Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[trottigy]

10 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

True, he loss his favor to Jehovah and not one of his descendants survived the flood.

 

Do we know this? What was the lineage of the wives of Noah and his three sons?

 

EDIT: there is just so much we don't know. I am lookiing forward to seeing history reconstructed during the resurection process. Only a little while longer!

Edited November 7 by trottigy

[Jwanon]

10 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

True, he loss his favor to Jehovah and not one of his descendants survived the flood.

 

How do you know that?

[Tortuga]

10 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

How do you know that?

*** it-1 p. 387 Cain ***
Cain’s line ended with the global Flood of Noah’s day.
 

His line ended because no male from his family survived the flood, we don't know if any of the females on the ark were his descendants.

 

EDIT: I see Jerry just said that..

Edited November 7 by Tortuga

[Jwanon]

Just now, Tortuga said:

*** it-1 p. 387 Cain ***
Cain’s line ended with the global Flood of Noah’s day.
 

His line ended because no male from his family survived the flood, we don't know if any of the females on the ark were his descendants.

 

If his females descendants did survive, his line wouldn't have ended thoughever

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Jwanon said:

 

If his females descendants did survive, his line wouldn't have ended thoughever

Lineage and descendants are apparently two separate things. His lineage is through a male, not a female.

[Dustparticle]

1 hour ago, trottigy said:

 

Do we know this? What was the lineage of the wives of Noah and his three sons?

 

EDIT: there is just so much we don't know. I am lookiing forward to seeing history reconstructed during the resurection process. Only a little while longer!

 

 His descendants (males or females ) were most likely violent. Look at Cain great grandson Lamech and what did he say in Genesis 4:23 " Then Laʹmech composed these words for his wives Aʹdah and Zilʹlah: “Hear my voice, you wives of Laʹmech;Give ear to my saying: A man I have killed for wounding me, Yes, a young man for striking me.²⁴ If 7 times Cain is to be avenged,k Then Laʹmech 77 times.” They were progressing to badness.

 

  If they were violent at this time, why would Noah's sons would marry their female descendants later if they were violent?

 

 

Edited November 7 by Dustparticle

[Dustparticle]

 

Here the latest on Trump and what is his plans.

 

 https://www.woodtv.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/5-ways-trumps-return-could-revamp-the-global-order/

[Shawnster]

6 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

Was sisters wearing pants at the meeting ever forbidden though?

 

Sisters wore skirts by convention, but I don't think that it was ever forbidden for women in attendance to wear them, no?

 

I mean, if a sister wore pants before the update, surely nobody would have kicked her out. So I don't see what exactly was the change

 

Unless I'm missing something 

Yes. 

 

Well, forbidden may not be the correct word, but sisters wearing pants was viewed the same as brothers having a beard. Such a choice of dress and grooming would not be considered exemplary, nor in good standing. 

 

This was such a way of thinking that anyone who chose to go against it really revealed their heart was not complete toward Jehovah. I know/knew a sister that was counseled for her attempt to regularly wear pants to the meeting. She ended up getting disfellowshipped, nut because of the pants, but because what was really in her heart. 

 

It's like today. Wearing a T Shirt and shorts to the meeting would be inappropriate. It's not dress attire. That's how sisters wearing slacks was viewed. 

[Mattclaxton]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Yes. 

 

Well, forbidden may not be the correct word, but sisters wearing pants was viewed the same as brothers having a beard. Such a choice of dress and grooming would not be considered exemplary, nor in good standing. 

 

This was such a way of thinking that anyone who chose to go against it really revealed their heart was not complete toward Jehovah. I know/knew a sister that was counseled for her attempt to regularly wear pants to the meeting. She ended up getting disfellowshipped, nut because of the pants, but because what was really in her heart. 

 

It's like today. Wearing a T Shirt and shorts to the meeting would be inappropriate. It's not dress attire. That's how sisters wearing slacks was viewed. 

Slightly off topic but where was the information that we couldn’t have beards. I didn’t know we couldn’t have them until we were told we could now have them. 

[Jwanon]

37 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Well, forbidden may not be the correct word, but sisters wearing pants was viewed the same as brothers having a beard. Such a choice of dress and grooming would not be considered exemplary, nor in good standing. 

 

Doesn't being "not exemplary" and "not in good standing" simply involve not giving public assignments to the meetings?

[Shawnster]

5 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Doesn't being "not exemplary" and "not in good standing" simply involve not giving public assignments to the meetings?

Dress and grooming can also affect who one works with in the ministry. In some cases elders have told ones that have dressed inappropriately to go home or work by themselves. Typically this has been someone dressing immodestly. 

 

Anyone can come to the KH wearing what they want. We have visitors all the time from all walks of life. Yes, you are correct in that our dress and grooming affects our standing in the congregation and our qualifications for assignments and privileges. 

 

Even ones in good standing and who are exemplary publishers have occasionally come to meetings dressed inappropriately. Typically these are ones who left work late and came straight to the meeting, choosing to attend as much of the meeting as possible instead of wasting time going home to change and possibly miss the entire meeting. Of course this was in the time before Zoom. As always, such experiences were the exception and not the rule. 

 

Bottom line is where is our heart? Do we insist on our own thinking or do we make concession for the conscience of others? Do we value sacred things and choose to give Jehovah our best, even in regards our dress and grooming? 

[carlos]

5 hours ago, Mattclaxton said:

Slightly off topic but where was the information that we couldn’t have beards. I didn’t know we couldn’t have them until we were told we could now have them. 

 

It was kind of an unwritten rule. Of course we could have beards, but then we would not be viewed as exemplary or receive any privileges. In some places it was stricter than in others. Where I live there were already a few ministerial servants and elders with beards, but you weren't allowed to have a talk or a demo or serve in any department in assemblies if you had a beard. Some congregations would not allow a bearded brother to give a public talk. In illustrations in our publications beards were used to identify who was the JW and who the non-JW. Students were often shown with a beard, then they shaved to highlight they were progressing.

 

I am very glad we got rid of this tradition of men. It may have been logical fifty years ago but it didn't make any sense anymore.

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Dustparticle said:

His descendants (males or females ) were most likely violent

This paints a whole lot of people with the same brush. It is possible for people raised in such rotten environments to change their ways. How many Witnesses come from backgrounds totally opposite of Jehovah's people? 

 

Cain's lineage of male descendants ended at the Flood. That's all we can say. Honestly we do not know the family history of Noah's wife nor the wives of his sons, nor Noah's mom's side. It's possible none of these women had a straight line of ancestry back to Adam. They all could be a mix of any number of Adam's children. Maybe Cain, maybe not. 

 

The Bible is silent on the matter. 

[Shawnster]

54 minutes ago, Mattclaxton said:

Slightly off topic but where was the information that we couldn’t have beards. I didn’t know we couldn’t have them until we were told we could now have them. 

An entire Governing Body Update dedicated to the history of beards and ending with the direction that beards are acceptable might be your first clue. 

 

 

[Ahuvah]

4 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

Do we know this? What was the lineage of the wives of Noah and his three sons?

 

EDIT: there is just so much we don't know. I am lookiing forward to seeing history reconstructed during the resurection process. Only a little while longer!

Yes we know that. I did the lineage a while back, so its provable. Interesting the first recorded polygamous marriage was through Cains line.

 

So for anyone to be sure themselves, get your pen and paper and start the family tree.

 

 

[Ahuvah]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Dress and grooming can also affect who one works with in the ministry. In some cases elders have told ones that have dressed inappropriately to go home or work by themselves. Typically this has been someone dressing immodestly. 

 

Anyone can come to the KH wearing what they want. We have visitors all the time from all walks of life. Yes, you are correct in that our dress and grooming affects our standing in the congregation and our qualifications for assignments and privileges. 

 

Even ones in good standing and who are exemplary publishers have occasionally come to meetings dressed inappropriately. Typically these are ones who left work late and came straight to the meeting, choosing to attend as much of the meeting as possible instead of wasting time going home to change and possibly miss the entire meeting. Of course this was in the time before Zoom. As always, such experiences were the exception and not the rule. 

 

Bottom line is where is our heart? Do we insist on our own thinking or do we make concession for the conscience of others? Do we value sacred things and choose to give Jehovah our best, even in regards our dress and grooming? 

Lovely post my friend, it's down to principles... we don't need laws, we just need to know Jehovah and his standards.

 

Which hasn't changed since the introduction of beards/pants for sisters, he's just added variety and is trusting us to carry his high standards still. 

[New World Explorer]

9 hours ago, chuck83 said:

Hamas Calls for 'Immediate' End to War After Trump Election Win
 

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-calls-immediate-end-war-after-trump-election-win-1981571

There are few points in the article that are not fully "accurate" and portray only one statement that Donald Trump made while omitting others. 

[Datsun_120Y]

10 hours ago, Jwanon said:

 

Was sisters wearing pants at the meeting ever forbidden though?

 

Sisters wore skirts by convention, but I don't think that it was ever forbidden for women in attendance to wear them, no?

 

I mean, if a sister wore pants before the update, surely nobody would have kicked her out. So I don't see what exactly was the change

 

Unless I'm missing something 

Definitely missing something 😆 

 

If a woman wore pants they were viewed as someone's study or a visitor. 

 

[Dustparticle]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

This paints a whole lot of people with the same brush. It is possible for people raised in such rotten environments to change their ways. How many Witnesses come from backgrounds totally opposite of Jehovah's people? 

 

Cain's lineage of male descendants ended at the Flood. That's all we can say. Honestly we do not know the family history of Noah's wife nor the wives of his sons, nor Noah's mom's side. It's possible none of these women had a straight line of ancestry back to Adam. They all could be a mix of any number of Adam's children. Maybe Cain, maybe not. 

 

The Bible is silent on the matter. 

 You might be right on this, if Cain male descendants were very violent, would we think that his female descendants were violent too?  If so, why would Noah would allow his sons to marry them?

[Ahuvah]

30 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

 You might be right on this, if Cain male descendants were very violent, would we think that his female descendants were violent too?  If so, why would Noah would allow his sons to marry them?

The other thing too ... they were banished quite a distance. My thoughts here are so the spiritual line wasn't contaminated.

 

Remember the statement by the FDS a while back? Spirituality runs in family? 

 

 

[trottigy]

I don't understand the term "contaminated" in reference to Noah and his sons' wives. Everyone was imperfect and none more than others -so where is the "contamination"?

 

Maybe, it is better for us to not judge one human over another or call one "contaminated" and another not. For that matter, who are we to sit in judgement over ALL of Cain's descendants and call them all violent or contaminated?

 

As to how anyone can make a lineage chart for women whose lineage is NOT listed in the Bible - I have no idea.

[SteveAus]

As the GB has said, in our new understandings, "We just don't know"

That covers a lot of territory...

Edited November 8 by SteveAus

[Dustparticle]

5 hours ago, trottigy said:

I don't understand the term "contaminated" in reference to Noah and his sons' wives. Everyone was imperfect and none more than others -so where is the "contamination"?

 

Maybe, it is better for us to not judge one human over another or call one "contaminated" and another not. For that matter, who are we to sit in judgement over ALL of Cain's descendants and call them all violent or contaminated?

 

As to how anyone can make a lineage chart for women whose lineage is NOT listed in the Bible - I have no idea.

 
You are right my brother. By looking at certain scriptures, we can determine certain situations were going on. Yes, Cain and therir descendants were put in a certain location and were very violent too.
 

 I guess we going find out the ancestors of the females who survive  the flood in the NW.

[Ahuvah]

7 hours ago, trottigy said:

I don't understand the term "contaminated" in reference to Noah and his sons' wives. Everyone was imperfect and none more than others -so where is the "contamination"?

 

Maybe, it is better for us to not judge one human over another or call one "contaminated" and another not. For that matter, who are we to sit in judgement over ALL of Cain's descendants and call them all violent or contaminated?

 

As to how anyone can make a lineage chart for women whose lineage is NOT listed in the Bible - I have no idea.

Jehovah as you know, started the detour from Genesis 3:15, he started preparing and preserving a lineage, a people and a land that would not only fulfill prophecy but provide a nurturing environment for his Son Jesus.

The contamination came from those angels who forsook their place and took whom they wished, it is logical to think that Jehovah kept a line clean from demonic contamination. It was not a comment toward the people themselves, but Jehovah would foresee how Satan was going to try and stop Genesis 3:15 from being fulfilled. We know he also preserved the pure Hebrew even when after the flood, the languages were confused.

The lineage from what I worked from is directly from those named in the scriptures ... nothing more.

Cains lineage ended the year of the flood.

(That though does  mean that individuals may have returned or attached themselves to pure worship) 

I used to rely on my memory of things ... I wished I had taken more comprehensive notes, as I get older I now write down articles and references that support my research. That's shame on me.

 

But again, this is from my search in the scriptures and nothing is set in concrete, as Jehovah can reveal things that were right in front of our eyes at any time he wishes.

 

Edited November 8 by Ahuvah

[New World Explorer]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has congratulated Donald Trump on 

winning the 2024 US election

, praised him for showing courage when a gunman tried to assassinate him, and said Russia was ready for dialogue with the Republican president-elect. Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday that Russia's leadership remembered Trump's words about trying to resolve the Ukraine crisis even if he exaggerated the speed at which he could do it.https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/vladimir-putin-praises-donald-trump-and-signals-willingness-to-discuss-ukraine-war/v6srn2lyu