Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Ahuvah]

58 minutes ago, feebee said:

You have to look at the context. He's specifically referring to Armageddon and the "signs" that are so persuasive that they compel the kings of the entire inhabited earth to gather together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. But the encouragement is to keep our outer garments, our identity as true Christians, and not be fooled by demonic propaganda now or in the future. We're not in darkness. So whatever form P & S takes, we'll see it for what it is. 

Isn't that what I said? 

I think my sister, we are on the same page. Funny 😁 

Edited July 27 by Ahuvah

[Richie]

 

Germany Begins Destroying Islamic Mosques Spreading Extremism... 

[Hotteok]

Hatred against religion in general is really heating up... maybe even boiling. 

[Dages]

7 hours ago, Doug said:

 

When I looked at the video I thought it was just 'wokeness', inclusion, diversity etc.

But I've since seen on social media this may also be a mockery of christianity. It resembles christendoms last supper.  The main character in the middle like a christ with the sun behind the head, emanating rays of light.

I have no idea what the 'message' is or who its for.  Not me.

That was exactly the point. Mocking christianity

[LeolaRootStew]

5 hours ago, Dages said:

That was exactly the point. Mocking christianity

 

It's free advertising. "Christians" love to hate-watch anything that mocks them so they tell everyone they know about it. This leads to Christians and non-Christians watching the spectacle.

 

The internet does not give you more of what you love, it gives you more of what you interact with. They are unwittingly feeding into their own persecution by putting a spotlight on it - now it's a profitable business move to mock Christianity.

 

Makes me think that the direction to not  interact with apostate material is even wiser than I thought - don't feed the enemy.

[Abigail]

15 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

I've not read that, the links that Trottigy put up says the opposite. I've heard them say they don't know in what way it will be conveyed to us. That I agree with. 

But again, along the Scriptural reasoning that signs and wonders from the demonic section in conjunction with these three expressions in Revelation would suggest to me, we would very definitely know, as the signs and wonders will be convincing many they have 'Peace,' 

I'd love to see anything you have where they've said it won't be an announcement.  That would help me out tremendously in my research. 

Lovely to read your post.

 

It was an annual meeting that implied this. The talk was "Is this it?". Will try to find.

[cme]

Read the Dooms Day clock.  Information that is very disturbing as to what they know and what is now taking place.

[Abigail]

15 minutes ago, Abigail said:

 

It was an annual meeting that implied this. The talk was "Is this it?". Will try to find.

 

Got it. Says we may not know until after Babylon the Great starts to be destroyed.

 

2018 annual meeting. Brother Morris from 49 minutes

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwb_201901_3_VIDEO

Edited July 27 by Abigail

[Abigail]

21 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

I find it's good to remember that Morning Worships are taken from the Day's Text, which is backed up by WT etc, therefore it has already appeared in print. 

New direction or clarified understanding is always backed up after the fact in print. The August WT being a prime example.

I know I can trust what is either coming from the platform, by extension jw broadcasting and morning worships, or an older publication that is still current and hasnt been officially updated or clarified, because either they are the Slave or working close with them. 

 

I hear you if you've been trying to research with no avail ... I've just started a personal database to enter references of my own so I don't forget. Often when I'm transcribing there's a point I want to save as in this case. 

 

Lovely to meet you Abigail. 

 

Still can't find the day text or Watchtower article that this Morning Worship refers to. Does anyone else have it?

 

Not too sure if all Morning Worships are totally based on what is already in print. If they were, why were all of Brother Morris' removed from JW.org? There must be a degree of personal opinion permitted.

Edited July 27 by Abigail

[Ahuvah]

2 hours ago, Abigail said:

 

Still can't find the day text or Watchtower article that this Morning Worship refers to. Does anyone else have it?

 

Not too sure if all Morning Worships are totally based on what is already in print. If they were, why were all of Brother Morris' removed from JW.org? There must be a degree of personal opinion permitted.

Considering what you are saying here, then that could also be true of the link you posted in your previous post yes? That could also carry personal opinion. I am happy with the Scriptural reasoning of Brother Schaefer.  But thank you so much for your research, I'll check it out when I have time.  🌹 

The reason also for going with Brother Schaefer on this is the supported printed WTs posted by Brother Jerry.

Edited July 27 by Ahuvah

[Osprey]

Now it seems that Hezbollah (at least they say so) killed and injured many kids playing soccer in Israel with their missile. There are strong voices for a very strong retaliation by Israel in their government. Lets see how this plays out!

Such a sad event!

[Julsey]

On 7/25/2024 at 2:51 PM, Araujo JW said:

 

Just to give everyone some context, Sister Mandi refers to this talk:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/pub-jwb_201802_12_VIDEO

I’m not finding it. 😞

[Dustparticle]

23 minutes ago, Osprey said:

Now it seems that Hezbollah (at least they say so) killed and injured many kids playing soccer in Israel with their missile. There are strong voices for a very strong retaliation by Israel in their government. Lets see how this plays out!

Such a sad event!

 Usually, this goes on too.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1e5y8ny1l4o

Edited July 27 by Dustparticle

[Ahuvah]

54 minutes ago, Julsey said:

I’m not finding it. 😞

It's through jw.org that link so takes a while to load. You can find it in our Morning Worships on jwlibrary. 

You could also also type 'Peace and Security ' into jw,org and it's one the videos that turn up there.

[Ahuvah]

7 hours ago, Abigail said:

 

Got it. Says we may not know until after Babylon the Great starts to be destroyed.

 

2018 annual meeting. Brother Morris from 49 minutes

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwb_201901_3_VIDEO

This is later information from that talk. Hope this helps.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

19-20. (a) What have we learned so far? (b) What more do we need to learn?

¹⁹ According to Bible prophecy, the next major event that will soon take place on the world scene is the nations’ proclamation of “peace and security.” Thanks to what Jehovah has taught us, we know that the nations will not achieve real and lasting peace. What should we do before that event occurs and sudden destruction follows? Jehovah expects us to keep busy preaching the Kingdom message and trying to make more disciples. At the same time, we need to keep separate from all false religion. That includes withdrawing from any memberships and avoiding employment associated with Babylon the Great.

²⁰ There are other events to follow during the last of “the last days.” There are also other things that Jehovah expects us to do. What are these, and how can we prepare ourselves for everything that is coming in the near future? We will see in the next article.

 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019602?q=peace+and+security&p=par already quoted a few pages back. Summary of that WT study, so even if your 2018 link is accurate, this later article trumps that. If there's something even later that tweaks our understanding I'd be very interested.

 

EDIT: Actually thinking on prep time to produce the WT, this information would have been pretty much about the same time that the 2018 Annual Meeting occurred. 

 

 

 

Edited July 27 by Ahuvah

[hatcheckgirl]

2 hours ago, Osprey said:

Now it seems that Hezbollah (at least they say so) killed and injured many kids playing soccer in Israel with their missile. There are strong voices for a very strong retaliation by Israel in their government. Lets see how this plays out!

Such a sad event!

In my newsfeed this morning:

“At least 30 Palestinians were killed by an Israeli strike on a girls' school being used by displaced people in the central Gazan city of Deir Al-Balah on Saturday, Palestinian health officials said.

The death toll was provided by both Gaza's health ministry and the Hamas-run government media office, which also said over 100 others were wounded.” And again, there were a lot of children deaths and injuries.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-27/israeli-strike-kills-30-in-central-gaza/104151332?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=

 

Just highlights how really awful this war is. Whose children matter most in these people’s mind? 😞

[Kwabena]

10 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

They are unwittingly feeding into their own persecution by putting a spotlight on it - now it's a profitable business move to mock Christianity.

That's why I thought of when I saw the Olympics thing. And a lot of people fell for it. Maybe things like these are what will lead to the fall of BTG. 

 

These people makes disgusting parodies of Biblical scenes like the ones in the Olympics.

 

Religious people gets fed up and reacts to the (perhaps with violence). Some people have started saying that people make such parodies because "Christians" act "soft" (as compared to religions like Islam)

 

The world use that violence as a reason to put some restrictions on religion and other religious activities.

 

Religious reactions intensifies and that ultimately leads to a complete ban.

[Ahuvah]

4 minutes ago, Kwabena said:

That's why I thought of when I saw the Olympics thing. And a lot of people fell for it. Maybe things like these are what will lead to the fall of BTG. 

Anything could be a trigger now. The world structure is so fragile. There were three different protests in London in last few days.

[Doug]

11 hours ago, Abigail said:

 

Still can't find the day text or Watchtower article that this Morning Worship refers to. Does anyone else have it?

 

 

Br. Schafer said at 7:15 the source of his talk is the article 'Your Deliverance Is Getting Near' July 15, 2015.

He mentions our message will change to one of judgment, as we used to think.

 

 

Edited July 28 by Doug
make it better

[Ahuvah]

24 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

Br. Schafer said at 7:15 the source of his talk is the article 'Your Deliverance Is Getting Near' July 15, 2015.

He mentions our message will change to one of judgment, as we used to think.

 

 

So better to use that 2019 WT ... to tweak any understanding.  Can't see anything more recent.

 

Except I did find this interesting little tidbit: 

"Sudden destruction is to be instantly on them:

This piece here:

Paul here indicates that there will be little or no time between the proclamation of “peace and security” and the destruction that will come upon those making that cry. It will be sudden and inescapable.

 

The Greek phrase contains two terms (rendered “sudden” and “be instantly on”) to emphasize the striking suddenness with which the destruction will come. A similar combination of terms appears at Lu 21:34, where the coming of Jehovah’s day is described." 

Source 1 Thessalonians 5:3 study notes in the Bible.

 

So that tells me that having our focus on the demise of BTG isn't wrong as there will be little to no time between the two.

Edited July 28 by Ahuvah

[Abigail]

6 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

This is later information from that talk. Hope this helps.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

19-20. (a) What have we learned so far? (b) What more do we need to learn?

¹⁹ According to Bible prophecy, the next major event that will soon take place on the world scene is the nations’ proclamation of “peace and security.” Thanks to what Jehovah has taught us, we know that the nations will not achieve real and lasting peace. What should we do before that event occurs and sudden destruction follows? Jehovah expects us to keep busy preaching the Kingdom message and trying to make more disciples. At the same time, we need to keep separate from all false religion. That includes withdrawing from any memberships and avoiding employment associated with Babylon the Great.

²⁰ There are other events to follow during the last of “the last days.” There are also other things that Jehovah expects us to do. What are these, and how can we prepare ourselves for everything that is coming in the near future? We will see in the next article.

 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019602?q=peace+and+security&p=par already quoted a few pages back. Summary of that WT study, so even if your 2018 link is accurate, this later article trumps that. If there's something even later that tweaks our understanding I'd be very interested.

 

EDIT: Actually thinking on prep time to produce the WT, this information would have been pretty much about the same time that the 2018 Annual Meeting occurred. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks sister. I totally agree with you on this. That was never my problem.

 

What I would like to see backed up in print or a subsequent talk is the link between the demon inspired expressions of Revelation 16:13 (the text for Br Schafer's Morning Worship was 16:16) and the cry of peace and security at 1 Thess 5:3. As others have said, the context of the Revelation scripture is the final gathering of the nations to Armageddon. 

Edited July 28 by Abigail

[Ahuvah]

27 minutes ago, Abigail said:

 

Thanks sister. I totally agree with you on this. That was never my problem.

 

What I would like to see backed up in print or a subsequent talk is the link between the demon inspired expressions of Revelation 16:13 (the text for Br Schafer's Morning Worship was 16:16) and the cry of peace and security at 1 Thess 5:3. As others have said, the context of the Revelation scripture is the final gathering of the nations to Armageddon. 

Okay I get you. He linked 1 Thessalonians 5:3 with the same expressions that gather all the Kings of the Earth to Armageddon. He said ... hold on ... I'll get his exact words ...

 

Okay here are his words verbatim. I'll give you my reasoning on them so you can get inside my head a little. (You won't stay too long it's pretty busy in here) 

His words: (please check with video to be sure) 

 

Okay here he begins with Satan stepping up his efforts since 1914 ... how? One way using signs and wonders ... I'm thinking one of those could be 'faith healing' and the like.

Brother Schaefer:

"Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead the entire inhabited earth, and one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans, that Satan's way of ruling is the best, that humans can actually achieve Peace and Security through their own systems and governments.

 

Now he brings in P&S ... becoming more focused on the accompanying signs with expressions.

 

 Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 1-3, they will soon be saying that they actually achieved Peace and Security.

 Now adding to the power of these inspired expressions are the signs. The signs make it seem as if these expressions are actually coming true.

 

Here hes saying that through these inspired expressions and signs they will think they, (the inspired expressions) will have the backing of God ... drumroll please ... 😄 🤣  .... 

IF THEY USE THAT EXPRESSION 'THAT GOD IS BACKING THEM' THEN RELIGION IS STILL AROUND.

IF THIS WAS BEING USED SOLELY TO GATHER ALL THE NATIONS ... RELIGION AT THAT POINT, IS NO LONGER AROUND... THEY WON'T HAVE A RELIGIOUS ENTITY TO MAKE THEM THINK GOD IS BEHIND THEM. 

 

Perhaps, that they even have the backing of God, but the only God backing these particular inspired expressions is the god of this system of things. 

Is it unprecedented that Satan the Devil would use miracles in an attempt to lend credibility to his ideas, his wicked lies? Exodus 7 verses 10 through 12, Jehovah empowers Aarons rod to become a snake, but Pharoahs magic practicing priests mimicked that very sign. Likewise they mimicked the first and the second other Ten Plagues. Okay, but what about after the Christian congregation came into existence? Paul indicated at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 that the  Apostate movement that eventually gave birth to the clergy of Christendom would be backed by 'the operation  of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders. ..."

 

It is making me wonder and this is conjecture at this point so dont coin me, that these two events, although coming from different sources will be so close together it may be perceived by those not with Jehovah’s spirit as one event, with a short recess in between. To us though ... as a whole ... we should be able to see it.

 

Thank you dear sister Abigail for making me work. Loving this!

Edited July 28 by Ahuvah

[Abigail]

21 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

Okay I get you. He linked 1 Thessalonians 5:3 with the same expressions that gather all the Kings of the Earth to Armageddon. He said ... hold on ... I'll get his exact words ...

 

Okay here are his words verbatim. I'll give you my reasoning on them so you can get inside my head a little. (You won't stay too long it's pretty busy in here) 

His words: (please check with video to be sure) 

 

Okay here he begins with Satan stepping up his efforts since 1914 ... how? One way using signs and wonders ... I'm thinking one of those could be 'faith healing' and the like.

Brother Schaefer:

"Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead the entire inhabited earth, and one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans, that Satan's way of ruling is the best, that humans can actually achieve Peace and Security through their own systems and governments.

 

Now he brings in P&S ... becoming more focused on the accompanying signs with expressions.

 

 Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 1-3, they will soon be saying that they actually achieved Peace and Security.

 Now adding to the power of these inspired expressions are the signs. The signs make it seem as if these expressions are actually coming true.

 

Here hes saying that through these inspired expressions and signs they will think they, (the inspired expressions) will have the backing of God ... drumroll please ... 😄 🤣  .... 

IF THEY USE THAT EXPRESSION 'THAT GOD IS BACKING THEM' THEN RELIGION IS STILL AROUND.

IF THIS WAS BEING USED SOLELY TO GATHER ALL THE NATIONS ... RELIGION AT THAT POINT, IS NO LONGER AROUND... THEY WON'T HAVE A RELIGIOUS ENTITY TO MAKE THEM THINK GOD IS BEHIND THEM. 

 

Perhaps, that they even have the backing of God, but the only God backing these particular inspired expressions is the god of this system of things. 

Is it unprecedented that Satan the Devil would use miracles in an attempt to lend credibility to his ideas, his wicked lies? Exodus 7 verses 10 through 12, Jehovah empowers Aarons rod to become a snake, but Pharoahs magic practicing priests mimicked that very sign. Likewise they mimicked the first and the second other Ten Plagues. Okay, but what about after the Christian congregation came into existence? Paul indicated at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 that the  Apostate movement that eventually gave birth to the clergy of Christendom would be backed by 'the operation  of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders. ..."

 

It is making me wonder and this is conjecture at this point so dont coin me, that these two events, although coming from different sources will be so close together it may be perceived by those not with Jehovah’s spirit as one event, with a short recess in between. To us though ... as a whole ... we should be able to see it.

 

Thank you dear sister Abigail for making me work. Loving this!

 

Thank you dear sister for this glimpse inside your head. It is going to take me a while to digest this x

[Ahuvah]

2 minutes ago, Abigail said:

 

Thank you dear sister for this glimpse inside your head. It is going to take me a while to digest this x

As it should.  I would NEVER want someone else to think my thinking was correct without digestion and prayer and if for some reason I have it wonky,  hit me with a proverbial bat.

 

[Tortuga]

15 hours ago, Abigail said:

Thank you dear sister for this glimpse inside your head

That's a scary place to be, at least there is a lot of room...