Aliens

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

That's how I understand your point of view. Is that correct? What am I missing? 

 

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Yes. Emphasis on the word "prove".

 

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Yes, otherwise it would just be belief.

 

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Nope

 

So looks like I understood 2 out of 3 parts. What did I misunderstand? 

 

 

1 hour ago, LeolaRootStew said:

It was their test of obedience. But passing an obedience test is not the same as proving Jehovah's rule is best. Their obedience doesn't touch that.

 

So, at what point could Adam and Eve's continued loyalty be sufficient to provide an answer to Satan's challenge?   Unless proven, how can Jehovah make a reply to the one taunting him?

 

(Job 2:4) 4 But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life.
 

 

While stated in Job, this is the crux of the entire account at Genesis chapter 3.  Jehovah's creation is inherently flawed.  People, even perfect people, only serve Jehovah as long as the good times roll. Take away their paradise and they will curse God.

 

(Proverbs 27:11) 11 Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me.
 

The only way Jehovah could make a reply was if humanity rebelled.   Otherwise, how could Jehovah make a reply without proof?

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Shawnster

[LeolaRootStew]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

So looks like I understood 2 out of 3 parts. What did I misunderstand? 

 

...The rest?

-you saying all ethnicities/species need to sin to prove Satan a liar

-you saying Adam and Eve's sin was inevitable by conflating an inability to prove Satan wrong with a requirement that they sin

-you saying that proving Satan is wrong about humans means it doesn't apply to everyone

 

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

So, at what point could Adam and Eve's continued loyalty be sufficient to provide an answer to Satan's challenge? 

 

Imagine Jehovah made a lavish meal for Adam and Eve and Satan claimed he could make an even better one. They say no and he never makes it. How long do Adam and Eve have to say no before it proves Satan can't cook? Never. You can't prove someone can't cook if you never let them cook. Their loyalty has nothing to do with Satan's ability to rule. That's a category error.  

 

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Unless proven, how can Jehovah make a reply to the one taunting him?

 

What would Satan even taunt Jehovah with: "Hey, I think I can do better, but no one wants to follow me"?

 

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

how could Jehovah make a reply without proof?

 

That's above my pay-grade. 

[Tortuga]

26 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

What would Satan even taunt Jehovah with: "Hey, I think I can do better, but no one wants to follow me"

I think where our opinions differ is that you think Satan needed an opportunity to prove he was right. The difference is that he didn't claim to be right, he claimed Jehovah was wrong. Big difference. Jehovah gave him an opportunity to prove his point.

Edited 1 hour ago by Tortuga