Shawnster

You're obc not alone in how you feel. I agree it's important to be aware of current events. The organization sets the example. Israel goes to war and the featured article on the website is about will Armageddon be fought in the Middle East. Texas suffers a massive flood and the website features an article on natural disasters. We are encouraged to use current events in our ministry. But tell me this. We have 412 pages of discussions agonizing and dissecting every major news event. The focus on the actions of the President of the United States is intense. Tell me, what is the example our organization sets in this regard? Do we have such detailed website articles or Watchtower articles or videos that display this level of intensity in regards current events? Does keeping on the watch mean it is necessary to focus this intensely on the news? Is that what the Slave tells us? Does Jehovah need to wait for the right president or the right world conditions to implant his one thought or can he do so at any moment he chooses?

Exactly. Which shows that all these links to various world events and wondering if these are any indication how close we are to the end (especially in comparison to news events from previous weeks , previous years, or previous decades) is really pointless. Jehovah will put it into their hearts when he puts it into their hearts. He's not waiting on the right moment or right leader.

Question(s) to those who are speculating whether the principles in this or a future update apply to birthdays and holidays such as Thanksgiving. Why? Why do you suppose or speculate we will have an adjustment on these holidays? Could you please explain and do do simply, as if talking to a 5 year old?

This seems to be the deciding factor. We cannot point to any specific superstitious or religious origin to toasting, so clearly it's a custom that has lost all significance. In contrast, these customs in honor of the dead still have religious significance today. Nice point, @Jwanon

And that's conscience at work. Perfect example.

One affect the principle from this broadcast should have is help us "not sweat the small stuff" when it comes to certain phrases people use. For example, someone saying "good luck" or wishing someone luck. Do any of us honestly believe when someone says that phrase they are invoking the gods of luck and destiny? Does this expression have religious or spiritistic connections in our community? It's the person not the place!

They are only saying that because pastors tend to support the current administration

I don't think that's exactly the same in this case though. Crux is Latin. Of course the Bible writers did use that word - they wrote in Greek, nit Latin. Had they wrote in Latin, maybe they would have used crux, but only if that word also meant stake or upright pole.

I guess I don't follow. How would our acceptance or use of the cross change according to what you describe? What would we do differently that we are not doing now?

I hear you. I agree with you. I can also tell you how they are thinking and what is causing this confusion. Look at the principles outlined in that update: 3.1. [Principle 1of3] Would Jehovah Be Offended by This? At 2 Corinthians 6:17, Jehovah gives us clear direction: “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’” This principle emphasizes that Christians must stay far away from any symbol or custom related to false religion or spiritism. 3.2. [Principle 2of3] How Would This Affect Others in the Congregation? Romans 14:19 and 21 remind us: “So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up.” “It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.” Even if a symbol or custom isn’t wrong in itself, we need to consider how others in the congregation might view it. We would never want our actions to offend others needlessly. At the same time, as mature Christians we respect the right that others have to make their own decisions based on their Bible-trained conscience. 3.3. [Principle 3of3] How Is This Symbol or Custom Viewed by People in My Culture or Community? The principle here is that we take into account how others feel about and view matters. Knowing how a certain symbol or custom is viewed in our own country or community is very important. Something that is very offensive in our land or culture may be viewed as completely innocent in another land or culture. So the Christian needs to be primarily concerned about what? “Not what a certain symbol or design possibly meant thousands of years ago or how it might be thought of on the other side of the world, but what it means now to most people where he lives.” It's that last paragraph above that people talking about Thanksgiving or birthdays are focused on. Birthdays, like toasting, are not viewed in our community as having any connection with false religion or spiritism. It's not connected to nationalism. Points 1 and 3 both focus on whether the custom, practice, symbol, or object is currently associated with false religion or spiritism in the community we reside in. Celebrating birthdays or Thanksgiving or any of these other holidays are, in my opinion, non-starters. We're not going back to these or any other holiday. At the very least celebrating these holidays would violate principle 2 listed above - How would this affect the congregation? Suddenly celebrating these holidays would stumble many in the congregation. I never thought brothers would have beards or sisters wear slacks to the meeting. I'm sure many here thought that was obvious. In fact, when the change in meeting attire was first announced a very faithful brother made it clear to me how this troubled him. He even shared how we were always recognized by "how well we dressed." I know I always mocked Christendom when I'd see them not wearing a tie and sport jacket. Yet, here we are. Same thing regarding toasting. I thought it was obvious why we did not engage in such a practice. I thought it was quite clear that toasting was a way of offering a drink offering, which is a form of worship, to whomever or whatever was being toasted. What you and I think is obvious is not so obvious to someone else. Birthdays do not hold any religious significance in my community (I can't speak for anyone else). Thanksgiving does not seem all that nationalistic. I guarantee you nobody in the United States celebrating Thanksgiving could explain to you the nationalistic origin. They all think it came from the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock. So, to connect back to the principles listed above - Birthdays and Thanksgiving are no longer viewed as religious or nationalistic in my community. I'm not saying this is the correct reasoning a Christian should be using. I am saying this is the line of reasoning they are following though. Again, this is why I imagine we will have a Watchtower with clarification before too long. This reasoning should apply equally to sisters as well as brothers, no? I think it's safe to say that, when I was your age (or a tad younger), I believed the same thing about men with only 1 earring. The expression was "left is right and right is wrong" which meant a man with an earring in the left ear was straight but the right ear was gay. Rubbish. There is and was no such code.

While these speculations are running wild, it is understandable. As an organization we have always held fast to the truth. We have been told repeatedly how we follow the scriptures and long ago purged all traces of false religion. All of these worldly customs and practices and traditions have pagan origins, and are rooted in false religion and so we avoid them at all costs. So you can understand how hard it is to accept some of these changes. And we are having a lot of changes in a short time. Unlike most of the beliefs that have been clarified over the decades, these recent changes affect our daily lives. The line of reasoning presented in the update is that if a custom or practice has no religious significance in our community, then the custom or practice is a conscience matter and up to each individual to decide. This line of reasoning now opens up a lot of possibilities that up to last week were never even considered. Offering a toast does not have any religious significance in my community and people do not think they are invoking God's blessings. OK, what else is there? God bless you. Gesundheit. na zdrowie. Offering an expressing to someone who sneezes is no longer viewed as having religious or superstitious significance but is considered good manners. Yes, we have Watchtowers that clearly state why this would be a wrong practice for Christians, the reasoning is exactly the same as why we avoided offering toasts. Clearly line of reasoning from this update also applies to this custom when someone sneezes. OK, what next? Thanksgiving? Our community attaches no religious significance to this. Christmas? That continues to lose religious significance. OK, like you I agree these questions cross the line and in no way will we ever celebrate these holidays, but you see why people here are going down this road. OK, so the holidays are really off track, but what about tattoos? We are no longer under the Mosaic Law and, more importantly, people who get tattoos are not doing so for a dead person (with the exception of the memorial tattoos). These tattoos are no longer viewed as having any religious significance., just like offering toasts of a blessing when someone sneezes. What else? Knock on wood? Nose rings? Men with earrings? Gaged ears? We are allowed beards now. The same reasoning why some would say men with pierced ears is wrong is the same reasoning that used to be used to explain why beards were wrong. I'm confident we will receive further guidance on the full extent this new approach extends.

Likewise with drink offerings, which is what a toast is. 'let's raise a glass to... " " let's drink to... "

We said the same thing about toasting just last month.

What is stopping you from doing so? We are encouraged to invite ones over. We are encouraged to have others join us in personal study/family worship. Why not invite a couple of couples or families over and do this for personal study/family worship?

We don't. That's the whole point of the broadcast. By stating our conscience is involved the Organization is saying "do not look to us for a list about every custom that is acceptable and unacceptable. Use your conscience. What might be fine for you might be wrong for me."