US Supreme Court Says Gay Marriage Legal in All States

[Luezette]

I've always felt that way Ryan. As a matter of fact, I have a return visit and she's gay, and the last time I saw her, her and her partner were living together. The last time I saw them was in the street, I just greeted them as in "hello, when can i come by" to them, we made conversation and then moved on. I found them both very pleasant. I don't know if they were planning to be "married" or not. In addition, my specialty medical appts are in the lower East side (the village), where the majority of homosexuality is. I love going out there for to me there's freedom. Of course some will frown on that statement just made but oh well. People are gonna judge no matter.

But one thing that came to mind was now that it's legal everywhere in the U.S. for them, and I think someone here had already mentioned it is this: It'll probably be labeled a hate crime if we (as in people not just JW) show any type of disdain? I'm just guessing. Now we're (again as in people) "have" to accept it since it's legal? If we're (this time we as in JW), introduced to them as husband/husband or wife/wife, do we have to say "nice to meet you" as we would a husband/wife? I just can't see myself doing that! I just can't! Maybe I'm just putting the cart before the horse.

Anyway, gotta continue getting ready for my meeting. At least there I'll be with people who got some sense in their heads, even for a moment.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Luezette

[Tortuga]

Interesting thought.  Normally we've told people they had to get married before they could proceed to become a publisher or baptized as a Witness.  Now we have a group of people that we'll tell they must get a divorce if they want to become a publisher or baptized as a Witness.

 

I was thinking the same thing. We have been falsely accused of breaking up marriages in the past but this is a new situation. Being in a heterosexual marriage doesn't prevent one person coming into the truth if the other person doesn't but someone in a homosexual marriage wont be able to get baptized. They will need to divorce to get baptized.  I can see that hitting the news one of these days.

[minister159]

I watched the CBS Morning Show today, and of course, they had a segment on the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage. While we don't impose our views on others or attempt to change the law as some religious organizations do, like the Mormons with proposition 8, we still must obey God as ruler rather than men and pay back God's things to God, as the Supreme Authority. That means, if in the future, there's a conflict with regard to this issue, we must follow our Bible-trained conscience, rather than violate God's law, even at personal cost to ourselves.

 

I thought it was interesting how former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee expressed his viewpoint by saying, "I don't think most of us who ever read the scripture would believe that there is a division over what marriage means. It's still one man, one woman, life partners, and the courts can no more suspend the law of marriage any more than they can suspend the law of gravity."

 

And in Texas, Reverend Dave Welch of the Houston Area Pastor Council vowed disobedience. "A law that violates the law of God is no law at all," he said. "There is no question: it is by the thousands and tens of thousands and the hundreds of thousands that will not bend the knee and we will not kiss the ring. We will not bow to the god of political correctness that seems to be dominating much of our court system today."

 

Correspondent Steve Hartman, after showing homosexual couples getting married and displaying their love openly on the steps of City Halls, said, "I know that still makes some people uncomfortable, but they'll get used to it." That's a pretty bold sweeping statement. I guess he thinks, that now that it's been legalized by the Supreme Court, we have no choice or that we'll eventually see things in the correct light.

 

I think this new ruling is the culmination of a carefully orchestrated movement by homosexual activists over the past 40 years to achieve the parody with heterosexual couples they've clamored for all these years. This, I think, has been their goal all along, not to just be tolerated like your everyday fornicator or adulterer without being persecuted or prosecuted, but to be accepted as full-fledged dignified members of society. They've successfully done this by portraying themselves as the victims of narrow-minded villains, who've discriminated against them and denied them their civil rights, in their unwillingness to accept their perverted lifestyle choice.

 

It's a sad day, but as one gay-rights activist quoted in an earlier post said, in essence, "It's just a beginning. We need to get rid of all Bible-based discrimination." I guess she doesn't realize that man's moral laws have overwhelmingly been based on God's moral laws as stated in the Bible. This has been the accepted standard for Christian morality since it was written. Just because she doesn't agree with it or thinks it doesn't apply to modern society, doesn't nullify it's authority for anyone who wants to please God. 

 

It seems we may see a role reversal here as it happened in the first century, where the persecuted became the persecutors, that is, the persecuted Jews became the persecutors of Christians. Might the gay-rights activists now go on the offensive and seek legal prosecution of all dissenting voices on the basis of anti-discrimination and hate speech laws? Time will tell, but it ain't over yet.

[Luezette]

No Ken, you're right! "It ain't over yet." Just this past week, as I'm walking to my destination at a train station, a female gay couple passed by holding hands. I looked away quickly. This happened prior to them as I was exiting thru a turnstile. Another woman who was by herself saw my look and gave me a look as if I should be ashamed of myself.

This makes me feel now that we heterosexuals are supposed to just accept this and feel absolutely nothing? If we are disgusted (which I am, which we are as in human beings) would that mean then that we are breaking the law? Are you kidding me or what!!?

I know that we as JW are to respect and obey Caesar. That's a given because Jehovah says so. But such respect and obedience is relative as long as it doesn't clash with Jehovah's laws and requirements. So now that homosexuality is legal from Satan's=Caesar law which is obviously against Jehovah's laws, I see some serious trouble brewing!

[Toy Poodles]

I am going to throw this out there to be discussed because it is sortof contradictory when it comes to homosexuals. When there is a couple why is one manly and the other feminine? If they want to be attracted to the same sex then why aren't manly men with manly men and feminine women with feminine women? You usually see that one is manly and the other feminine, so really it is not based on them being attracted to their own sex but they have become debased in their sexual practice. 

[Luezette]

I'm not sure of what to say about the manly vs. feminine thing but I'll say this though.

One day I'm on the train and I thought of what exactly is the attraction. I just couldn't get it (duhhh...of course not!). I looked at a fellow passenger sitting across from me. She was a woman and I said to myself "every woman has the same thing, some more some less but still the same. And why/how could another woman desire the soft embrace of another woman?"

Just then while deep in my thoughts the train stops and...my word! My, my MY! This man gets on and whatta man! Handsome, Tall and...MUSCULAR! "Now THAT is what I'll and any woman should want to lay her head on! Not another woman!

I just don't get it! And never will because it's not Jehovah's will to "get."

The above applies to a man's attraction for another man. The above was just said from my viewpoint as a woman.

[Stavro]

Just this past week, as I'm walking to my destination at a train station, a female gay couple passed by holding hands.

 

Just curious, did they make a public display their relationship, or was it merely assumed by their hand-holding?

 

It's not uncommon for family members to hold hands, especially sisters, though they are sometimes falsely accused of being gay. Regarding those who are gay, what we need to keep in mind is that although the immoral acts are repulsive, we cannot let their private acts affect our view of these potential sheep.

 

*** g 12/10 p. 23 How Can I Explain the Bible’s View of Homosexuality? ***

Shouldn’t Christians treat all people with respect, regardless of their sexual orientation? Absolutely. The Bible says: “Honor men of all sorts” or, as Today’s English Version renders it, “Respect everyone.” (1 Peter 2:17) Therefore, Christians are not homophobic. They show kindness to all people, including those who are gay.—Matthew 7:12.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stavro

[Luezette]

Starvo.It was not merely assumed. Here in NYC, though there may be customs in other parts, certain actions are very clear. And those two women were grown women. (And your apology is accepted! )

I certainly did not disrespect them...as humans. I'm very aware that those women may be potential sheep. However, while if I should have an opportunity to speak with them or others like them as I do if you care to go over my post about a gay RV that I have, I will certainly not hold back. The climate now with this law being passed will definitely bring on more actions that I will admit I displayed, which, by the way, was not disrespectful in any way. It was just a look which I will not apologize for! As a matter of fact, since they feel so emboldened to try to force their lifestyles' viewpoint on others, I really think they had better get used to it even more so!

Edited June 29, 2015 by Luezette

[Stavro]

Starvo.It was not merely assumed. Here in NYC, though there may be customs in other parts, certain actions are very clear. And those two women were grown women.

 

It wasn't my intent to accuse you of anything, what I meant is that otherwise benign actions have been co-opted by the gay community to the extent that straight people are often viewed as homosexual for things that have nothing to do with immorality at all.

 

For example, two middle-aged women walking in a park are holding hands, and someone calls them lesbians. In reality, one is a pioneer, and the other is her fleshly sister, a recent SKE graduate who was visiting just before going to her new assignment.

 

Or how about a single man who does not pursue every woman he sees. To some, this is "proof" that the man is actively pursuing homosexual activities to fulfill his desires. In reality, I had to explain to the elders that I had simply chosen not to pursue any romantic relationship while I'm unable to support a family.

 

Satan has done everything possible to muddy the waters and make us see benign actions as gay. If we buy in to the idea that only gay people show affection, wear bright colors, don't pursue relationships, etc, we can quickly become judgemental towards ones who are committing no serious wrongdoing whatsoever.

[Luezette]

Well, I'm glad you responded back Stavro. Thank you for saying it wasn't your intent to accuse me of anything. I appreciate that.

Like I said though, actions here are pretty clear. I guess being a New Yorker all my life, minus a few stints in Virginia as a child, I can truly say I/we know what we see. True, while we certainly want to avoid miscontruing certains actions, as you have experienced, living in this city has taught a lot. I'm so sorry you have gone through that in more ways than you can Imagine. And now that you've explained what you went through, I understand now why you reacted the way you did.

But I can assure you that what I saw was indeed what I saw.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Luezette

[cricket246]

 A funny thought occurred to me. I wonder how many people who did this just for attention will suddenly lose their appeal for this alternative lifestyle now that's it legal. Kind of like with kids, if you tell them they can't do something it makes it that much more appealing. But if you tell them they can do something, it doesn't interest them because the thrill of not getting caught is gone. I wonder if this might cause some to turn away from being homosexual and come back to their senses? Lol  Just once I wish Satan's plan could backfire on him!

[Luezette]

Natasha, that has occurred to me too.

[cricket246]

Unfortunately I believe This is gonna impact ALOT of witnesses.. Just google Virginia and the "gender identity" classes their making mandatory for all students. The classes will start at kindergarten thru 8th and teach things like gay marriage, the meaning of incest and help kids identify which gender they identify with out of like 100 terms! Plus parents can't opt out -this is sick!

[Tortuga]

Unfortunately I believe This is gonna impact ALOT of witnesses.. Just google Virginia and the "gender identity" classes their making mandatory for all students. The classes will start at kindergarten thru 8th and teach things like gay marriage, the meaning of incest and help kids identify which gender they identify with out of like 100 terms! Plus parents can't opt out -this is sick!

 

Do you mind sharing this on the "How does the law on gay marriage affect you?" thread?

[Luezette]

Natasha! I know you're serious but I just gotta say anyway: ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!? My goodness! Satan is seriously heating up more coals to his sick degrading fire!

[Tia]

Sis,

Thanks so much for giving heads up on this article.  As all of us are so interested in

our little ones!  I googled it and found the article - I just sent it to my daughter and

several close ones I know!  sigh!

 

Now on to "How does the law on gay marriage affect you?" thread!  This may prove to be a hot

one in the ministry!  Already went on a study with a sister that daughter is gay! 

Edited June 30, 2015 by CyreJay

[Shawnster]

Just make sure that article isn't blown out of proportion. Research the subject. Don't blindly accept it is true just because you read it online.

[Tortuga]

Just make sure that article isn't blown out of proportion. Research the subject. Don't blindly accept it is true just because you read it online.

 

True. This was discussed in another thread and there is updated information about it. Parents are currently able to opt their children out of the class but there is a possibility the class will be made part of the Health class and then parents wont be able to opt their children out of it.

[Stavro]

True. This was discussed in another thread and there is updated information about it. Parents are currently able to opt their children out of the class but there is a possibility the class will be made part of the Health class and then parents wont be able to opt their children out of it.

 

This "possibility" is a comment from the leader of an anti-gay lobbyist group, as quoted by a televangelist.

 

Personally, I'd categorize this claim along with claims that legalizing gay marriage will outlaw straight marriage and force non-gays to marry turtles. (Both of which were reported as truth by the same "media" outlet.)

[Tortuga]

This "possibility" is a comment from the leader of an anti-gay lobbyist group, as quoted by a televangelist.

 

Personally, I'd categorize this claim along with claims that legalizing gay marriage will outlaw straight marriage and force non-gays to marry turtles. (Both of which were reported as truth by the same "media" outlet.)

 

Thanks for taking more time to research it than I did. 

[Shawnster]

And if it happens in one school district, this doesn't mean it will be the law of the land in all 50 states and affect Witnesses everywhere.

 

Issues like this happen all the time in one school district or another.  Usually over sex-ed issues.

 

This is nothing new.

[jpcook]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/politics/supreme-court-same-sex-marriage-ruling/index.html

 

 

In a landmark 5-4 opinion, the Supreme Court ruled Friday that states cannot ban same-sex marriage, handing gay rights advocates their biggest victory yet.

 

The Supreme Court also said that abortion is legal, however, that is not how Jehovah views things!

[Shawnster]

Photographer Clinton Lee says his client fired him because he supports same sex-marriage

 

Florida photographer Clinton Brentwood Lee is checking his Facebook page and notices a private message from one of his clients. He's been fired.

The reason: He changed his company's Facebook profile picture, an image of his company's logo, to a logo covered by rainbow colors. He changed the picture in support of same-sex marriage and the Supreme Court's decision on marriage equality.

The client's message states: "Greetings Brentwood. We would just like to inform you that we will NOT be using your services for our wedding. My fiance and I support traditional marriage between a man and a woman and don't want our money going to places that support otherwise. Secondly, I would like to inquire about how we can get our retainer back from you. Thank you."

Lee's response would go viral.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Shawnster

[Allabord4Jah]

Everything is LEGAL in Satan's world, or soon to become legal in other places too.  You can see it going down the "TOILET" and when it is filled to the brim, Jesus will pull the lever and all of it will FLUSH down into the rest of the mire at the other end!   AMEN, AMEN!

[SacramentoBrother]

But one thing that came to mind was now that it's legal everywhere in the U.S. for them, and I think someone here had already mentioned it is this: It'll probably be labeled a hate crime if we (as in people not just JW) show any type of disdain? I'm just guessing. Now we're (again as in people) "have" to accept it since it's legal? If we're (this time we as in JW), introduced to them as husband/husband or wife/wife, do we have to say "nice to meet you" as we would a husband/wife? I just can't see myself doing that! I just can't! Maybe I'm just putting the cart before the horse.

 

Two scriptures can help guide us during these uncertain times.

 

(Romans 13:1) Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 

(Acts 5:29) We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

 

During Jesus day the High Priests basically were law makers so when they demanded Peter and his companions stop their preaching activity effectively they were making law. We know how Peter responded. Romans 13:1 and Acts 5:29 have always been a measure to help us. We will always obey the laws of the land as long as they don't conflict with God's law. A legal marriage between a man and woman is something honorable and fully supported by Jehovah God. Homosexual marriages conflict with God's laws. So while we respect individual people we absolutely do not need to compromise our beliefs towards gay marriages like the rest of society has. Besides unless we have relatives who are now "legally" gay married most of us will never have to deal with it directly. Personally if the subject comes up in the field I'm just going avoid it and concentrate on the Kingdom message and blessings. Besides, after all, the kingdom is why we go out in service right?

 

However, Jehovah is aware of what's going and I have no doubts that he will eventually help the governing body clarify matters for us just like they did back during the neutrality issue and flag saluting, and just like the ancient governing body did during the circumcision issue. All we need to do is "Stand firm and see the salvation of Jehovah." (Exodus 14:13)