The Backfire Effect - why some topics become debates

[computerwiz]

I was recently reminded of the Backfire Effect, which is something that tends to happen when someone presents an idea that is contrary to a belief we have.  Whether it be about health, science, the weather, etc.

 

Here's a cute cartoon to illustrate the point.  It's a little long, but worth consideration, especially because we have topics that popup every now and then that turn into debates.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6875436/

http://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-man-the-myth/the-trouble-with-teeth/

http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/did-george-washington-have-wooden-teeth

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/upshot/george-washingtons-weakness-his-teeth.html?_r=0

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/george-washingtons-false-teeth-come-slaves-look-evidence-responses-evidence-limitations-history/

http://www.snopes.com/george-washington-wooden-teeth/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sources

https://books.google.com/books?id=Q7CkHF7xTuYC&pg=PT116#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/forget-napoleon-height-rules/

 

 

Sources

http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2016258_2016259_2016274,00.html

 

 

Sources

https://web.archive.org/web/20130301174011/http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/400-499/nb453.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housefly#Life_cycle

 

 

 

 

Sources

http://www.webcitation.org/68Aef3glC?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagine.gsfc.nasa.gov%2Fdocs%2Fask_astro%2Fanswers%2F970603.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/04/07/1320013.htm

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/biblical-evidence-shows-jesus-christ-wasnt-born-on-dec-25

http://www.livescience.com/42976-when-was-jesus-born.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_of_birth_of_Jesus

 

 

Sources

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy

http://boingboing.net/2016/09/10/a-socialist-wrote-the-pledge-o.html

 

 

Sources

http://www.heraldcourier.com/news/roe-v-wade-approved-by-republican-appointees/article_4fa2fb82-d738-5a11-95b6-650037c19451.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade#Supreme_Court_decision

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h2603.html

 

 

Now I know the last 3 don't affect JWs much, but put yourself in a worldly person's shoes.  I'm sure the last 3 would have MUCH more impact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11 by computerwiz

[Dages]

Cute. That's why is sometimes difficult to preach and that we no longer debate with people.

[cme]

Loved it.  When a debate is in sued best to take your leave. 

[Tortuga]

Interesting. Never heard of it.

Belief perseverance - Wikipedia

[LeolaRootStew]

Ok, the slave teeth made the blood drain from my face.

[computerwiz]

6 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Ok, the slave teeth made the blood drain from my face.

 

Yeah, it's crazy to think something like that actually happened back then.  Like wow!  👀

 

3 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Interesting. Never heard of it.

Belief perseverance - Wikipedia

 

Yep, there ya go!  It's nice to know it's a "thing".  Helps explain so many situations...

Edited June 12 by computerwiz

[LeolaRootStew]

4 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

 

Yeah, it's crazy to think something like that actually happened back then.  Like wow!  👀

 

I'm afraid to look up the sources and learn how they procured the teeth. Guess I'm hoping for corpse theft??

 

[computerwiz]

11 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I'm afraid to look up the sources and learn how they procured the teeth. Guess I'm hoping for corpse theft??

 

 

Looking at the article, unfortunately it doesn't sound like that. Sounds like back then you could sell your teeth for some money... 😬

Edited June 12 by computerwiz

[LeolaRootStew]

1 minute ago, computerwiz said:

 

Looking at the article, unfortunately it doesn't sound like that. Sounds like back then you could sell your teeth for some money... 😬

[ReadYourBible]

I read an article in psychology today which stated that the more we debated about a thing, the more likely we were to become deeply stuck in one set of thinking/beliefs. 

 

The way out is via effective questioning. Instead of trying to change someone's mind, you allow them to change it themselves.  

 

This is extremely effective, because people who were previously unreachable often respond like you've thrown a brick through a window. I recall the one time I was speaking to a man in the invite work, he'd gotten lost in the shuffle, his study conductor ended up in the hospital and he was dropped. He said to me after I found him and arranged a new person to come to him that he doubted he'd change his religion. 

 

My reply was, "I would be willing to bet Paul felt exactly the same way, wouldn't he?"

 

It was a very pointed question, that yielded powerful results. 

[Frances Bennett]

This is so interesting.

 

As I read through it I thought back to a particular time in my life where I was guilty of this.

 

Without having a name for it I guess I sensed I was doing it because I remember all of a sudden going "why am I so triggered?" and then calming down and making a concerted effort to re-evaluate the information in a rational way, not just re-buff and deny.

 

Fascinating ♥️ 

 

[cme]

I remember years ago out in service one of my calls was a Surgeon.  He was soooo mad at the JWs because his daughter was one and she did not believe in the blood transfusion.

 

I didn't know how to explain other alternatives because it gets a little dicey.  So, I came back with a blood brochure and let it explain it to him.  Then I came back the following week and brought another brochure.  He was a widower and the only grandchild he had was 5 years old living in Florida with his daughter (child's mom).  He had never met his grandson.

 

Needless to say, he came to the meeting on his own without an invitation sat through the talk and watchtower study, sort me out and said thank you for the information and that he was leaving to Florida to meet his grandson and live out there.  He was convinced about the blood issue. 

 

I imagine he became a witness.

[Mike047]

Well done, Carmen, for sticking with it, both back then and now.

[Pabo]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:57 AM, computerwiz said:

Yeah, it's crazy to think something like that actually happened back then.  Like wow!  👀

 

Actually I would not hesitate of thinking that his false teeth were made from other people's teeth, slaves or otherwise. It was just that era of time where they didn't have the methods of producing hard wearing composites that we have today. 

 

Just to think it wasn't too far back in time that dentists used lead, silver, gold and other soft metals filling in cavities in your teeth too, where they would have had to melt them at a high temperature to drop them into the hole in your tooth.

[Pjdriver]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:51 PM, LeolaRootStew said:

Ok, the slave teeth made the blood drain from my face.

Human teeth use as dentures was a thing back then for the wealthy.  

Some people would sell their teeth. Doesn’t sound too smart. GW paid his slaves,  but I think it’s likely they felt they didn’t have much choice.  

That was the mindset back in the day. It wasn’t limited to the U.S.  It’s been a part of human history for thousands of years involving peoples across many different races and backgrounds.  

[Hope]

I'm generally always ready to hear something new. I know I don't know everything and have been wrong more than right.

 

All the information posted above pretty much generated a, "oh, that's interesting" response from me.

[Witness1970]

In the past I have quoted people that I thought knew what they were talking about.  Later on, I found out just how stupid I was.  (What I had quoted was completely illogical!  That's why I said I was stupid.  Not that quoting other people is always stupid, but this quote was way off the mark.)  I try very hard to have correct information and I am willing to consider other opinions (without being gullible, hopefully).

[cme]

That's ok brother Randall.  We all do stupid things.  However, lesson learned, don't dwell on it, don't think on it, may humility be a lesson learned and, move on.

 

We are imperfect and, that is why we ALL do stupid things.   Welcome to reality.  Imperfection.

[1MKnight]

im currenty having a study with a staunch Trinitarian, weve agreed not to discuss the Trinity dogma for some time. Rather, what i’m doing is setting aside some time at the end of each session for  “other topics.” Really what were going over are basic building blocks of Biblical understanding from the Hebrew and Christian worldview. Why Jehovah gave the edenic promise instead of starting over, why we need a messiah, what the Bible and jews believed about messiah, how God acts through his chosen kings and other agents, etc. Along the way, ive been very careful to teach so as to help him draw the right conclusions himself. The idea being that by the end if our side discussions, well start putting the pieces together - conclusions he came to - and he can hopefully discern that the Trinity is unbiblical. But it hinges on not engaging with debate, and not attacking core beliefs. Rather, teaching fundamentals that he finds interesting, and letting the conclusions draw themselves.  

[StarHope]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:42 AM, ReadYourBible said:

The way out is via effective questioning. Instead of trying to change someone's mind, you allow them to change it themselves.

That is really interesting. If you happen to know that article, let me know.

Kind of reminds me how important it is to reach the core of a person, their heart ❤️ 

[ReadYourBible]

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201983449  -- so straight from our library

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-should-we-stop-using-data-change-peoples-minds-use-dan-ariely-k1g5f/ (secular source, Linked In, some discussion of Israel's involvement in Gaza.) 

 

Please note while the article does discuss Israel's involvement in Gaza, the main thrust of the article is about questions leading to different answers, opinions and outcomes.

[StarHope]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/opinion/change-someones-mind.html - Interesting piece about reasoning with people. Quoted from article: “Psychologists find that when we listen carefully and call attention to the nuances in people’s own thinking, they become less extreme and more open in their views.”

Edited November 23 by StarHope