Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Dages]

4 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Isn't everything just one more step closer? 

Yes  

[Dhanyel]

US, Ukraine and European officials hold ‘excellent exchange’ in Paris, in highest level talks in weeks

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/17/europe/us-ukraine-talks-europe-peace-intl/index.html

 

🤔

[Ahuvah]

7 hours ago, Dages said:

Yes  

Unless you're in a wheelchair then you'd be one wheel turn closer.

[Dhanyel]

US will abandon Ukraine peace push if no progress 'within a matter of days,' Rubio says

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-ready-abandon-efforts-broker-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-rubio-says-2025-04-18/

PARIS, April 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump will walk away from trying to broker a Russia-Ukraine peace deal within days unless there are clear signs that a deal can be done, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Friday.

"We're not going to continue with this endeavour for weeks and months on end. So we need to determine very quickly now, and I'm talking about a matter of days, whether or not this is doable in the next few weeks," Rubio said in Paris after meeting European and Ukrainian leaders.

[ChrisW]

1 hour ago, Dhanyel said:

US will abandon Ukraine peace push if no progress 'within a matter of days,' Rubio says

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-ready-abandon-efforts-broker-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-rubio-says-2025-04-18/

PARIS, April 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump will walk away from trying to broker a Russia-Ukraine peace deal within days unless there are clear signs that a deal can be done, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Friday.

"We're not going to continue with this endeavour for weeks and months on end. So we need to determine very quickly now, and I'm talking about a matter of days, whether or not this is doable in the next few weeks," Rubio said in Paris after meeting European and Ukrainian leaders.

Has this ever happened before,  that a so. called supporting country walks away.  What will that mean i wonder.

[Dolce vita]

🤷‍♀️

He started on his own, he's pulling back on his own. It will probably be the same with customs tariffs. When you're moving forward at an impasse, turning back is often very difficult. So you back down, it's the only solution, and observers laugh at you.

[ChrisW]

I just remember the outrage of people around me when Russia first invaded. I even got pushback from my boss about our neutrality. People were so ready to fight for Ukraine. I just wonder what will happen to Ukraine.

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, Dhanyel said:

US will abandon Ukraine peace push if no progress

Let me get this straight,

Trump blames Ukraine for prolonging the war by not pushing for peace.

Trump reduces aid and support to Ukraine to force them to push for peace.

Trump threatens Russia to push for peace

Russia doesn't respond to the push for peace fast enough

So now Trump just walks away and leaves Ukraine without aid and support?

 

Is that right?

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, ChrisW said:

Has this ever happened before,  that a so. called supporting country walks away.  What will that mean i wonder.

Walking away from peace talks is common 

[Shawnster]

2 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

 

So now Trump just walks away and leaves Ukraine without aid and support?

 

 

 

Which paragraph in that article prompted this question. Could you share it? 

[trottigy]

37 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Let me get this straight,

Trump blames Ukraine for prolonging the war by not pushing for peace.

Trump reduces aid and support to Ukraine to force them to push for peace.

Trump threatens Russia to push for peace

Russia doesn't respond to the push for peace fast enough

So now Trump just walks away and leaves Ukraine without aid and support?

 

Is that right?

 

I think we'll have to wait and see what "moving on" looks like.

 

"Speaking Friday, Rubio said he and Witkoff had come to Paris to “begin to talk about more specific outlines of what it might take to end the war” and whether or not this is a war that can be ended.

 

“If it’s not possible, if we’re so far apart that this is not going to happen then I think the president is probably at a point where he’s going to say we’re done,” he said.

 

“It’s not our war. We didn’t start it. The United States has been helping Ukraine for the past three years and we want it to end, but it’s not our war,” he added.

 

“President (Trump) has spent 87 days at the highest level of this government repeatedly taking efforts to bring this war to and end. We are now reaching a point when we need to decide and determine whether this is even possible or not. Which is why we’re engaging both sides.”

 

Meanwhile, Russia launched a missile attack on Ukraine overnight, hitting a residential neighborhood of the city of Kharkiv. The strike killed one person and wounded 67 others,"

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/18/europe/rubio-russia-war-in-ukraine-us-talks-intl-hnk/index.html

 

 

NOTE: If I was Russia and heard this ... I'd prolong things in the hopes that the US will stop supporting Ukraine. This is not a good negotiating strategy IMO. But then again - I don't know how to play 4-D chess (just the regular kind) 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by trottigy

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, trottigy said:

I'd prolong things in the hopes that the US will stop supporting Ukraine.

 

Nothing stopped the rest of Europe to help Ukraine the same way the US has. 

[Doug]

I still remember when certain nations (don't remember which ones) were in the early stages of talking about a peace agreement.

They haggled for months, possibly a year or more, over the shape of the table they would sit around!

Should it be round, oval, square, rectangle, something else?

Would the table give the impression that one chair was the "head" of the table?

 

These politicians and bureaucrats don't want to give the slightest hint that they conceded anything to the other side ahead of the actual talks.  It's no wonder these negotiations stall out.

 

 

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

I still remember when certain nations (don't remember which ones) were in the early stages of talking about a peace agreement.

They haggled for months, possibly a year or more, over the shape of the table they would sit around!

Should it be round, oval, square, rectangle, something else?

Would the table give the impression that one chair was the "head" of the table?

 

These politicians and bureaucrats don't want to give the slightest hint that they conceded anything to the other side ahead of the actual talks.  It's no wonder these negotiations stall out.

 

 

ChatGPT to the answer

 

Yes — you’re probably thinking of the **Paris Peace Talks** during the **Vietnam War** in the late 1960s.  

 

One of the famous sticking points early in those negotiations was literally about **the shape of the table** and the seating arrangement, because it would symbolically convey the status and legitimacy of the different parties involved (North Vietnam, South Vietnam, the U.S., and the Viet Cong/PRG).

 

The dispute over the table lasted several months — North Vietnam wanted a certain arrangement that acknowledged the Viet Cong as an independent delegation, while the U.S. and South Vietnam objected. They argued over whether it should be round, rectangular, separate tables, or some other shape that wouldn’t imply certain political recognitions.

 

In the end, they settled on a **round table** with **two rectangular tables on either side**, a deliberately ambiguous setup where no one was officially recognized as above, below, or equal to anyone else — and no official statements were made about what the arrangement meant.

 

It became a bit of a darkly humorous diplomatic footnote about how sometimes symbolism matters as much as substance in international negotiations.

 

 

[Cool.As.Ice]

I wonder how the US would respond if:

 

1) Russia invaded it

 

2) 20% of its coast were occupied (say,     Alaska, and the West Coast)

3)Their “allies” were extremely slow delivering all the weapons that they needed; and instead of securing a decisive military victory against the enemy, the enemy digs in and creates formidable defensive lines that are extremely difficult to break thru with conventional weapons.

 

4) The other great powers pushed it to negotiate with Russia to concede land for peace; knowing that Russia will simply rebuild and attack again later.

 

If the US were in Ukraine’s situation, the people would be up in arms and everyone would want to wipe the Russians off the face of the earth; down to the very last man, yet the President of the US wants to pressure an ally to give land to KOTN for the sake of peace. Very ironic, if you ask me. 
 

But it is something to think about. 🤔 

 

 

[Shawnster]

7 minutes ago, Cool.As.Ice said:

 

 

 

But it is something to think about. 🤔 

 

 

 

What is it we should think about beyond praying for our brothers and sisters in Ukraine as well as praying for God's Kingdom? 

 

This is a horrible situation that I tests our neutrality. It is easy for us to take sides and voice our anger and criticize or, at the least, question the logic and morality of decisions made by governments and politicians; however, that is the opposite of neutrality. 

 

Our hearts go out over the pain, suffering, and loss of life, but we must draw the line before we get mad at decisions the US or any nation makes regarding sending or withdrawing aid. 

[trottigy]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

 

Nothing stopped the rest of Europe to help Ukraine the same way the US has. 

 

No, nothing is stopping that, but again - if you were Russia -> would you want BOTH the EU AND the US fighting you or just the EU? That seems a pretty easy answer that doesn't require any argument, yes? Or maybe there is some 4-d chess move happening here?

 

 

PS - the EU has, is and said they will continue to support Ukaraine. So, that is already a given. The post was specfically about the US.

 

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

 

Edited 18 hours ago by trottigy

[Cool.As.Ice]

7 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

we must draw the line before we get mad at decisions the US or any nation makes regarding sending or withdrawing aid.

That was a hypothetical situation, not my real feelings on the matter. It was meant to put Ukraine’s situation in perspective.

 

In any case, the decisions by these politicians only prolong the suffering and make the during drag on and on. Who does it affect the most? The common people, including the friends. While everyone else makes endless debates at the round table.

 

With that said, WWI was much the same way.

There were several peace conferences in the years before 1914, but when the archduke was killed, the dominoes fell.

 

One nation after another declared war, then until about March 1918 the war settled into a grinding stalemate with brutal trench warfare. The war dragged on and on, until suddenly…it just ended.

 

Then “peace” developments with the Treaty of Versailles left several nations, especially Germany, bitter and resentful, eventually resulting in the Nazis coming to power and WWII being started.

 

The complete failure of human diplomacy should be evident to all, as all the nations are doing in the end is serving themselves and their own interests.

[vern]

This peace talking from the world is such a bait and switch......

[LeolaRootStew]

2 hours ago, Cool.As.Ice said:

If the US were in Ukraine’s situation, the people would be up in arms and everyone would want to wipe the Russians off the face of the earth; down to the very last man, yet the President of the US wants to pressure an ally to give land to KOTN for the sake of peace. Very ironic, if you ask me. 
 

But it is something to think about. 🤔 

 

 

 

That's what you do when you have no chance of winning. A desire for revenge does not equate to an ability to carry it out.

[vern]

This war has WW loss of life numbers.

 

Sad 🤕

[cme]

As we see prophecies being fulfilled, these ongoing wars are not important to JWs.   Yes, no doubt that this is the season,  it fulfills prophecy however, we do not want to lose sleep over it or become so engrossed and wonder about this or that.

 

The news are distracting.  Take bits of it, chew on it if you must.  Compare to what we have learned, scriptures, talks, conventions, etc. and move on.

 

We honestly do  not know all the particulars on how all of this will unravel.  One swift pitch from the Angels and its all over.

 

Jehovah will not wait for any nation to do anything.  When the time is up, its up.  On the other hand, I do admit that it is leading towards the end.

[Áine]

And while they continue to act like children with accusations of he started it… no you started it, we thankfully look to Jehovahs kingdom to bring a lasting peace

 

 sadly some witnesses do get drawn into the political quagmire and start to lose sight of their neutrality, the only person who gains in this scenario is Satan

 

 It’s EXTREMELY hard to stay neutral which is why I limit the amount of time now that I watch the news etc…. It’s so easy to get dragged down to their level instead of standing strongly in our neutrality

[Timl1980]

6 minutes ago, Áine said:

 It’s EXTREMELY hard to stay neutral which is why I limit the amount of time now that I watch the news etc…. It’s so easy to get dragged down to their level instead of standing strongly in our neutrality

 

And THIS is why I stay out of these discussions.

 

Not only do I not know what I am talking about...I don't want to know. Curiosity has its place...and staying informed has its place as well...but I don't ever WANT to understand everything that is going on...I don't WANT to be that "in tune".

 

A brother from Bethel told me months ago...we are preparing to WALK into the new system...what kind of THOUGHTS do I want to be in my mind?

 

In other words...am I creating more work for myself by learning all of Satan's tricks and lies...only to have to turn around and unlearn it all in the new system?

 

Yes...we will ALL have to do this to some extent...but am I making it harder on myself than is necessary?

 

It gave me serious pause...and much more serious food for thought.

 

I went back to Hezekiah and his prayer to Jehovah against overwhelming odds...did Hezekiah start to do the mental calculations on how big of a force he was actually facing AFTER turning to Jehovah in prayer?

 

Even if he did...did he OUTWARDLY express it...thus getting his fellow brothers and sisters more scared?

 

There is nothing wrong with discussing any of this...it was simply something that a brother shared with me personally...because I am dealing with some of this personally right now.

 

At the end of the day...Jehovah is in the driver's seat...his chariot can move instantly...in any direction its needed. All we have to do...is hang on...and go for the ride!

 

May all of you have a wonderful evening...and may Jehovah continue to strengthen each of you!

[Shawnster]

45 minutes ago, vern said:

This war has WW loss of life numbers.

 

Sad 🤕

Source?