New airline, is this a joke ?

[New World Explorer]

I have surely missed something Where did any one here "defend Sharia law"???

I see where someone send - they could still ride on this plane. I too could ride on this plane - as I also would not do anything "illegal", but "DEFEND Sharia law"???? What did I miss?

EDIT: "have some ham and bacon" - said in a voice to sound like "As-salamu alaykum"

I used wrong "word" by saying "defend" therefore you did not miss anything LOL

I would not fly this airline but that's my personal choice and I respect views of others who would choose differently

I feel that introducing part of Sharia Law for public is one step too far because if I pay my ticket and order beer I should get it

I still think it's a joke when it comes to business ... For me it's just ridiculous

Well how some would feel if Australia introduced new airline and only option for food is bacon with cold beer .. I can see that some would object this or shook thier heads saying that this must be a joke ... Would members of certain religion fly on that airline ? In both cases it's all about imposing things on others .

Edited December 23, 2015 by Gregexplore

[Hope]

I haven't seen even one defense of their law.  But if there is no beer to order, no one will be drinking it..  ;)

 

I also know that despite the challenges, there are many former Muslims counted amongst our brothers and sisters.. so, they ARE being preached to all over the world.  Jehovah calls us all!  

Edited December 23, 2015 by Hope

[timpin]

excuse me but is this the thread where we cast our lot in for Trump?   

 

 

opps wrong thread

 

               opps wrond site

 

                                    ops

[New World Explorer]

I haven't seen even one defense of their law.  But if there is no beer to order, no one will be drinking it..  ;)

 

I also know that despite the challenges, there are many former Muslims counted amongst our brothers and sisters.. so, they ARE being preached to all over the world.  Jehovah calls us all!  

I preach to muslims also but this topic is not about preaching dear sister Its about Sharia Law on the plane

Edited December 24, 2015 by Gregexplore

[New World Explorer]

This is interesting point : since introducing Sharia Law on the plane is motivated by religious motives then choosing to fly on such plane would not indicate "silent support" to that religious system ?

We wouldn't paint or do any work on the Christendom church for instance ..

 

 

I am not dogmatic on this subject but just throwing this question up to discussion dear friends

I am interested in responses

[vern]

If Witnesses want to be respected then we have to be respectful.  This thread started disrespectful.  I'll just assume out in service you all behave differently.

The muslim law can be very extreme and very disturbing.  Problem is i can't account for true knowledge on the internet as opposed to propaganda. and the extremists does not account for all who are not extremists.  Perhaps Jehovah will destabilize all those lands that seem to still have the death penalty for leaving Islam.  Perhaps they will learn enough about Jehovah somehow to be able to call on his name.  Either way we are still commanded to be peaceful.

[Hope]

I preach to muslims also but this topic is not about preaching dear sister Its about Sharia Law on the plane

 

I do know this, brother -- I was referencing Sister Gi-Gi's comment.  

[New World Explorer]

If Witnesses want to be respected then we have to be respectful.  This thread started disrespectful.  I'll just assume out in service you all behave differently.

The muslim law can be very extreme and very disturbing.  Problem is i can't account for true knowledge on the internet as opposed to propaganda. and the extremists does not account for all who are not extremists.  Perhaps Jehovah will destabilize all those lands that seem to still have the death penalty for leaving Islam.  Perhaps they will learn enough about Jehovah somehow to be able to call on his name.  Either way we are still commanded to be peaceful.

I am respectful to Muslim people in fact part of my wife's distant family are muslims and I have been to their house for dinner couple times and spoke to them about Jehovah and the Bible

Older men (grandpa) was very lovely ...  this thread has nothing to do with respect to Muslims but "introducing Sharia Law to public service"

In what way do I show disrespect if I think that this is not proper ? I am talking about "business decision" and its on the border of discrimination for those who have nothing to do with sharia Law ..

[Shawnster]

I used wrong "word" by saying "defend" therefore you did not miss anything LOL

I would not fly this airline but that's my personal choice and I respect views of others who would choose differently

I feel that introducing part of Sharia Law for public is one step too far because if I pay my ticket and order beer I should get it

I still think it's a joke when it comes to business ... For me it's just ridiculous

Well how some would feel if Australia introduced new airline and only option for food is bacon with cold beer .. I can see that some would object this or shook thier heads saying that this must be a joke ... Would members of certain religion fly on that airline ? In both cases it's all about imposing things on others .

 

Yes, if you pay your ticket and order a beer, you should get it.  However, on this airline, they don't serve beer so it's not available to order.  

 

There are plenty of places that don't server alcohol.  There are plenty of places that tailor their options in other areas.  This particular airline is tailoring their services to appeal to devout Muslims.  It's no different than any other business that targets specific groups.  

 

 

I am respectful to Muslim people in fact part of my wife's distant family are muslims and I have been to their house for dinner couple times and spoke to them about Jehovah and the Bible

Older men (grandpa) was very lovely ...  this thread has nothing to do with respect to Muslims but "introducing Sharia Law to public service"

In what way do I show disrespect if I think that this is not proper ? I am talking about "business decision" and its on the border of discrimination for those who have nothing to do with sharia Law ..

 

Is this the first time Sharia Law has been introduced to public service?  Aren't Sharia Laws introduced to the public in the Middle East already?  

 

More importantly, why is this even an issue among us Christians who are neutral to the affairs of this world?  Shouldn't we be neutral when it comes to the introduction of Sharia Law in public? 

 

Does this airline service anywhere  you go or would want to go?  What are the odds that you'd ever be confronted with the option to purchase a ticket on this airline?  

This is interesting point : since introducing Sharia Law on the plane is motivated by religious motives then choosing to fly on such plane would not indicate "silent support" to that religious system ?

We wouldn't paint or do any work on the Christendom church for instance ..

 

 

I am not dogmatic on this subject but just throwing this question up to discussion dear friends

I am interested in responses

 

 

Interesting question.  Let's look at something similar and see what conclusions we can reach.

 

*** w90 2/15 pp. 16-17 par. 7 ‘Discerning What We Are’—At Memorial Time ***

7 Jesus used unleavened bread in the Lord’s Evening Meal, so Jehovah’s Witnesses today do likewise. Regular Jewish matzoth serve this purpose if they are not made with added ingredients, such as malt, onions, or eggs. (Matzoth containing those supplements would hardly match the description “bread of affliction.”) Or the congregation elders may have someone make unleavened bread from a dough of wheat flour and water. If wheat flour is not available, unfermented bread can be made with flour from barley, rice, corn, or another grain. The dough is rolled thin and baked on a lightly oiled cooking sheet.

 

Matzoh bread is an unleavened bread traditionally eaten by Jews during the Passover festival, when chametz (bread and other food made with leaven) is forbidden according to Jewish religious law.  Now, the making and selling of this type of bread is motivated by religious motives.  Would choosing to eat this bread or to use this bread for the Memorial indicate "silent support" of this religious system?

 

Interestingly 1 Corinthians 10:29 was cited earlier in this discussion.  Let's look at the entire scripture.

 

(1 Corinthians 10:25-30) 25 Eat whatever is sold in a meat market, making no inquiry because of your conscience, 26 for “to Jehovah belong the earth and everything in it.” 27 If an unbeliever invites you and you want to go, eat whatever is set before you, making no inquiry on account of your conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This is something offered in sacrifice,” do not eat because of the one who told you and because of conscience. 29 I do not mean your own conscience, but that of the other person. For why should my freedom be judged by another person’s conscience? 30 If I am partaking with thanks, why am I to be spoken of abusively over that for which I give thanks?

 

If you'll notice in vs. 28 and 29 Jehovah's direction is that we should be mindful of the consciences of others.  Vs. 25 is clear that the meat was fine to eat (provided it was properly bled) no matter the source.  However, if our brother might be stumbled by our eating of this meat, then we should avoid it.  

 

To extend this scripture to apply to Halal foods or flying on this particular airline would mean that, while it's fine and acceptable to do these things, if it stumbles our brother, then we should avoid doing so.  At the same time, it is wrong for us to impose our consciences onto others.  If our brother chooses to eat Halal foods or fly this airline, we are not to judge and we are not to condemn.  

 

I'm glad you're not being dogmatic on this and you're open to discussion.  It's good to get a variety of opinions and points of view on a topic like this.  Maybe you've found some research in the Society's publications, or the Bible, that you can add to the conversation.  

Edited December 24, 2015 by Shawnster

[New World Explorer]

Yes, if you pay your ticket and order a beer, you should get it.  However, on this airline, they don't serve beer so it's not available to order.  

 

There are plenty of places that don't server alcohol.  There are plenty of places that tailor their options in other areas.  This particular airline is tailoring their services to appeal to devout Muslims.  It's no different than any other business that targets specific groups.  

For me this is very silly ! What about simple choices then .. If you want to order beer than you can have it  ...  if you want to stick to sharia law ..don't order it ! simple !

Bringing religion on plane is so wrong on many levels

[Stavro]

This is interesting point : since introducing Sharia Law on the plane is motivated by religious motives then choosing to fly on such plane would not indicate "silent support" to that religious system ?

 

Does someone support Christendom when they purchase anything from Hobby Lobby, Chick-fil-A, Interstate Batteries, Tyson Foods, or any of the thousands of other companies that spend a major portion of their revenue supporting false religious beliefs?

[New World Explorer]

Does someone support Christendom when they purchase anything from Hobby Lobby, Chick-fil-A, Interstate Batteries, Tyson Foods, or any of the thousands of other companies that spend a major portion of their revenue supporting false religious beliefs?

Good point ! but they support religious system indirectly ..Sharia Law is introduced to this airline directly ...

Imagine the airline run by Vatican with it's traditions on the plane  (whatever the form) would you feel at ease on such airplane  ?

Business should be about public service to all ...  for me this airline went to far with their decisions ...

[Shawnster]

Good point ! but they support religious system indirectly ..Sharia Law is introduced to this airline directly ...

Imagine the airline run by Vatican with it's traditions on the plane  (whatever the form) would you feel at ease on such airplane  ?

Business should be about public service to all ...  for me this airline went to far with their decisions ...

 

Interesting.  I wonder if people are confusing the point.  It's one thing to have an airline that follows Sharia Law in banning alcohol and serving Halal foods.  This isn't requiring someone to actively participate in any religious activities.  I mean, plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses avoid alcohol and eat foods that would be considered by some to be Halal (as we discussed, there are varying degrees of Halal).  

 

It's quite another thing, however, to require passengers to actively participate in religious activities or services during a flight.  Could you imagine a Catholic flight requiring passengers to accept the Eucharist or say 100 Hail Mary's before boarding?

 

 

For me this is very silly ! What about simple choices then .. If you want to order beer than you can have it  ...  if you want to stick to sharia law ..don't order it ! simple !

Bringing religion on plane is so wrong on many levels

 

I couldn't agree more!  It's all about simple choices.  If you want to fly with an airline that follows Sharia Law, then do so.  If you don't want to, then choose another airline.  Simple!

[Shawnster]

Good point ! but they support religious system indirectly ..Sharia Law is introduced to this airline directly ...

Imagine the airline run by Vatican with it's traditions on the plane  (whatever the form) would you feel at ease on such airplane  ?

Business should be about public service to all ...  for me this airline went to far with their decisions ...

 

Do you suppose there are Jehovah's Witnesses living in Muslim lands that frequent establishments that follow Sharia Law?

 

How many places in the Middle East do NOT follow Sharia Law I wonder?  

[New World Explorer]

Do you suppose there are Jehovah's Witnesses living in Muslim lands that frequent establishments that follow Sharia Law?

 

How many places in the Middle East do NOT follow Sharia Law I wonder?  

Local businesses are serving local populace

Airline offers services to broad populations from different cultures etc

Big difference

[Shawnster]

Rayani Air will initially serve the domestic routes in the predominantly Muslim northern states of Kedah and Kelantan, as well as the eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, managing director Jaafar Zamhari told the DPA news agency on Tuesday.

 

The airline does not allow alcohol to be consumed on its flights and serves only halal food, Jaafar said.

 

Sharia is Islamic law based on the teachings of the Koran, and governs many day-to-day practices for observant Muslims.

 

"We are not talking about being a holy airline or flying to holy destinations. We just want to provide an alternative to travellers, but we are open to all races and religions."

 

Jaafar Zamhari, Rayani's managing director

 

"It is compulsory for our Muslim women cabin crew to wear hijab and for non-Muslims to wear a decent uniform," he added.

 

Jaafar added that there are also prayers and recitals before each flight departs.

 

The new airline has 355 employees, which includes eight pilots and 50 cabin crew.

 

Rayani Air's fleet consists of two Boeing 737-400 aircraft, he added.

 

The airline plans to expand its network in Asia next year and  to introduce flights to Saudi Arabia for the Umrah and Hajj.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/compliant-airline-takes-malaysia-151223095805246.html

Edited December 24, 2015 by Shawnster

[New World Explorer]

Going on holidays in few hours .. packing cold beer

No Sharia Law where I am going ... LOL

 

hope there is wi-fi there ..  !!!

 

 

Rayani Air will initially serve the domestic routes in the predominantly Muslim northern states of Kedah and Kelantan, as well as the eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, managing director Jaafar Zamhari told the DPA news agency on Tuesday.

 

The airline does not allow alcohol to be consumed on its flights and serves only halal food, Jaafar said.

 

Sharia is Islamic law based on the teachings of the Koran, and governs many day-to-day practices for observant Muslims.

 

"We are not talking about being a holy airline or flying to holy destinations. We just want to provide an alternative to travellers, but we are open to all races and religions."

 

Jaafar Zamhari, Rayani's managing director

 

"It is compulsory for our Muslim women cabin crew to wear hijab and for non-Muslims to wear a decent uniform," he added.

 

Jaafar added that there are also prayers and recitals before each flight departs.

 

The new airline has 355 employees, which includes eight pilots and 50 cabin crew.

 

Rayani Air's fleet consists of two Boeing 737-400 aircraft, he added.

 

The airline plans to expand its network in Asia next year and  to introduce flights to Saudi Arabia for the Umrah and Hajj.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/compliant-airline-takes-malaysia-151223095805246.html

 

initially serve the domestic routes...  no more to say.

[MzT]

Local businesses are serving local populace

Airline offers services to broad populations from different cultures etc

Big difference

Well not really. Consider that the four airlines that apply Sharia law service areas that are traveled by the mass of travelers who are Muslim. All clearly serve routes with a specific destination and need in mind. The only reason I could think to use any of the Airlines was if I was assigned to preach in those regions. Or I had an idea to travel into the heart of predominantly devout Muslim destinations. Or you had family living in those areas. Outside those reasons, I highly doubt any of the Airlines would pop up as a choice when considering travels to typical tourist destinations.

Specially airlines that service a specific group or travel needs is not a new idea.

[MzT]

Just as a thought, one reason Airlines like this won't service typical large city destinations because by applying their own laws, they cannot break the discrimation laws of the countries they travel between.

Kuwait Airlines has withdrawn their status that allows flights between New York and London. The laws of their country forbid flying Israelis and the laws within the U.S. do not allow Airlines to discriminate. This just happened here in NYC. http://nypost.com/2015/12/17/jew-hating-airline-cancels-flight-rather-than-allow-israeli-passengers/

[carlos]

I don't understand the controversy.

 

This airline offers flights which follow the Sharia. If you need to fly within Indonesia and are ok with that, go and buy a ticket. If you find those conditions unacceptable, fly with a different company. It's that simple. There should be no controversy as long as no one tries to impose their view on others.

 

I admit I strongly dislike Islam, and I would be the one to choose a different airline. But I don't follow the argument that since you pay you have the right to order a beer. You cannot order a beer at MacDonalds (well, in Spain you can but not in America). Why? Because MacDonalds is targetted at children and families. This airline is targetted at Muslim customers, and it's tailored to their likings.

 

Is it silly to mix religion and business? Well, it certainly is when your customers are from different backgrounds, but it is not when you are targetting a particular group of people. I feel nauseated when my workmates bring a blood sausage sandwich for breakfast. If there was an airline where most passengers were Witnesses I would expect no blood sausage sandwiches were available to avoid disgusting most customers.

[Trina]

I don't have a problem with Islamic law when it comes to being modest but I have a BIG problem with the way women are mistreated within this religion. Men can throw a woman out by divorce but women can't get a divorce for any reason even abuse and men are allowed up to 4 wives which they are permitted to beat by this law. The most grotesque part of this religion is that they perform female genital mutilation on poor little girls at a certain age they feel they are ready for marriage, and sadly many many die from this or are deformed for life.

So I can tell you I don't like this with a clean conscience of not being prejudice but just for humane reasons.

[Hope]

FGM is not an Islamic requirement. It's part of the culture of the countries that do it. Not every Muslim country engages in that horrific practice.

[Trina]

This was just a quick internet search but I'm not putting the address just because there are some graphic information in the information that is not necessary for our discussion.

Religious views on female genital mutilation (FGM) vary even within the same religious tradition. FGM is found only within and adjacent to Muslim communities,[1] but the practice predates Islam. [2] The only Jewish group known to have practiced it are the Beta Israel of Ethiopia.[3] There is no unequivocal link between religion and prevalence.[4]

It is generally accepted that there is no close link between the practice and religious belief. Despite this, there is a widespread view in several countries, particularly in Mali, Eritrea, Mauritania, Guinea and Egypt, that FGM is a religious requirement.[5]

Historical religious views Edit

The historical religious view of Islam, on FGM, varies with the school of Islamic jurisprudence:[21]

The Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be wajib (obligatory).[22]

The Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be makrumah (honorable)

and strongly encouraged, to obligatory.[23]

The Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (optional) and preferred.[23]

The Hanafi school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (preferred).[23]

Sunni view Edit

There are dichotomous differences of opinion among Sunni scholars in regards to female genital cutting.[24] These differences of opinion range from obligatory to acceptable. The Shafi'i and Hanbali schools of Islamic jurisprudence consider circumcision to be obligatory for both males and females, while the Hanafi and Maliki schools of Islamic jurisprudence consider circumcision to be Sunnah (preferred) for both males and females.[25] There is no consensus whether the hadiths support or forbid FGM.[26][27] Different schools of Islamic jurisprudence have expressed different views on FGM.[17][28][29]

All I can say is...I can hear all the women that worship the true God Jehovah say thank you for loving us and caring so deeply for us and treating us so kindly. Thank you Jehovah!

[ChocoBro]

I did not know this...I preached to one about a month ago. Wow

 

Let me guess. You preached to a muslim outside of a country with Sharia law?

 

You'd have to be more careful if you lived in, say, the Islamic State, Saudi-Arabia or even Malaysia.

 

We used to live in Malaysia and were allowed to preach to those of Hindus and Chinese origin only. Please keep in mind that Malaysia is one of the most open-minded muslim nations in the world. In many countries, the Sharia apostasy law is a very serious deal, and many ex-muslim brothers are very careful about talking about their change of faith in public. Like I said, countless people have been murdered because of it, it would be better not to downplay it.

Edited December 26, 2015 by ChocoBro

[vern]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#/media/File%3AApostasy_laws_in_2013.SVG


In the years 1985-2006, four individuals were executed by governments for apostasy. ^[21] Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy in Islam through their criminal laws.<sup>[30]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#/image/File:Muslim_majority_countries_and_death_penalty_for_apostasy.png</sup>

 

^{maby non governmental mobs are killing poeple.}