given. Some may mock us and say, now you can wear a beard or now you can say cheers, but by following direction we have been obedient the whole time and that’s most precious to Jehovah. 

David told Joab to count Israel and at some point he determined that was bad in Jehovah’s eyes. And he stopped counting. Jehovah didn’t punish him for disobeying David. He actually had his life spared from the pestilence. 1-Chronicles 27:23, 24 and 2- Samuel 25:1-25. David even thought that because he didn’t count the men under 20 that he could count Israel. Granted Joab didn’t incite rebellion against David like Kora, Datham, and Abiram, but he decerned in his heart that David make a wrong call and he stopped participating. The Greek scriptures tell us to be sure what we are taught is in line with the healthful teachings passed on by the apostles. Joab disobeyed David when it was evident he made a decision that was not in line with Jehovah’s will.
 

Now, let me ask this. There was a time when the GB celebrated Christmas. If someone discerned through reading the scriptures and research that that was wrong and decided not to participate in the Christmas celebrations, would they have been disobeying Jehovah or obeying God rather than man? Or should they have sinned against their conscience and kept celebrating a pagan holiday? 

Edited July 5 by ladiife

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

Celebrating one's birth is not what we object to, what we object to is the pagan elements associated with it

I agree. My deceased aunt as well. 
 

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Derrick_m said:

Exodus 12:38 says they took a vast mixed company along with them. I feel that the end must be very close if we are making a lot of adjustments to allow people to easily join us. As long as it is not breaking bible principles 

I agree 200% with this reasoning 

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Andrey said:

 

Dear sister, Sophia, with deep respect, what about this principle?

 

If, now, you are a Jew in name and rely on law and take pride in God, and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent because you are instructed out of the Law, and you are convinced that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of young children, and having the framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law— do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written. (Romans 2:17-24)

What’s wrong on your birthday anniversary to invite friends over to have a meal ? Eating a nice cake why not?

as long as no pagan rituals are involved 

no gifts

no singing birthday wishes

no candles to blow

no name on the cake

no make wish 

 

my aunt always made a special creamy cake for her no-believer husband year anniversary and employers children

she never thought it was wrong

frankly… me neither 

I’m sorry … I don’t want to hurt anyone s feelings 

we eat cake and have friends when we can

why avoid that day? Makes no sense 

we should respect non believers feelings 

it may not ve important to us 

but it matters a lot to them