2024 Governing Body Update #2

[Pjdriver]

I think one problem from moving closer to the middle with styles is that some will  have a hard time distinguishing between casual and more dress up. I’m sure there will be an adjustment period....then it will be fine.  

Edited March 18 by Pjdriver

[Abigail]

10 hours ago, Qapla said:

I have heard several brothers wonder if, now that sisters can wear slacks, can brothers wear Kilts

 

 

They already do at conventions - Glasgow 2019!

[LeolaRootStew]

12 hours ago, Robinson said:

Out of curiosity...how did you conclude that those on the boats are the resurrected? I just figured it was brothers/sisters coming in from sailboating. Lol

 

The guy on the right is covering his face as if he is experiencing the shock of seeing someone who was dead, and the brother on the left has a list that I assume is of the resurrected. The little girl and her Father are probably waiting for her Mother. Obviously it's just speculation, but it seems like they wouldn't bother making such a detailed picture of a normal day of boats arriving in a random place. It should be special, right?

 

Additional: at 1:32 you see two Sisters hugging and then it zooms in to show 3 new arrivals looking around as if they've never seen the place before. All of the people who are already there are looking expectedly at the arrivals - none of these reactions would make sense for a normal day of sailing.

Edited March 18 by LeolaRootStew

[LeolaRootStew]

12 hours ago, Eejay said:

 

Maybe you didn't watch the video frame by frame as the sister suggested?

Virtually the whole video is set after Armageddon and presents a fascinating glimpse of the new order. It is very different from some of the rural and rather rustic imaginings that some might have. I love the clip of the brother looking at the plans for a house and then the framework in place. Great reminder of what we are aiming for.

 

Yes, but the current topic is about looking for clues for future updates, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to see in a Paradise video, either.

[Andrey]

48 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

The little girl and her Father are probably waiting for her Mother.

 

I think that regarding the resurrection, some points should be clarified a bit:

1. How long will it take to bring order and turn the whole earth into a Garden?

Survivors of Armageddon will need plenty of time to clean up the Earth after the devastation. The Earth is big and it takes a lot of effort and time to turn it into a Garden. Yes, Jesus and the 144,000 will help bring order, but people will also have to make an effort to recreate Paradise conditions.

 

2. When does the resurrection begin, how many years after Armageddon?

In the book of Isaiah, it speaks of a New Earth, a New Society that will survive Armageddon and this society will be the pattern, the standard for those who will be resurrected, both the righteous and especially the unrighteous. Therefore, after Armageddon, the people will be taught the new laws for some time to fulfill the purpose that Jehovah and Jesus will set before this New Nation, the Great Multitude. How long this training will take we do not know. But there will be plenty of time and most likely a long time.

 

3. Can a child who survives Armageddon be preserved at the same age to meet his or her parent when Jesus resurrects Dad or Mom?

Children grow up, so if a child, even a young child, survives Armageddon, they can't meet their parent at that age. It can't be like that. When the resurrection begins, I think (but, I could be wrong), all children, will have reached adulthood. Time does not stand still. In the video, it's likely the dad carried the baby out to greet the resurrected.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Andrey

[Amygdala]

2 hours ago, Mike047 said:

A fine outfit for social events, but is it as appropriate for the meetings or ministry, where we are all trying to blend in with the rest of our brothers and sisters?

 

This is the point, isn’t it? Whatever is proper for the local community/culture/area. I would imagine it would be more formal in certain cultures, even within the same country. For us here, the brothers wearing ties in our community and the culture we are trying to reach, wearing formal attire just comes across negatively, so some of the brothers would zip up their jackets and cover their ties to not look intimidating. 

 

But I am confident the GB trusts that the sisters know what is appropriate as proper dress (no pun intended) and non-proper dress for their particular areas. The announcement that “slacks allowed” was simply mentioned for literally a few seconds at the end of the update, shows that it’s not something the GB sees a need to make exceptional rules about or explanations on how the sisters should wear it modestly. Other than no fitness wear, jeans or maybe anything that would resemble worldly styles (like holes or advertising).

Edited March 18 by Amygdala

[Andrey]

52 minutes ago, Andrey said:

 

I think that regarding the resurrection, some points should be clarified a bit:

1. How long will it take to bring order and turn the whole earth into a Garden?

Survivors of Armageddon will need plenty of time to clean up the Earth after the devastation. The Earth is big and it takes a lot of effort and time to turn it into a Garden. Yes, Jesus and the 144,000 will help bring order, but people will also have to make an effort to recreate Paradise conditions.

 

2. When does the resurrection begin, how many years after Armageddon?

In the book of Isaiah, it speaks of a New Earth, a New Society that will survive Armageddon and this society will be the pattern, the standard for those who will be resurrected, both the righteous and especially the unrighteous. Therefore, after Armageddon, the people will be taught the new laws for some time to fulfill the purpose that Jehovah and Jesus will set before this New Nation, the Great Multitude. How long this training will take we do not know. But there will be plenty of time and most likely a long time.

 

3. Can a child who survives Armageddon be preserved at the same age to meet his or her parent when Jesus resurrects Dad or Mom?

Children grow up, so if a child, even a young child, survives Armageddon, they can't meet their parent at that age. It can't be like that. When the resurrection begins, I think (but, I could be wrong), all children, will have reached adulthood. Time does not stand still. In the video, it's likely the dad carried the baby out to greet the resurrected.

 

 

 

4. If a child and a parent died, who would be more prudent to bring back to life first, the parent or the child?

The Bible says we are to take care of the orphans, James 1:27, but I think it would be more prudent to bring the parents back to life first rather than the child meeting the parents at the resurrection.

Edited March 18 by Andrey

[LeolaRootStew]

59 minutes ago, Andrey said:

Can a child who survives Armageddon be preserved at the same age to meet his or her parent when Jesus resurrects Dad or Mom?

Children grow up, so if a child, even a young child, survives Armageddon, they can't meet their parent at that age. It can't be like that. When the resurrection begins, I think (but, I could be wrong), all children, will have reached adulthood. Time does not stand still. In the video, it's likely the dad carried the baby out to greet the resurrected

12 minutes ago, Andrey said:

 

4. If a child and a parent died, who would be more prudent to raise first, the parent or the child?

The Bible says we are to take care of the orphans, James 1:27, but I think it would be more prudent to raise the parents first than the child who would meet the parents at the resurrection.

 

That's a good point. I think it's also possible that parents with growing children will be prioritized in the resurrection so they don't miss the rest of their children's childhood. We'll have to wait and see.

 

They could also be waiting for her Grandmother.

Edited March 18 by LeolaRootStew

[McKay]

I think this topic brings up a lot of things to consider.

 

We had our CA with Branch yesterday and a few sisters in slacks, a few brothers without ties (including me), and about 40% of the brothers had beards, including the Branch rep. I've talked to a few elders and some are taking the updates poorly. They fear we're yielding to the masses and not setting ourselves apart from the likes of Christendom.

 

But an interesting point was made during the final talk. The speaker said that we should see these changes as coming from Jehovah, not men.

 

So that's an interesting thing to remember when we're "afraid" to be the first to wear slacks. Who are you afraid of, sisters? Or you're "worried" about losing the tie? Who are you worried about, brothers? This is Jehovah's organization. Run with it, if you so choose!

 

On a practical matter, I think this is a great change for many families and even our studies. I have 4 sons and it is very expensive keeping them clothed for meetings as they grow. When we first went back after Covid, I spend $1500 on new suits and alterations for myself and the kids because we had all grown or gained weight!

 

But what about women we might study with who have never worn a skirt or dress, don't own one, don't WANT to wear one, and are hesitant to come to meetings because they know it's expected? They don't have the spiritual appreciation yet, and so this is keeping them from making progress. These women can now join us in worship, and that's a very good thing.

 

Finally, my wife and others have suggested that part of these changes might end up being a protection during the GT as it will harder to distinguish us. 

 

Whatever the case, servants of Jehovah should anticipate change. Although Jehovah does not change, he is clearly fond of leading his people closer and closer to His truth.

[Kunlesky]

11 hours ago, DancesWithWife said:

It worked for Rowdy Roddy Piper. He just needs a tie as he is wearing a jacket. 

 

I reckon it’s similar to men wearing Japanese Kimonos. When we look around the world, these borderline dresses in the grey areas have those for males and those for females. Pantsuits for women, kilts, wrappers and kimonos for men along with whatever the Fiji people call that dress🤷‍♂️

[Tortuga]

So here is an interesting thought.

What if this time next year the brothers reverse their decision about beards, ties, coats, slacks and require a strictly conservative dress code for the meetings. How would you feel?

[Friends just call me Ross]

3 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

So here is an interesting thought.

What if this time next year the brothers reverse their decision about beards, ties, coats, slacks and require a strictly conservative dress code for the meetings. How would you feel?

 

It's like riding a bike...you never forget how to do it.  

[Pjdriver]

27 minutes ago, McKay said:

But what about women we might study with who have never worn a skirt or dress, don't own one, don't WANT to wear one, and are hesitant to come to meetings because they know it's expected? They don't have the spiritual appreciation yet, and so this is keeping them from making progress. These women can now join us in worship, and that's a very good thing.

Good point.  Like Paul and Bob Dylan both said: “Times, they are a Changin’ “

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. -Paul

[McKay]

9 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

So here is an interesting thought.

What if this time next year the brothers reverse their decision about beards, ties, coats, slacks and require a strictly conservative dress code for the meetings. How would you feel?

Same as I do now: Jump in with both feet!

[DancesWithWife]

21 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

How would you feel?

Change is inevitable. My feelings? I have strong feelings about everything. Do I express them? No. How I personally feel is not the issue. Is it something that goes against God? Does it violate a Bible principle? As long as those factors are involved, my feelings are not important. I would just move on with the adjustment. As the old expression states "Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.:

Edited March 18 by DancesWithWife
Added comment and cartoon

[Pjdriver]

18 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

So here is an interesting thought.

What if this time next year the brothers reverse their decision about beards, ties, coats, slacks and require a strictly conservative dress code for the meetings. How would you feel?

I remember I had a personal conversation with Brother Jaracz years ago and we were talking about changes. 

He specifically said; Before we take any action or make any changes, we want to be sure, we won’t have to “Backup”.   Meaning reverse any decisions.  

One thing you can be sure of is that the GB gave this a lot of consideration,

including the optics and feelings of some the Ultra Conservations among us....and the culture shock some may experience . 

 

They found a balance, which is not easy to do. 

 

Now we just have to also be balanced in our approach to being less “formal”, yet not casual.  

Edited March 18 by Pjdriver

[Patience87]

I have meditated on these changes and in light of the season of the Memorial, so my thoughts turned to Jesus. When he was on earth, would he have had opinions on dress and would he voice his personal opinion about it? I can't imagine he would ever say anything, and I can't even imagine he would even entertain thoughts about things that are a personal choice. We know he had way more important things on his mind. 

 

I personally struggle with being judgmental in general which I constantly have to work on, so I am trying to imitate our Master and dismiss any opinionated thoughts. We're imperfect humans so we still have to deal with those thoughts, but what we do with them can make our heavenly Father happy. Jehovah loves variety and he has given us the option to choose how we dress with just a few principles. So remember having opinions is human, but it is a slippery slope to becoming judgmental of others. 

[Tortuga]

5 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

Now we just have to also be balanced in our approach to being less “formal”, yet not casual.

We need to print those words and put them on our refrigerator.

We need magnets and bookmarkers that say that.

We need tie bars that....oh, cancel that one...

[Friends just call me Ross]

[JonE]

With the different standard for stage, there are jokes about keeping extra ties and jackets for emergency use. Explain to me how this is any different than white shirts years ago, or the long black coat decades before that. I thought the goal was to get closer to the fact that the Bible simply doesn’t make these rules, and yet here we are always ending back at the same place.

[Tortuga]

5 minutes ago, JonE said:

With the different standard for stage, there are jokes about keeping extra ties and jackets for emergency use. Explain to me how this is any different than white shirts years ago, or the long black coat decades before that. I thought the goal was to get closer to the fact that the Bible simply doesn’t make these rules, and yet here we are always ending back at the same place.

It's always fun to joke about something new, sometimes it helps us see the change through someone elses eyes and get a better appreciation for how others feel about it. Lighten up, smile and share in the joy of your brothers and sisters.

[DancesWithWife]

4 minutes ago, JonE said:

Explain to me how this is any different than white shirts years ago, or the long black coat decades before that.

I can't explain. It's the decision that was made. We were talking yesterday why the clothes guidelines were different for visiting Bethel. We are not sure, it does really matter as we don't plan on visiting due to health concerns. Change is inevitable as I have stated, sometimes change is slow or stagnant. I will let the scenario play out to see what happens. I don't understand all the choices, the reasons behind those choices. I just want to keep peace. And that's coming from someone who has strong views. 

[Mike047]

1 hour ago, Amygdala said:

The announcement that “slacks allowed” was simply mentioned for literally a few seconds at the end of the update, shows that it’s not something the GB sees a need to make exceptional rules about or explanations

I think the difficulty will be in the brothers in different congregation advising those in their congregation a local application, which may not be the intent of the GB. Some appear to already be doing this.

[McKay]

27 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

One thing you can be sure of is that the GB gave this a lot of consideration,

including the optics and feelings of some the Ultra Conservations among us....and the culture shock some may experience . 

 

They found a balance, which is not easy to do. 

 

Now we just have to also be balanced in our approach to being less “formal”, yet not casual.  

 

Good points, although also keep in mind that Jehovah is making the changes, not men. So that must mean Jehovah trusts his people not to take things too far. 

[Mike047]

Now I have a better understanding of why we need 1,000 years