The NFL Has Decided to Fine Teams if Players Kneel During the National Anthem

[dove]

6 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

 

And, if anyone comments that the media are the catalyst for all the fuss - what do they say ..... Freedom of Speech/Press

Like the paparazzi or telephone marketers....they really should come under a Harassment law..the aggressors are the ones getting the freedom while taking away the freedoms of peace and privacy from their targets..

[Bob]

11 hours ago, Shawnster said:

 

 

 

Those freedoms private businesses have that governments do not are also limited.  Yes, an employer can legally prevent a witness from preaching while on the clock, but said employer cannot legally implement a policy that forces a Christian to lose the right to not engage or perform certain tasks. 

 

An employer does not have the right to force anyone to lie or steal. 

 

An employer does not have the right to force a Christian medical worker to perform an abortion or give a blood transfusion. 

 

An employer does not have the right to force anyone to stand for the anthem.  Yes, staying in the locker room is an alternative but I'm not sure about the legality of that. 

 

https://mission-bbq.com/why-do-we-salute-the-national-anthem-every-day

 

This restaurant chain plays the national anthem daily.  In addition to the NFL, all sporting events play the anthem.  The people employed by the stadium are also affected.  These employees legally have the right to have an alternative to standing for the anthem.  Forcing these private employees to stand for the anthem is illegal. 

 

Standing for the anthem is not an integral requirement of performing any job.  It would only be integral if the job was to stand for the anthem. 

 

This wave of patriotism is really anti patriotic.  Military personnel take an oath to protect and defend the constitution.  Those dead servicemen and women died defending my right to not be forced to stand for the anthem. To force someone to stand dishonor their sacrifice and spits on their Graves. 

 

Your reasoning here is very powerful, Shawn. The NBA doesn't allow kneeling, so there probably is a provision they are using that allows that, or players aren't complaining about it.

[Stavro]

11 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Standing for the anthem is not an integral requirement of performing any job.  It would only be integral if the job was to stand for the anthem. 

Players did not stand for the anthem at all until the US military paid to have such displays. At that point, standing became part of their contract, and those who publicly refuse to stand are technically in violation.

 

While your point about abortions and blood transfusions is valid, a Witness employee cannot legally refuse those duties if they work at a blood bank or abortion clinic, nor could a Witness claim "neutrality" if they work for a military contractor or political campaign.

 

Since the NFL is now a military contractor, contractually obligated to have visible displays of patriotism, their employees would fall in the same category.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Stavro said:

 

 

While your point about abortions and blood transfusions is valid, a Witness employee cannot legally refuse those duties if they work at a blood bank or abortion clinic, nor could a Witness claim "neutrality" if they work for a military contractor or political campaign.

 

.

A Witness cannot remain a Witness and be employed by such agencies.  

 

A Witness, however, can work for a hospital where abortions or blood transfusions are performed. 

[Qapla]

While it may be true that the military does give the NFL money - it does not make the players "employees" of the US anymore than they are employees of Coke,  or the many other "official sponsors" that give them money.

 

It does appear that the military has paid to have patriotic displays of the flag, members of the military singing the anthem, flyovers and such - there does not seem to be any explicit demand that the payers stand for the anthem as part of their contract with the NFL any more than they are under contract to only drink Coke or eat from any particular restaurant chain.

[Miss Bea]

“All the king’s  horses, and all the king’s men could not put it back together again”!

[Stavro]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

It does appear that the military has paid to have patriotic displays of the flag, members of the military singing the anthem, flyovers and such - there does not seem to be any explicit demand that the payers stand for the anthem as part of their contract with the NFL any more than they are under contract to only drink Coke or eat from any particular restaurant chain.

If there's no contractual obligation, then the fines are illegal, and I'm sure the court will sort out the details.

 

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

A Witness cannot remain a Witness and be employed by such agencies.  

 

A Witness, however, can work for a hospital where abortions or blood transfusions are performed. 

If a Witness intentionally applies to a position in a hospital where the job description includes handling blood transfusions or performing abortions, they cannot demand a change of position once they're hired. They knew the requirements going into the position, so they're obligated to carry out the duties they agreed to perform in their signed contract.

 

That's what's happening here, the players apparently signed a contract stating that they would not visibly protest on the field, and they are intentionally using the field as a public platform for their protests.

 

In any case, this is absolutely nothing to do with first-amendment rights, it is purely a contract dispute with a private corporation.

[Awakened]

The National Anthem (the full lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner) is racist and pro-slavery - research it. If some players decide to kneel in protest (regardless of their reason), and folks have a problem with it, what does it say about  them??? If folks have a problem with a player kneeling (btw, who gets to the decide that “kneeling” is a form of disrespect in this context?) to draw attention to police brutality (primarily inflicted toward black males), what does that say about them???

[tekmantwo]

In the NFL, in the gameplay of American rules football, 'kneeling' or 'taking a knee' means that the person doing the kneeling is stopping the action or activity related to that particular play.  It means 'I give up' or that the person that is advancing the ball stops his advance,  that the play stops.

 

A quarterback does the same thing when he slides, he is saving himself from getting tackled because he is giving up when he slides...

 

Maybe the world has misinterpreted the whole kneeling thing?.. who knows?... maybe these poor guys are just protesting their awful working conditions? 

 

I mean,  working for one (1) hour a week,  and not even working the whole hour at that, whilst getting paid in the thousands of dollars per game, must be terrible for the little guys....maybe they just want some donuts with their Gatorade? 

I'm  fine with that,  it will create more jobs in the donut catering crew and help the U.S. economy.  That's gotta be good,  right?  Maybe some of those Maple covered ones will trickle down towards me. ..

[LeslieDean]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:07 PM, Tbs77 said:

"Trump’s desire to force patriotism with NFL kneeling ban echoes Nazi salute incident in 1933"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/comparisons-drawn-nfl-protest-ban-nazi-germany-article-1.4010138

President Trump's condemnation of National Football League players who kneel during the national anthem bears a striking resemblance to the Third Reich's punishment of a defiant soccer club.

"Stay Home, Nazis Tell Footballers" was the Jan. 6, 1934, Daily News headline on a story from Metz, France, after German soccer players declined to perform the infamous Hitler salute prior to a Christmas Day match.




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What a find!  I have family I would like to see this.  May I use your post on my FB? 

[Tbs77]

What a find!  I have family I would like to see this.  May I use your post on my FB? 

Can you post link without me attached? Those are the opening paragraphs of the article.

 

You can take credit!

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[LeslieDean]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:43 PM, Qapla said:

 

 

1 minute ago, Tbs77 said:

 

1 minute ago, Tbs77 said:

 

 Will certainly try! Lol. As you can see I struggle with quoting and deleting. 

But yes, I will get back to you .  Once I try I will not post it if I see you connected to it in any way. Thank you. 

Really enjoyed the parallel. 

[LeslieDean]

@Shawnster THIS!  Exactly! 

This wave of patriotism is really anti patriotic.  Military personnel take an oath to protect and defend the constitution.  Those dead servicemen and women died defending my right to not be forced to stand for the anthem. To force someone to stand dishonor their sacrifice and spits on their Graves. 

• Perfect!  I wish I could express myself in such concise and clear terms as you and many of my family here!  Such a dignified response! 

[LeslieDean]

On 5/27/2018 at 6:01 PM, Stavro said:

Players did not stand for the anthem at all until the US military paid to have such displays. At that point, standing became part of their contract, and those who publicly refuse to stand are technically in violation.

 

While your point about abortions and blood transfusions is valid, a Witness employee cannot legally refuse those duties if they work at a blood bank or abortion clinic, nor could a Witness claim "neutrality" if they work for a military contractor or political campaign.

 

Since the NFL is now a military contractor, contractually obligated to have visible displays of patriotism, their employees would fall in the same category.

 

Thank you for pointing this out.  I learn so much from you guys! 

[Pjdriver]

Just another example of clay not mixing with iron....creating a weakoning factor in this world power. It’s getting weaker and weaker....hopefully it will all come crashing down soon by the stone of the kingdom. 

[Beggar for the Spirit]

On 5/27/2018 at 5:01 PM, Stavro said:

Players did not stand for the anthem at all until the US military paid to have such displays. At that point, standing became part of their contract, and those who publicly refuse to stand are technically in violation.

Hi Stavro,

Thanks for mentioning this. I have watched the NFL for many decades but I had never heard of this. Do you know what year this started, the military paying the NFL? How much is the NFL paid? 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Tbs77]

Hi Stavro,
Thanks for mentioning this. I have watched the NFL for many decades but I had never heard of this. Do you know what year this started, the military paying the NFL? How much is the NFL paid? 

You can do an internet search for info... I like this one..

The NFL Gets Paid For Patriotism, Fines Player For Wearing Patriotic Cleats

LINDSAY GIBBSNOV 13, 2015, 4:25 PM

https://thinkprogress.org/the-nfl-gets-paid-for-patriotism-fines-player-for-wearing-patriotic-cleats-8178ab3dd664/





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[Beggar for the Spirit]

Wow 

 

Quote

"...a report released by U.S. Senators Jeff Flake and John McCain (R-AZ) revealed that the U.S. Department of Defense had paid the NFL $6.1 million from 2012 through 2015 for patriotic moments at games"

 

[tekmantwo]

3 hours ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

"...a report released by U.S. Senators Jeff Flake and John McCain (R-AZ) revealed that the U.S. Department of Defense had paid the NFL $6.1 million from 2012 through 2015 for patriotic moments at games"

A couple of mill a year for aircraft flyovers and parachute displays is not too bad,  concidering all the logistics...and all the places. ..

[Shawnster]

And not just the NFL.  Flyovers are standard at auto races, along with patriotic songs and even military induction ceremonies.  At NHL hockey games they have featured military guests and everyone stands to salute them and honor their service. 

 

All sporting events in the United States open with the national anthem 

[LeslieDean]

I was fairly new in the truth when I attended my first Rose Bowl game in Pasadena Ca.  I had never been to a major football game even though it was a college game.  Don’t remember who played. I knew what to expect and how I would act.  What did throw me for a loop though was the UNEXPECTED sense of pride I felt when the Black Stelth flew over.  You did not hear it then all of a sudden it appeared seemingly out of no where!  It seemed like you could reach up and touch it.  What really scared me though was my emotional response. I have never had a sense of patriotism until that moment.  Don’t know where it came from.  But I clearly remember the intense feeling. I would have understood if I had struggled with patriotic things before but I had not.  Has anyone else been caught off guard like that? I felt more perplexed than anything after that.