Who would go to one of my live shows?

[Brother_Bliss]

On 9/23/2016 at 2:19 PM, Hope said:

One of my favorite district overseers, Charles Jackson, gave a very fine talk about 20 years ago at our circuit assembly.  I don't remember the title or most of the content but the point that has stuck in my brain all this time is this:  "Jehovah's Witnesses aren't Witnesses because we can't do anything else.  We have such talent, intelligence, artistic and engineering abilities, so many incredible careers put to the side for the Truth.  Jehovah knows this and He appreciate our sacrifice... these things are what He created us to do.  Not the preaching work, not really.  But that's what's necessary not and we need to keep our focus.  Not much longer before we can really be all that we're supposed to be."  Those words mean so much to me.

 

I really liked that quote. It's gone into my "Save" file for use in a talk of my own at a later time.

 

Quote

I know a lot of Witnesses who are musicians, singers.  Particularly in the Chicago area, I'm always hearing about performances, shows, etc... friends do it.  I love working with other JWs (although the drama is there, as well...  ).  At least with us, we have a common sense of what's right and wrong, not blowing off meetings/ministry for gigs, avoiding questionable material/venues.

 

 

I've heard of a congregation where there were some brothers who had gotten into the music industry in some sort of manner and their elders were coming down hard on them to the point where the a Circuit Overseer, from another area where it was more common, was brought in to talk to these elders and help readjust their needless pressure they were exerting on these musicians.

 

It's funny how things vary by area. Kinda like.... beards

 

[Mykyl]

3 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

I really liked that quote. It's gone into my "Save" file for use in a talk of my own at a later time.

 

 

 

I've heard of a congregation where there were some brothers who had gotten into the music industry in some sort of manner and their elders were coming down hard on them to the point where the a Circuit Overseer, from another area where it was more common, was brought in to talk to these elders and help readjust their needless pressure they were exerting on these musicians.

 

It's funny how things vary by area. Kinda like.... beards

 

It's also interesting how some see it as needless pressure and others see it as trying to protect others. Something that elders are responsible for.

Not saying that pressure should be put on others but perhaps the suggestion from articles etc was an attempt at kindness done in a wrong way.

Nobody can say it's a good idea to try and make a career in this old system now can they? A job that pays the bills yep but a career? This system is going down.

Music and touring and band life are one of the things that kept me out the truth for so long. A nice distraction from the real worthwhile life.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Mykyl

[Mykyl]

45 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

It's also interesting how some see it as needless pressure and others see it as trying to protect others. Something that elders are responsible for.

Not saying that pressure should be put on others but perhaps the suggestion from articles etc was an attempt at kindness done in a wrong way.

Nobody can say it's a good idea to try and make a career in this old system now can they? A job that pays the bills yep but a career? This system is going down.

Music and touring and band life are one of the things that kept me out the truth for so long. A nice distraction from the real worthwhile life.

 

Just wanted to add this.

 

I'm not saying being a touring musician will make a person leave the truth or anything like that but it does have unique pressures that are best avoided if possible as others have mentioned. Being grabbed and prodded in areas that would have a man arrested for assault if he was to do the same to a woman,  clothes being stolen. Yep a crazy life and not one that can be described fully to those who have not experienced it.

Singing in front of thousands, venues packed out, hiding behind a stage persona... I can feel my heart rate rise remembering the feelings. To much of a pull for me. Oh and that's without gaining any huge amounts of fame? I don't tend to drink anything alchoholic now a days because of what I witnessed during those days. I like to keep my wits about me.

 

I love guitar by the way and that first video posted by Sharon was stunning. I love hearing music played live as long as the performer puts on a performance. Otherwise I may as well save money and listen to it at home. ;) I don't enjoy the atmosphere so much nowadays.

 

Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not do. Just a heads up. That's all. Plus I always seem to have some experience in many things. That because I love to try many things. One of my many issues... Jack of all trades and master of none.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Mykyl

[Jean Valjean]

12 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

I really liked that quote. It's gone into my "Save" file for use in a talk of my own at a later time.

 

 

 

I've heard of a congregation where there were some brothers who had gotten into the music industry in some sort of manner and their elders were coming down hard on them to the point where the a Circuit Overseer, from another area where it was more common, was brought in to talk to these elders and help readjust their needless pressure they were exerting on these musicians.

 

It's funny how things vary by area. Kinda like.... beards

 

Right I have the common sense not to blow off meetings and etc... but I'm on planning on playing at cafe type venues like Starbucks.

[Jean Valjean]

8 hours ago, Mykyl said:

Just wanted to add this.

 

I'm not saying being a touring musician will make a person leave the truth or anything like that but it does have unique pressures that are best avoided if possible as others have mentioned. Being grabbed and prodded in areas that would have a man arrested for assault if he was to do the same to a woman,  clothes being stolen. Yep a crazy life and not one that can be described fully to those who have not experienced it.

Singing in front of thousands, venues packed out, hiding behind a stage persona... I can feel my heart rate rise remembering the feelings. To much of a pull for me. Oh and that's without gaining any huge amounts of fame? I don't tend to drink anything alchoholic now a days because of what I witnessed during those days. I like to keep my wits about me.

 

I love guitar by the way and that first video posted by Sharon was stunning. I love hearing music played live as long as the performer puts on a performance. Otherwise I may as well save money and listen to it at home. ;) I don't enjoy the atmosphere so much nowadays.

 

Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not do. Just a heads up. That's all. Plus I always seem to have some experience in many things. That because I love to try many things. One of my many issues... Jack of all trades and master of none.

 

Even if a witness did touring locally that would not be wrong but up to their conscience; Did you look at my SoundCloud? 

[Jean Valjean]

On 9/23/2016 at 3:33 AM, Stormswift said:

I don't think anyone would want you to waste your talents, they are indeed special gifts, we all have these special gifts. I think the essence of what everyone is saying is go into this with eyes wide open ... talk to those who have been through it ... and to keep an even keel spiritually, which is of course most important even more important than using any skills, abilities or talents we all have. To do that as suggested above research what the society says on going into this type of industry and read experiences. If you do this prayerfully and with Jehovah's perspective  then the decision you arrive at should be the right one.

 

I draw portraits, and  art is another extremely difficult field to break into and make an income from ... i would have loved to have had an income from my art - and sometimes it's helped me get to conventions even, but realistically i have had to put my dreams on becoming a famous artist aside, but it's not wasting my talent, as I spend time teaching children how to draw and I know I can pick up drawing again in the new system, and for me that is the real life and art is going to have a deeper meaning then, and it won't be in return for an income to live in this horrible system. 

 

Just all aspects to consider ... and i certainly wish you well and hope the decisions you make will help you on your journey to the new system ... all my aroha to you. 

Thanks, any job can be considered a spiritual danger environment; 

[Hope]

Most jobs/careers don't inspire the kind of heartfelt, soul enriching devotion and results that a creative job does. Something that good makes you want to do more of it... as often as possible. 

 

It can be done but it's very seductive.  Let the one who thinks he's standing beware he doesn't fall.

[Stormswift]

1 hour ago, Michael Schriner said:

Thanks, any job can be considered a spiritual danger environment; 

Yes anything that attaches you with the world has its dangers, but the entertaiment business is on the top of the list.  Theres a huge difference between taking a job to make ends meet and making a  career in this system just be sure you know the difference, a career  becomes 24/7. All the best though. Remember no-one plans to drift out of the truth it just happens sometimes. 

[Brother_Bliss]

On 9/25/2016 at 2:53 AM, Mykyl said:

It's also interesting how some see it as needless pressure and others see it as trying to protect others.

 

 

Well I did qualify it with the word "needless" for a reason. Not allowing someone to comment or be on the school or go out in the ministry because they are in a band is needless pressure, especially when the brothers played kept it very clean and played nice music and did not play in the dirtiest of venues. And there was a reason that a CO had to be brought in to say "Down boy!" to the ravenous elder body, lol

[Brother_Bliss]

It's funny how various people view certain things.

 

I have pursued a career. I am a ceramic tile craftsmen and marble and stone artisan. I own my own business and have several people working for me.

 

Another local brother is an RN. Another is an architect, the biggest in the area. Another is a lawyer.

 

This "career" vs "job" stuff is gobbledygook. Taco Bell is a job. Anything skilled trade or particular field that you plan on doing longer than you live in your parents basement is a career.

[Friends just call me Ross]

2 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

Anything skilled trade or particular field that you plan on doing longer than you live in your parents basement is a career.

[Thesauron]

It's funny how various people view certain things.
 
I have pursued a career. I am a ceramic tile craftsmen and marble and stone artisan. I own my own business and have several people working for me.
 
Another local brother is an RN. Another is an architect, the biggest in the area. Another is a lawyer.
 
This "career" vs "job" stuff is gobbledygook. Taco Bell is a job. Anything skilled trade or particular field that you plan on doing longer than you live in your parents basement is a career.

Career might also mean how you view it - is it your main focus? I might be a musician, but my main focus, my career, is as a full time minister.

[Brother_Bliss]

37 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Career might also mean how you view it - is it your main focus? I might be a musician, but my main focus, my career, is as a full time minister.

 

And if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical.

[Thesauron]

 
And if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical.

If we'd always go for practical, life would be much different. Practical would be to do the laundry on Saturday mornings instead of RV's. It would be really practical to go swimming on Wednesday mornings instead of doing public witnessing. Or go to a 9-5 job instead of hitting the RTO to do voice recordings. We do what's best, not what's practical. We do what our health and circumstances allow us to do - the best, not the most practical.

[Hope]

32 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

And if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical.

Exactly.  I think of a "career" as one's occupation, what you put on the form when it's asked what you do for a living.  I am an executive assistant (secretary).  That is how I earn my living.  I might do other things to earn money (sing, drive for Uber/Lyft) but my training and vocation is as an assistant.  My "job" is the place where I work.  What Johan describes is not even feasible for most - let alone practical... and no -- most people DO do the practical things.  Very often NOT the "best".  Sounds nice, tho!  

 

I'd love to be a regular pioneer one day (I am reg aux now).  However, unless I marry someone who can support me, I will NEVER be able to consider that my "career" - maybe it can be my "vocation"?.... if it came between that and working to support myself, unfortunately, pioneering will have to drop.   

 

Back to topic, however - my being an assistant will NEVER inspire the kind of dangerous joy and commitment becoming a career musician/singer would.  This past Saturday night after a driving shift, I stopped by a monthly singer's "jam session" at a local repertory theater.  Think - karaoke, but with people who can actually sing and an accompanist who can sight read any music put in front of him.  It was an evening of opera singers, theatre singers, nightclub singers singing everything from selections from "Hamilton" to "Tosca"... with a jazz number and Disney tune from me thrown in for good measure.

 

It was sublime, being surrounded by these supportive artists.    I think I can indulge this once a month.  Any more, though.... *sigh*  

Edited September 26, 2016 by Hope

[Stormswift]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

Career might also mean how you view it - is it your main focus? I might be a musician, but my main focus, my career, is as a full time minister.

Exactly - my carreer is being a secretary, i've done extensive training, but I don't view it as my career, I use my skills to get work for my family. My career is being a Jehovah's witness, that is what is first in my life. I certainly didn't mean that being a builder or electrician or someone who tinkers with tiles as not being proper. Thank you for getting me Brother Johan.

 

And if a musician can make a 'lifestyle' choice and able to support thier family and still put Jehovah first, then good on them, but in my experience those who can do that, have had to do the hard hauls first, either prior to coming into the truth or in a period where they had to put the music first. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Stormswift

[Stormswift]

34 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

And if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical.

You don't have to be a pioneer to make being a Jehovah's Witness a career, that's what they mean by having the pioneer spirit. Supporting the congregation in any way you can ... by encouraging, helping new ones and young ones. 

[Thesauron]

You don't have to be a pioneer to make being a Jehovah's Witness a career, that's what they mean by having the pioneer spirit. Supporting the congregation in any way you can ... by encouraging, helping new ones and young ones. 

Yes, so if all you can do is 15 minutes of witnessing to a nurse from your bedside, make that the most important thing you do, and if you do it every month it will be your career to do holy service to Jehovah. Everything else is a temporary thing. And don't feel bad because couldn't be a pioneer. You too did your very best. Not what was most practical.

[leoperales]

33 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

If we'd always go for practical, life would be much different. Practical would be to do the laundry on Saturday mornings instead of RV's. It would be really practical to go swimming on Wednesday mornings instead of doing public witnessing. Or go to a 9-5 job instead of hitting the RTO to do voice recordings. We do what's best, not what's practical. We do what our health and circumstances allow us to do - the best, not the most practical.

Johan, so you're a remote bethelite then? 

[Brother_Bliss]

 

Practical: "relating to what is real rather than to what is possible or imagined"

 

- Courtesy of Merriam Webster Dictionary

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/practical

 

My statement still stands, namely, if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical. Just ask all the mouths I have to feed.

[Hope]

2 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

Practical: "relating to what is real rather than to what is possible or imagined"

 

- Courtesy of Merriam Webster Dictionary

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/practical

 

My statement still stands, namely, if someone can make full-time service their career, that's wonderful. For most of us, it's not practical. Just ask all the mouths I have to feed.

...or even one's own mouth!  

 

It's probably just semantics.  Or personal definitions.  I've never equated a "pioneer spirit" to equalling having pioneering as one's career.  If one is a full-time pioneer and doesn't have to work secularly then yes, that's their career (to me).  Career = using the training you have to earn your keep.  I guess I separate my spiritual life from my secular life to a greater degree than some.  I'm ALWAYS one of Jehovah's Witnesses... that's as constant as my name always being Uani.  That's always "first"... but it's not on the same level with my occupation.

 

What's "first" there is my being an administrative assistant.  I may do other things for money but if someone asks what I do for a living, that's what I say.  Being a pioneer would be who I am, not what I do - if that makes sense.

[Astrid]

I don't see being a witness for Jehovah as my career, it's much more than that: it's who I am, it's my whole life. It's what is above all.  But I have to earn a living and work, and that is my career, a part in my life as a witness for Jehovah. 

 

 I've been working for the same company since 2004 (invoice verification + purchasing department) 

[Stormswift]

2 hours ago, Astrid said:

I don't see being a witness for Jehovah as my career, it's much more than that: it's who I am, it's my whole life. It's what is above all.  But I have to earn a living and work, and that is my career, a part in my life as a witness for Jehovah. 

 

 I've been working for the same company since 2004 (invoice verification + purchasing department) 

Neither do I ... my secular career choice ... even though I wanted to pioneer was to go into admin work, online transcription, legal and medical secretary, but my whole idea was to use this to support my true vocation or carrer, full=time pioneering, which i did = including both reg and reg aux for almost ten years, until I got sick. So now ... I still see it as my career, just I can't do the hours, so I use my time to the fullest I can and support the pioneers when I can. So I guess its a part-time career. Choosing your life in Jehovahs service, as you all know, changes what choices you make in the secular world. 

 

If I wasn't a witness I would have chosen to be a forensic artist, some who reconstructs either suspects or victims of crimes. But because i wanted pioneering as my career i chose a secular career to support myself.  So i don't see being a Jehovah's witness as a career that is my 24/7 life, but I have chosen jobs to support the witnessing work. Of course this varies for everyone according to their circumstances and goals.

 

I use the illustration of a career when it comes to pioneering because that is how our instructors at the pioneer school described it. 

[Brother_Bliss]

Many make the full-time ministry their career, and I applaud them. I would too, but given the my personal circumstances, it's not practical ;)

[Stormswift]

16 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

Many make the full-time ministry their career, and I applaud them. I would too, but given the my personal circumstances, it's not practical ;)

As it is for many especially when families are involved.  But we are all viewed as having the same value in Jehovah's eyes, and I'll pop an exception in here, unless we choose a career that we allow ourselves to be taken away from Jehovah. So it's not about which career at the end of the day, it's about where our heart lies. If our lies with Jehovah we wouldn't allow ourselves to get involved in a career that carries heavy risks (more than other careers) of doing just that. That's why prayerfully considering our options along with research is essential.