Aladdin, the movie - 2019

[Pavlos]

13 minutes ago, Qapla said:

I have not seen this movie so I have no idea who these "two protagonists in two different films" is referring to ... I also do not know what "crystal sphere" is being referred to ... like I said, I have not seen the movie - so I have no idea ... how is it that you know what is in a movie you feel no one should see?

 

I just referred in two general examples. Not in specific movies.Two scenes that could be seen in any movie. 

[Pavlos]

20 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

And yet, it is.   We do not have a list of movies to avoid and movies approved to see.  

Sorry, totally disagree. It's a scene film showing and promoting in a "nice" way spiritualism whatever you say. In this case, yes, I can't say it's a matter of conscience. Of course each of us we have the free will to choose our kind of entertainment. I personally, won't judge anyone. But saying that this is a matter of conscience.. No, I won't say this.

Edited May 29, 2019 by ouzo

[Qapla]

 

 

If you do not know that those scenes are in this movie why use them as an example as to why to avoid this movie?

 

That would be like me saying someone should avoid a movie about space travel because some movies have sex scenes - even though I do not know if the particular space movie has any romance in it at all.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Qapla

[Pavlos]

17 minutes ago, Qapla said:

An example:

 

I know a brother who thinks no JW should watch Star Wars ... not because of "magic" (The Force) -  but, because of violence. He says it is one of the most violent movies ever made and that no self-respecting JW would ever watch it ....

 

Yet, two of his favorite movies are "The Outlaw Josey Wales" and "The Dirty Dozen"

 

 

Just sayin'   

I can help you: You can ask this brother if he watched the "walking by faith" movie that produced from our organization. If he's saying "yes" then you can ask him: "Why? It contains a lot of violence". But in the back of the DVD cover it says that this film does not promote the violence.

However it's not the same with a film showing spiritualism like "Aladdin". In "Aladdin" it passes the meaning that spiritualism is something funny. 

[EccentricM]

20 minutes ago, ouzo said:

a film showing spiritualism like "Aladdin"

This is where the difference of opinion comes in. Some may not even view it as spiritism, but pure fantasy with made up fantasy characters who have powers. Since not all sources of supernatural power "have" to be demonic or spiritistic. But, to many, Genie is just some blue mythical creature who can grant people wishes who they do not connect to demonic activity in anyway.  

 

This is why we say "conscience", since people "framework" things differently from others. I could make a story right now of a boy waking up one day and being able to move things with his mind and he doesn't know why. But it's just some power he has. I as the writer am not linking it to demons in his house or him being possessed, but it's just something "fantastical", and nothing more, a flight of the imagination.

 

But would some Christians have a problem with it? I imagine so, because they would feel it "portrays things" akin to demonism in the real world. In fact we already have an example of such, a movie called Matilda, which I know some in the Truth have been conflicted on with each other.

Edited May 29, 2019 by EccentricM

[CynthiaG]

5 hours ago, carlos said:

same who complain that others in the congregation don't invite them to social activities. It's normal, I don't feel like spending time with them either because I feel like everything I do or say or watch will be judged and criticized.

This is just sad.....I have friends who don't allow their kids to watch some Marvel movies, others who think we shouldn't be doing karaoke to certain songs, some who think we should only be doing karaoke to our JW songs not wordly music and even some with very strict diets. I would never feel like I just shouldn't invite them because I may be judged.

 

In fact it's rather simple. If I invite them I will pick somethimg other than marvel to watch or not play the songs they dont care for or not cook meat for dinner. The Christian thing to do is demonstrate brotherly love and just for a single evening I'm willing to sacrifice a specific form of entertainment in a heartbeat. We've even shut off a comedy movie before because someone didn't like it. It doesn't bother me at all it's part of showing love as a Christian. 

 

If I did everything right and they still complain then I would simply ask for their own specific ideas for next time. Everyone wins 👌

Edited May 29, 2019 by CynthiaG

[Hope]

I think this is why we should worry most about what *we* watch and do... not so much what *others* watch and do.  Jehovah will sort each of us out in the end.  I believe that is the better way...  

Edited May 29, 2019 by Hope

[Pavlos]

14 minutes ago, Qapla said:

 

 

If you do not know that those scenes are in this movie why use them as an example as to why to avoid this movie?

 

John, maybe my bad english doesn't help. I gave a general example. If there was a movie about a person who used to rub a "magical" crystal sphere and talking with spirits, would you watched it? That's my question.

[Hope]

1 minute ago, Hope said:

I think this is why we should worry most about what *we* watch and do... not so much what *others* watch and do.  Jehovah will sort each of us out in the end.  I believe that is the better way...  

 

Also -- this is generally why I don't discuss my entertainment choices and I generally see most films by myself.  I don't need the aggravation... 😕 

[Pavlos]

4 minutes ago, Hope said:

 

Also -- this is generally why I don't discuss my entertainment choices and I generally see most films by myself.  I don't need the aggravation... 😕 

I said before that I don't want to judge any of you. I don't have this right. But I can't say that these kind of movies are just matter of conscience. Friends, we don't help others promoting these thoughts. 

[Qapla]

31 minutes ago, ouzo said:

I said before that I don't want to judge any of you

 

This is a good thing ...

 

32 minutes ago, ouzo said:

But I can't say that these kind of movies are just matter of conscience.

 

However, this IS judging ... especially since the FDS says our choice of entertainment IS a matter of conscience.

[Qapla]

51 minutes ago, CynthiaG said:

I would never feel like I just shouldn't invite them because I may be judged

 

If I did everything right and they still complain then I would simply ask for their own specific ideas for next time. Everyone wins

 

I'm not sure this is always the solution ...

 

It is not always what you are "doing" at a social occasion that is the problem ... it is sometimes what is "said". There are some people, an, yes, I know some like this, that will ALWAYS bring up what they want to criticize about. It may not have anything to do with what you are doing or talking about - but, they just HAVE to talk about what they think you and/or others should change or do differently.

 

These types of people are not fun to be around - no matter what you say or do - they are never happy and will find a way to suck the air out of any enjoyable conversation or event.

 

I have even had some like this come away from the CA or Convention only talking about how bad the parking was or how wrong the attendants were or how bad the sound was or some other reason to complain instead of talking about how great the program was. And, if you try to keep the discussion on the program - they will try to steer the conversation  into complaining about the Brothers who gave the talks.

 

I agree, I would not be quick to invite ones like that to my house for an evening of "up building"

[Pjdriver]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:37 AM, EccentricM said:

That I can't wrap my mind around.

 

I've even spoken to peole in the world about it who say they liked the characters and story, but the makers of the series went too far with the show, and put lots of graphic sex scenes in there that were not in the books (I've never read them myself). GOT, almost literally is just a porno with a fantasy/poltical plot and some fight scenes, (and no, this is not an exaggeration). It involves every kind of sexual thing you can imagine,  not just what you mentioned, but even including regular graphic peadophila and incest scenes, which people are "forced to watch" because important parts of the story and plot are revealed in such scenes.

 

I'd not watch it ever, and I'm very surprised that some Witnesses do, but also due to the days we live in.. not surprised. I myself am a history and fantasy fan, but GOT is too much, there are even non-JW Christian blogs talking about how Christians should not watch it, due to how brazen and unnecessary the constant graphic sex, full frontal nuditiy and violence is in the show, and is clear that it's just put in there to excite and attract viewers, when it "could" have been done in a clean way and the story still be told.

So, to be clear, .....are you going to watch it? 

[New World Explorer]

4 hours ago, Thesauron said:

I’ve even seen some young pioneers come to Bethel, pretty much expecting perfection, and when they didn’t find it even there, they become disillusioned and eventually leave. Some even leave the truth behind entirely.

Did they apply for Bethel service on this planet? where rebellion took place in Eden, where for around 6000 years planet is FULL of imperfect people?

Thus, why are they surprised? (In-maturity? )

 

Unless I am missing something, and you are talking of Bethel on another planet ...LOL

[Tortuga]

5 hours ago, Thesauron said:

I’ve even seen some young pioneers come to Bethel, pretty much expecting perfection, and when they didn’t find it even there, they become disillusioned and eventually leave. Some even leave the truth behind entirely.

I've heard the same. Some parents had encouraged their children to go to Bethel before they were spiritually mature, hoping that the environment would mold them. Unfortunately it didn't always work. 

 

Oops-this sidebar is off topic. Sorry... Lets all promise to stay on topic...

Edited May 29, 2019 by Tortuga

[Pjdriver]

Also, I think there can be a difference between having a sensitive conscience, and being a mature and balanced Christian.  

A mature Christian can have a sensitive conscience....but at the same time, does not feel the need to tell others in so many words that;  “my conscience is more sensitive than yours.”   (therefore, I’m more spiritual than you).  

Over the years I’ve seen some will strain the gnat and swallow the camel. For example I knew a couple who were very strict about not watching certain shows. That’s fine, no problem. Except they made sure everyone knew how sensitive they were.....

The same family fought like cats and dogs. Completely disregarding the command to show love and respect for one another.  She might call her husband a “stupid idiot”, but she was very careful and determined not to watch a “bad” movie. What’s wrong with this picture? 

 

I think discussing the appropriateness of a particular movie in a group of people with varying backgrounds, is a recipe for contention. We will always have differing opinions. Especially when the FS says it’s a conscience matter. It’s hard for some to imagine that there might be another view, that is as legitimate as theirs. 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Pjdriver

[Pavlos]

5 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

However, this IS judging ... especially since the FDS says our choice of entertainment IS a matter of conscience.

John, did you remember the video with Sofia and Chaleb when Chaleb was playing with a toy that named "Sparlock"? Do you think that the meaning behind of that video was that the FDS says that this kind of entertainment is a matter of conscience?

 

Guys, I'm talking to all of you that you say me directly or not that is not good to apply my conscience to others. I do not! You have the right to do anything you want. But if you saw someone to support or saying something that is wrong, would you let it pass by thinking that it's his problem and conscience? I apologize all those who I offended but I can't close my eyes.I believe that you would did the same to your friends. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by ouzo

[SUNRAY]

9 minutes ago, ouzo said:

John, did you remember the video with Sofia and Chaleb when Chaleb was playing with a toy that named "Sparlock"? Do you think that the meaning behind of that video was that the FDS says that this kind of entertainment is a matter of conscience? 

I was watching that video recently, and the mom told Caleb that Jehovah hates magic. I like the part when a serpent drops down curled around the toy with "magic powers"...kind of reminds me of rhe lamp and ring in Alladin.

[CynthiaG]

37 minutes ago, ouzo said:

John, did you remember the video with Sofia and Chaleb when Chaleb was playing with a toy that named "Sparlock"? Do you think that the meaning behind of that video was that the FDS says that this kind of entertainment is a matter of conscience?

Great reminder! 

[Guri]

9 minutes ago, SUNRAY said:

I was watching that video recently, and the mom told Caleb that Jehovah hates magic. I like the part when a serpent drops down curled around the toy with "magic powers"...kind of reminds me of rhe lamp and ring in Alladin.

 

The movie itself is described this way in Cinemas: 

 

 Aladdin is a street urchin, living in Agrabah with his pet monkey, Abu. His life changes, though, when he is tasked with retrieving a magical lamp from the Cave of Wonder..

 

When the nefarious Jafar (Marwan Kenzari), advisor to the Sultan (Navid Negahban), attempts to steal a magic lamp from the depths of the Cave of Wonder, he finds he cannot – only a diamond in the rough may enter the mystical cavern.

 

Jafar realises he must enlist a low-life to do his dirty work for him, so through trickery and disguise, he reaches out to street urchin, Aladdin (Mena Massoud), and orders him to help. 

Once the lamp has been retrieved, Jafar reveals his true cunning intentions and shoves Aladdin back into the cave to be trapped – but not before Abu can swipe the treasure back. 

 

Stuck in the cave with no exit in sight, and just a lamp to show for his troubles, Aladdin must use wit, clever thinking… And the help of a bottled genie to escape.

With his new-found friend in Genie (Will Smith), Aladdin is entitled to three wishes. 

He begins by wishing to be a noble prince, so as to woo the beautiful Princess Jasmine (Naomi Scott), daughter of the Sultan. When Jafar realises that Prince Ali is in fact the lowly Aladdin, he thieves back the lamp, and the power of the genie who is bound to it…

 

Aladdin must defeat Jafar to save Agrabah and set Genie free from his shackled existence – but the challenge in front of him is anything but simple.
Guy Ritchie brings us the enchanting remake of the 1992 classic, Aladdin, starring Naomi Scott (Power Rangers), Will Smith (Bright), and Mena Massoud (Ordinary Days).

P.S. 

Forgot the webpage of the movie description: https://www.myvue.com/film/aladdin/synopsis

[Guri]

6 hours ago, Pjdriver said:

Also, I think there can be a difference between having a sensitive conscience, and being a mature and balanced Christian.  

A mature Christian can have a sensitive conscience....but at the same time, does not feel the need to tell others in so many words that;  “my conscience is more sensitive than yours.”   (therefore, I’m more spiritual than you).  

Over the years I’ve seen some will strain the gnat and swallow the camel. For example I knew a couple who were very strict about not watching certain shows. That’s fine, no problem. Except they made sure everyone knew how sensitive they were.....

The same family fought like cats and dogs. Completely disregarding the command to show love and respect for one another.  She might call her husband a “stupid idiot”, but she was very careful and determined not to watch a “bad” movie. What’s wrong with this picture? 

 

I think discussing the appropriateness of a particular movie in a group of people with varying backgrounds, is a recipe for contention. We will always have differing opinions. Especially when the FS says it’s a conscience matter. It’s hard for some to imagine that there might be another view, that is as legitimate as theirs. 

 

 

 

Br. Burt, 

 

I like your comment.  

 

Many comments has been made about the conscience and we saw (+we know) that not everyone's conscience works in a same way. It is obvious that we as individuals are accountable before Jehovah for what we do, what we say and what we encourage others with.

 

I have not seen the "Aladin" movie and I don't know every details of it. It may not in itself be wrong for a Christian to watch, yet it could cause disturb and confusion to someone with a weak conscience. (Compare 1 Cor. 8:4-13). 

 

One's conscience may allows him to watch "Aladin" movie or some other movies that may include magical, uncanny power or spiritistic practices whilst it can disturb/upset someone. I think we have good reason to be cautious and be careful when (and if) we encourage (or even inviting) someone to watch a movie that may seem (or is) innocent or harmless in our eyes, especially if we invite a child (someone's child) to watch such movies. Child may start asking lots of questions and become confused. 

[carlos]

7 hours ago, ouzo said:

Guys, I'm talking to all of you that you say me directly or not that is not good to apply my conscience to others. I do not! You have the right to do anything you want. But if you saw someone to support or saying something that is wrong, would you let it pass by thinking that it's his problem and conscience? I apologize all those who I offended but I can't close my eyes.I believe that you would did the same to your friends. 

Pavlos, it's very ok that you have decided not to watch this movie. You have all the right to choose what is proper or not to watch for you and your family. It's ok if you think that Christians should not watch that movie. Your decision shows that you wish to please Jehovah. But in the moment you tell others they should not watch this movie you are imposing your conscience on them, even if you don't realize.

 

I haven't watched the movie yet. But I know the story and I don't think it's demonic nor spiritistic. It's fantasy. The genie doesn't resemble any of the demons in the Bible and doesn't behave like any demon in the Bible. He's just a mythological being such as fairies and elves and unicorns. Yes, I imagine you don't watch fairies nor unicorns, but I don't have a problem with them, as many other Christians don't. They aren't spirits nor demons, just imaginary creatures. I do not encourage anyone to watch any movie because that's a very private decision. But I expect the same respect shown to me. If you say you prefer not to watch that movie, you have all my respect. But if you say my conscience is wrong and this movie is not for Christians because you have decided it, then you are not showing respect. It's much better when we all follow our own conscience and let others follow theirs.

[Pjdriver]

34 minutes ago, carlos said:

But if you say my conscience is wrong and this movie is not for Christians because you have decided it, then you are not showing respect. It's much better when we all follow our own conscience and let others follow theirs.

I think this is the crux of the matter. How we interpret a movie. The FS has acknowledged that there may be differences of opinions on how the entertainment is perceived. This part seems to be very difficult for some to accept. Some may say: ‘I don’t judge, and it’s up to the individual to choose for themself’.....then they say it’s not appropriate for Christians. 

 

8 hours ago, ouzo said:

Do you think that the meaning behind of that video was that the FDS says that this kind of entertainment is a matter of conscience?

Keep in mind

 

1, this is a parent telling their young child that a magic wizard toy is bad. We all know magic is bad. Also note,  It’s Not members of the congregation telling other adult members what’s appropriate and not appropriate for Christians to watch in a movie.

 

2, you keep forgetting ...there’s magic and then there’s fantasy. We’ve already discussed the difference. And as it has been pointed out by some friends here, the word “magic” and how it’s used and viewed has evolved over time. This is what some don’t recognize. So, as the FS acknowledged, it’s the individual adults that must sort that out for themselves. 

 

You could use the same reasoning with taking blood. Some will view as “obvious”, taking any form or part of the blood as inappropriate, period. It’s black or white, nothing in between.

While Others may feel that blood fractions are not really the same as real whole blood.

Which one is right or wrong? 

One may say “I’m can’t tell you what to do” but then they proceed to speak out as though there’s no middle ground.

If it was as black and white in the matter of “magical fantasy” as you imagine, then the FS would have stated a simple rule....if the word “magic” is used...DO NOT WATCH! But it’s not as black and white as you have convinced yourself to believe. 

 

So the balanced and mature approach is that “this movie with “magic” is not right for me, in my view”.

But should we feel the need to tell others that it’s inappropriate for all?

 

One side points out an article or video indicating that “magic” is bad. The other side points out an article that explains that some can view certain “magic” as fantasy, and should use their conscience to guide them. Which article should we believe?  

 

[New World Explorer]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

But I expect the same respect shown to me. If you say you prefer not to watch that movie, you have all my respect. But if you say my conscience is wrong and this movie is not for Christians because you have decided it, then you are not showing respect. It's much better when we all follow our own conscience and let others follow theirs.

I fully agree with your statement Carlos, reflects spiritual maturity

In our publications FDS presents similar approach .... they "let us reach our OWN conclusions (based on our conscience)  and act upon it"

 

But also we are encouraged to train our conscience so that we can make good choices based on Jehovah’s principles. (Hebrews 5:14)

 

On certain matters, two different Christians with Bible-trained consciences might come to opposite conclusions. Consider the use of alcoholic beverages. The Bible does not condemn the moderate use of alcohol. It does, however, warn against the excessive use of alcohol, as well as drunkenness. (Prov. 20:1; 1 Tim. 3:8) Does this mean that a Christian has no other factors to consider as long as his use of alcohol is moderate? Not at all. While he may be at peace with his own conscience, the Christian must also consider the conscience of others.
12 Regarding the need for a Christian to be sensitive to the conscience of others, Paul wrote: “It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.” (Rom. 14:21) Would you be willing to forgo things that are within your right if you could thus avoid stumbling a brother whose conscience differs from yours? No doubt you would. Before they came to a knowledge of the truth, some of our brothers abused alcohol, but now they are determined to abstain from it. Surely, none of us would want to contribute to a brother’s falling back into a course that would cause him great harm! (1 Cor. 6:9, 10) Therefore, it would be unloving for a host to pressure a brother to drink alcohol if he has declined to do so.

W18 June

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by New World Explorer

[Pavlos]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

Pavlos, it's very ok that you have decided not to watch this movie. You have all the right to choose what is proper or not to watch for you and your family. It's ok if you think that Christians should not watch that movie. Your decision shows that you wish to please Jehovah. But in the moment you tell others they should not watch this movie you are imposing your conscience on them, even if you don't realize.

 

I haven't watched the movie yet. But I know the story and I don't think it's demonic nor spiritistic. It's fantasy. The genie doesn't resemble any of the demons in the Bible and doesn't behave like any demon in the Bible. He's just a mythological being such as fairies and elves and unicorns. Yes, I imagine you don't watch fairies nor unicorns, but I don't have a problem with them, as many other Christians don't. They aren't spirits nor demons, just imaginary creatures. I do not encourage anyone to watch any movie because that's a very private decision. But I expect the same respect shown to me. If you say you prefer not to watch that movie, you have all my respect. But if you say my conscience is wrong and this movie is not for Christians because you have decided it, then you are not showing respect. It's much better when we all follow our own conscience and let others follow theirs.

Guys, even I have never seen you face to face, I love you all very much. You are my family and if we disagree in 1 issue, I know that we agree in all the others.

Again I insist on that it's not a matter of conscience. The FDS has written already clearly a lot about it. It's up to each of us if we want to follow or not.

On my part I don't have to add anything else. It's like I am in a cinema with other brothers and some of them they are choosing to see an inappropriate movie. If my friends still insist on watching this film, I have to depart. I will feel uncomfortable, they will feel uncomfortable too. But this is what we have to do.

Anyway, thanks again you tolerated me.