We have another invitation

[Nirex]

What about bible students?

[Thesauron]

3 hours ago, jayrtom said:

If someone appears without a ticket he can't enter. I can say that even friends that changed their mind about going won't have that chance anymore. The same for friends that were admitted again in the time frame between the window closing and the date of the convention

everyone will receive a ticket with the specific place on the stadium and only those will be able to attend - no exceptions

It will be interesting to see how that plays out, and if the talks will be different, since some of the talks, including the Public Bible Discourse, are designed specifically with visitors and newcomers in mind.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Thesauron

[Dane Rí Rua]

That's amazing,.

I'm not elder but I did go with an elder to a disfellowshipped persons house to invite them to the memorial,theres that sense of urgency to invite Df'd individuals and inactive ones but it will be interesting if this starts being done in other countries.

[Hope]

5 hours ago, jayrtom said:

 

it's the group overseer that distributes the cards to the RC's, according to the ones on the group. no card is to be given to any disfellowshipped person

 

Perhaps it is different in this case, since the admission is so restricted.  But lapel cards have always been available at our literature counter in our congregations, not our group overseers.  They ask how many you want, you say, they give.  No questions regarding who the cards will be given to.

 

Wow.  I *do* understand limitations of seating.  But the parameters around this particular convention - tickets only, no public (evidently), no lost sheep - in the entire country!  It sounds sorta heartbreaking to me.  I trust, however, that the brothers are doing what is best for the situation.  It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.    

[Old]

 

 

1 hour ago, Hope said:

 

Perhaps it is different in this case, since the admission is so restricted.  But lapel cards have always been available at our literature counter in our congregations, not our group overseers.  They ask how many you want, you say, they give.  No questions regarding who the cards will be given to.

 

 

Nor do they ask who they are for. My thought is, common sense would mean we do not provde badges for th DFd. 

Would providing a lapel badge to one who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses not be a form of spiritual communication? A lapel badge identifies one as being a delegate to a Christian Convention. It identifies the congregationthey represent , not the area, . We are delegates, representing Jehovah's Witnesses DFd ones, no matter how loved are not delegates . The badges are for the purpose of a witness as well as identifying our brothers and sisters, the DFd are not our brothers and sisters

 

*** km 5/99 p. 5 par. 18 1999 “God’s Prophetic Word” District Conventions ***

Wearing our lapel badges before and after the day’s sessions further identifies us with Jehovah and his clean people.

*** km 4/11 pp. 6-7 par. 9 Three Days of Spiritual Refreshment ***
We are convention delegates ... If we wear our lapel badges, onlookers will be able to identify us as Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

 

I must say that it surprises me a little that this would ever come into question. Who would ask for a lapel badge for the disfellowshipped?

[Old]

2 hours ago, Dane Rí Rua said:

That's amazing,.

I'm not elder but I did go with an elder to a disfellowshipped persons house to invite them to the memorial,theres that sense of urgency to invite Df'd individuals and inactive ones but it will be interesting if this starts being done in other countries.

That sense of urgency is in the eye of the beholder and not a campaign sponored by the FS.

At this time there is no organiztional direction provided for two elders to contact local DFd ones on an annual basis; that activity is in the past.

Individual elders are free to do so when they think there might be good cause to provide a reminder on the procedure  for reinstatement. If an elder sees evidence of a DFd changing their ways, an elder could make a brief contact with the DFd and provide that individual with a copy of Return to Jehovah. 

Elders are free to visit or contact by telephone as they see fit, keeping the coordinator informed. If the elder in your congregation feels that an invitation to Memorial is the appropriate action for the moment that is well within his authority. Taking someone along who is not an elder is fudging on that same written authority.

[Hope]

26 minutes ago, Old said:

 

 

Nor do they ask who they are for. My thought is, common sense would mean we do not provide badges for the DFd. 

Would providing a lapel badge to one who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses not be a form of spiritual communication? A lapel badge identifies one as being a delegate to a Christian Convention. It identifies the congregation they represent , not the area, . We are delegates, representing Jehovah's Witnesses DFd ones, no matter how loved are not delegates . The badges are for the purpose of a witness as well as identifying our brothers and sisters, the DFd are not our brothers and sisters

 

*** km 5/99 p. 5 par. 18 1999 “God’s Prophetic Word” District Conventions ***

Wearing our lapel badges before and after the day’s sessions further identifies us with Jehovah and his clean people.

*** km 4/11 pp. 6-7 par. 9 Three Days of Spiritual Refreshment ***
We are convention delegates ... If we wear our lapel badges, onlookers will be able to identify us as Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

 

I must say that it surprises me a little that this would ever come into question. Who would ask for a lapel badge for the disfellowshipped?

 

As far as I know, it's never been a topic of discussion, counsel or warning from the platform or in our literature.  I've never worn one whilst df'd but I could have.  I definitely would NOT have if there was counsel not to.  Since df'd people are allowed to ask for literature from the Hall, if one asked for a lapel card and the servant wasn't informed one way or the other, what would prevent him from giving one?  Also there are ways to get various things from online sites.  I used to go to nefarious places to get a Kingdom Ministry back before our website provided them -- people will do what they think is right if there is no other direction.

 

"Common sense" is not really so common, I don't think.  No questions ever surprise me, really.  I'm more surprised when we can't easily get the information.  I didn't know brothers didn't visit the df'd  anymore 'til I read it on this board.  I always wondered why my family never received such visits but if it's been "not a thing" for many years, that would explain it.  It's better to know that than to believe that no one cares anymore   

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hope

[Tortuga]

16 minutes ago, Hope said:

I didn't know brothers didn't visit the df'd  anymore 'til I read it on this board. 

Interestingly, this is the last article that I found that mentions a yearly visit.

 

*** w96 11/1 p. 16 par. 12 Sharing the Comfort That Jehovah Provides ***
Once a year two elders may visit certain disfellowshipped ones. These may no longer show a rebellious attitude or be engaged in gross sin and may need help to take the necessary steps to get reinstated.—Matthew 24:45; Ezekiel 34:16.
 

Starting in 1998 it changed to this...

*** w98 8/1 p. 16 par. 16 Imitate Jehovah—Exercise Justice and Righteousness ***
Thus, elders take the initiative to visit certain disfellowshipped ones to remind them how they can return to Jehovah’s organization.

 

Oops, I just realized that I contributed to an off topic conversation. Bad turtle!
 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Tortuga

[Old]

Maybe off topic, but that is what happens in convesations.

16 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

 

Oops, I just realized that I contributed to an off topic conversation. Bad turtle!
 

The annual visitation program was done away with in 2017, not "years ago". Keep in mind that the majority of those contacted were extremely resentful, or were still involved in the practice that got them DFd. It was a dificult assignment for the elders. The only purpose was to make sure the individual knew there was a way back. They are so instructed at the time of their DFg but are often traumatized and forget. We were not instructed to invite them to the Memorial per se, however if they showed a contrite heart they would be so invited. None that I called on through the years was willing to give up their bad lifestyle, commonly smoking or living with a partner in an unmarried state.

 

So back to topic: It is very unlikely that any provision will be made at the Internatioal convention in Portugal for the DFd. None is made when it is open seating as have been our RCs in the past.

[Tortuga]

3 minutes ago, Old said:

The annual visitation program was done away with in 2017, not "years ago".

Thanks. I did find this in 2017 but it didn't specify a yearly visit.

*** w17 March p. 20 par. 11 Serve Jehovah With a Complete Heart! ***
In addition, the congregation elders arrange to visit and offer help to disfellowshipped ones in the congregation territory who may have left their past practice of sin.
 

[Old]

2 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Thanks. I did find this in 2017 but it didn't specify a yearly visit.

*** w17 March p. 20 par. 11 Serve Jehovah With a Complete Heart! ***
 

That date is one month after elders were informed that the annual visiting was a thing of the past. This was a way of letting the congregations know as the WT went to press far in advance of direct instructions for the BOE.

[Jeanie]

8 hours ago, Old said:

 

 

Nor do they ask who they are for. My thought is, common sense would mean we do not provde badges for th DFd. 

Would providing a lapel badge to one who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses not be a form of spiritual communication? A lapel badge identifies one as being a delegate to a Christian Convention. It identifies the congregationthey represent , not the area, . We are delegates, representing Jehovah's Witnesses DFd ones, no matter how loved are not delegates . The badges are for the purpose of a witness as well as identifying our brothers and sisters, the DFd are not our brothers and sisters

 

*** km 5/99 p. 5 par. 18 1999 “God’s Prophetic Word” District Conventions ***

Wearing our lapel badges before and after the day’s sessions further identifies us with Jehovah and his clean people.

*** km 4/11 pp. 6-7 par. 9 Three Days of Spiritual Refreshment ***
We are convention delegates ... If we wear our lapel badges, onlookers will be able to identify us as Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

 

I must say that it surprises me a little that this would ever come into question. Who would ask for a lapel badge for the disfellowshipped?

Jerry I have to be honest with you, I had never thought about it before.  I had just assumed that they received a lapel card too.  I like the articles that you quoted because it does make sense.

 

I think the yearly visits being changed makes sense too.  But, again, I had never thought about those who are angry, hostile, etc.  If you are disfellowshipped are you given a list of things you can't do anymore?  I ask because I wonder how many have tried to get lapel cards, etc. over the years.  Or, maybe I am the only one that literally hadn't thought about it and would have done it out of habit.    I could only imagine how embarrassing making a mistake like that would be or being asked to take off your lapel card.  

 

 

[jayrtom]

17 hours ago, Nirex said:

What about bible students?

Bible students that regularly go to the meetings were invited to

 

15 hours ago, Dane Rí Rua said:

That's amazing,.

I'm not elder but I did go with an elder to a disfellowshipped persons house to invite them to the memorial,theres that sense of urgency to invite Df'd individuals and inactive ones but it will be interesting if this starts being done in other countries.

There is a general sense of urgency regarding the inactive ones, not the DFd. Did you notice  the morning worship that mentioned specifically visiting the inactive ones but no mention was made regarding the DFd? Jerry explained it perfectly that an individual Elder may decide to visit a certain DF (certai ones that no longer are involved in Sin and show an attitude that means they are willing to vome back - For example if a DFd appears on the memorial by its on. If comes to the meeting, etc...). They wont go visit the DFd ones in the territory as a general rule

On the list of brothers for a certain service group, the Inactive ones are listed but not any Dfd - In reality they don't belong to the congregation any more

12 hours ago, Old said:

 

 

Nor do they ask who they are for. My thought is, common sense would mean we do not provde badges for th DFd. 

Would providing a lapel badge to one who is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses not be a form of spiritual communication? A lapel badge identifies one as being a delegate to a Christian Convention. It identifies the congregationthey represent , not the area, . We are delegates, representing Jehovah's Witnesses DFd ones, no matter how loved are not delegates . The badges are for the purpose of a witness as well as identifying our brothers and sisters, the DFd are not our brothers and sisters

 

 

Because of some arranging the badges for Dfd - not showing loyalty to Jehovah, because that would mean communicating with him/her about spiritual things (with the exception of a minor leaving with the parents) I saw in the past some strange things like man completely bad dressed, bad combed, bad shaved and bad smelled going around in the RC with a badge...

 

[Thesauron]

 
Because of some arranging the badges for Dfd - not showing loyalty to Jehovah, because that would mean communicating with him/her about spiritual things (with the exception of a minor leaving with the parents) I saw in the past some strange things like man completely bad dressed, bad combed, bad shaved and bad smelled going around in the RC with a badge...
 

This could happen due to illness, such as depression or other mental illnesses. The elders usually show such ones loving kindness and concern.

[jayrtom]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:58 PM, Thesauron said:

This could happen due to illness, such as depression or other mental illnesses. The elders usually show such ones loving kindness and concern.

That's correct but in those cases there is someone who takes care of this person and helps him being in good shape. In the examples I referred there were no indications of mental illness or the kind...

[Thesauron]

That's correct but in those cases there is someone who takes care of this person and helps him being in good shape. In the examples I referred there were no indications of mental illness or the kind...

What I mean is, being in bad shape is not a sign that you are disfellowshipped. There could be a number of explanations.

[jayrtom]

47 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

What I mean is, being in bad shape is not a sign that you are disfellowshipped. There could be a number of explanations.

The point is this (nothing new):

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202000128?q=convention+badge&p=par

▪ Who should receive a district convention lapel badge card?

Convention lapel badge cards can be very helpful in identifying our brothers and in advertising the convention. However, they should not be distributed indiscriminately. They identify the wearer as being in good standing with a particular congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The card has space for the name of the individual as well as the name of the congregation. Therefore, the person would have to be associated to a reasonable extent with the named congregation. The Society sends a supply of cards to each congregation. It would be appropriate to give a card to each baptized and unbaptized publisher. Also, children and others who regularly attend congregation meetings and who are making progress toward sharing in the field ministry may receive one. It would not be proper to give a convention lapel badge card to a disfellowshipped person.

When the cards are made available, the elders should see that they are distributed in harmony with these guidelines.

[Dane]

Problems arise when individuals who are not invited to attend the international convention due to the LIMITED amount of space at each convention location such as overcrowding in the venue. The host branch knows the expected number of international delegates and local brothers who will fill in the venue. We must follow the given instructions by the branch / elders to avoid problems. We are an organized organization and we want to give praise to Jehovah's name. We do not want to give bad impressions to those who are observing us in the host city.

[pnutts]

Got an email today from one of our elders about those wishing to take a coach ( fancy bus ) to T.O. for our international.

If so, how many, etc.

 

Originally they were looking into VIA rail too.  Bus is simpler.

[Hanah45]

I attended Long Beach this past weekend.  It was not an International. Lapel badges were required to enter. If you did not have a lapel badge, you were directed to an area where you were given a “temporary badge”.  It was one of those sticker type name “badge”.  

I am assigned to the International Convention in Phoenix in August.  I am curious if we are going to be participating in a invitation campaign, and will there be a security check with metal detectors.