2025 GB Update #5 - Putting to rest issues on “Higher” Education

[Buckeye]

15 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

Not a single publication or video said that you can't accept scholarship. 

 

Even the elder's manual doesn't say that. 

 

It simply says that the motive has to be examined to be sure that their spirituality is examplary

So if the brothers examined someone’s motives they can come to two conclusions correct? What if the brother said no? Then what would happen?

Edited Friday at 05:52 PM by trottigy

[Dages]

Update 6 to explain how updates work?

 

That could be a good idea. Or a talk during the AM about this. 

 

[Buckeye]

And I’m sorry to sound so negative, but it’s infuriating being told university and beards and clinking glasses was always ok and it’s my elders who were over zealous.  I’m sure in a few years people will tell me birthday parties were always ok and say it was just my elders who were adding rules. It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

[trottigy]

15 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

So if the brothers examined someone’s motives they can come to two conclusions correct? What if the brother said no? Then what would happen?

 

As is always the case, if the body of elders feels a brother is not exemplary, then he either won't be appointed or if appointed will be removed. 

 

This is a decision that is left up to each individual body of elders in cooperation with their Circuit Overseer. 

 

 

[Landon1285]

4 hours ago, DakDak said:

So I LOVED this update! There were so many good points and I think it is a bigger change and more impactful on the lives of so many of Jehovah’s people more than we realized. I personally chose to go to Bethel instead of pursuing even a little bit of additional schooling in a Trade. Although I certainly don’t regret the choice to go to Bethel, I have always regretted not pursuing some additional education. And I’m VERY GLAD about this update because I’ve been encouraging my kids to try and get some additional education. 
 

Two points in particular stood out to me.

 

1) At the 5:19 mark, Splane said: “No Christian - including the elders - should judge a fellow Christian’s personal decision on this matter”.

 

2) At the 16:37 Splane says: “Deciding whether or not to pursue additional education is a personal matter”. 
 

This is huge! And an awesome clarification! I get that culture is different. But putting culture aside, Jehovah’s organization did strongly discourage higher education in the past. And pursuing higher education has affected the privileges of service for some. 
 

A few years ago, a brother who was a SKE graduate and a sub-co sent to California, USA called me and asked for my thoughts on a recommendation for a young 25 year old brother as an elder. The young brother was attending university and pursuing a career as an engineer. The sub-co told the local elders that the young brother doesn’t qualify to serve as an elder at such a young age because he is not setting an example worthy of imitation because he is pursuing higher education. He quoted the w05 10/1 p. 27 par. 6 which states: “The educational system varies from country to country. In the United States, for example, public schools offer 12 years of basic education. Thereafter, students may choose to attend university or college for four or more years, leading to a bachelor’s degree or to postgraduate studies for careers in medicine, law, engineering, and so forth. Such university education is what is meant when the term ‘higher education’ is used in this article.” The article discouraged higher education and the sub-co didn’t recommend the young brother because he wasn’t a good example in following the organizations direction. The local elders pushed back and the matter escalated. However, the circuit overseer and branch office sided with the sub-co and the young brothers recommendation was not pushed through. 
 

Also, here is the current direction to elders in the shepherd book under things that may call an appointed brothers qualifications into question: 

 

 

4 hours ago, DakDak said:

It was never an automatic deletion if a brother or a member of his household pursued higher education. But it very much was strongly discouraged and pursuing higher education could have lead to a brother’s deletion from an appointed position in the organization. Though I’ve never known someone to be deleted because they allowed their children to pursue a 2 year technical degree, I do personally know some who were deleted because they allowed their children to pursue a 4 year college degree of at least Bachelor level. 
 

So it is true that privileged of service have been withheld from brothers, and some brothers have been deleted, because they or members of their household pursued higher education. And this was at the direction of the organization at the time. So I do wonder if us elders are going to get a letter with additional instructions about this matter. Such as how to help those who lost privileges of service in the past because of pursuing higher education.
 

So I think this clarification (and Splane did use that word in the update) is definitely and great thing and has been very much needed and am so glad Jehovah lead the brothers taking the lead to do this. Truly evidence Jehovah’s direction.

I think this pre 2005 article was the most balanced in terms of education:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992804

 

One of my favorite paragraphs:

 

*** w92 11/1 p. 18 par. 12 Education With a Purpose ***

12 A balanced view of education can help. For many young people of the world, education is a status symbol, something to help them climb the social ladder, the key to a prosperous, materialistic life-style. For others, schooling is a chore to be dispensed with as quickly as possible. Neither of these views is appropriate for true Christians. What, then, might be termed “a balanced view”? Christians should regard education as a means to an end. In these last days, their purpose is to serve Jehovah as much and as effectively as possible. If, in the country where they live, minimal or even high school education will only allow them to find jobs providing insufficient income to support themselves as pioneers, then supplementary education or training might be considered. This would be with the specific goal of full-time service.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1992804&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=18

 

The slave is trying to teach us to be balanced while preserving the unity in the Christian congregation.

Edited Friday at 06:03 PM by trottigy

[Michał]

Im happy about this update be ease u could see from this forum that different views were promoted in different congregations. 
 

my example from 21 years ago:

- I went to university to get Bachelors Degree because I wanted to seek Kingfdom first and needed a decent job

- I studied 30 minutes from home so I lived with my parents

- it was private school but my parents didn’t pay a lot

- I tried (hit and miss to this day) balance my time

- I avoided worldly association despite numerous invitations 

 

I guess I applied all of principles from today’s update. But it isn’t because I was so smart or wise - it was because I consulted with mature Christians and studied this subject in our publications. 
 

As a side note, I became a MS during that time. Additionally, our CO gave a favorably example of a pioneer sister getting BA in a field that gave her a lot of flexibility with finding a job, however he gave advice another pioneering sister that if she can’t accommodate studying at uni and pioneering she had to resign from something. She did (resign from studying to continue pioneering of course 😁). 
 

Now, if I lived in the US, it all might be much more difficult because from what I hear additional education is much more pricey and more engaging socially-wise. 

[Jwanon]

18 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

So if the brothers examined someone’s motives they can come to two conclusions correct? What if the brother said no? Then what would happen?

 

I don't understand the question 

 

2 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

it’s my elders who were over zealous

 

All you can do now is forgive, just as Jehovah also forgives our mistakes

Edited Friday at 05:59 PM by Jwanon

[Buckeye]

Just now, Jwanon said:

 

I don't understand the question 

Don’t worry I’m sorry I even said anything.  

[trottigy]

Just now, Buckeye said:

And I’m sorry to sound so negative, but it’s infuriating being told university and beards and clinking glasses was always ok and it’s my elders who were over zealous.  I’m sure in a few years people will tell me birthday parties were always ok and say it was just my elders who were adding rules. It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

 

I'm sorry you're feeling dismissed.

 

In United States it was NOT okay to wear a beard until just recently. The fact that we had to have a governing body update stating that it is okay should be evidence enough to show that it wasn't previously. As for higher education, that has always been a matter of whether the local body of elders feels a brother is exemplary or not. In some areas it was okay and in some it wasn't. 

 

When I was much younger, going to college of any type was very much frowned upon. I had a good friend who went on to become a veterinarian and that requires college. He was not allowed to auxiliary pioneer or pioneer. There was not any questions asked of him other than - are you going?

 

It's been different for the last decade though. Now, at least some questions would be asked to see if you're maintaining a regular spiritual routine and that your schooling isn't affecting that. But, again, each body has to make its own decision based on local culture.

[lord21]

28 minutes ago, TheKid23 said:

To be fair, we are not under that Law anymore.

 

V3 tells us we “should keep my sabbaths” That isn’t a requirement of Jehovah anymore… 

 

 

in that same chapter Jehovah also says “you must not wear a garment made with two sorts of thread mixed together” (19:19). How many of the clothes do you wear only have 1 material in? 
 

 V27 it tells us “You must not shave the hair on the side of your head or disfigure the edges of your beard.” do men not trim their beards or their sideburns? 
 

There’s more examples through Leviticus, but you can’t just take 1 verse out of context and say it’s forbidden by Jehovah when other things in that chapter are acceptable….

 

 

Tattooing is directly related to the use of blood. This is a very dangerous procedure. The one who does the tattoo can become infected with blood diseases. But even if he does not get infected, after a while the person will not want to have this tattoo, because the mind and thoughts change with age. And the removal of the tattoo is also associated with the use of blood.

[Israel]

I am thankful to Jehovah for this update. I started a 5 year college course in food engineering in March, and I recieved a lot of negative comments from some of the brothers. Though I understand their position and their advice wasn't meant to be judgamental, I have a different background to the average Witness. I do not have any family support, would be completely alone in life if it weren't for the Brothers, have lived in extreme poverty and rent a small apartment and am autistic and thus struggle to live with other people. And I want to have a family --- meet a wife in the truth and have children. This means that I have to get a college education, because im my country it is almost impossible to earn more than minimum wage without a college degree. Additionally, I am working and studying, so I devote almost 0 time to social life and college, and do not live at campus. Therefore, I face very little spiritual danger at college. Besides, just like brother Splane expresses in the update, I am thoroughly convinced of the inspiration of the Bible. Future will tell if my decision was correct, but I absolutely did not ignore Jehovah in making it. Hopefully, with this update the Brothers will realize this.

Edited Friday at 06:02 PM by Israel

[Michał]

2 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

And I’m sorry to sound so negative, but it’s infuriating being told university and beards and clinking glasses was always ok and it’s my elders who were over zealous.  I’m sure in a few years people will tell me birthday parties were always ok and say it was just my elders who were adding rules. It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

Clinking was never okay before, you’re right. Beards were controversial in my congregation but not because of the Bible but the society used to look down on people with them. University - look at my previous post (I guess it depended where you lived).

[Landon1285]

4 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

And I’m sorry to sound so negative, but it’s infuriating being told university and beards and clinking glasses was always ok and it’s my elders who were over zealous.  I’m sure in a few years people will tell me birthday parties were always ok and say it was just my elders who were adding rules. It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

True but your faith will be rewarded. And there will be a perfect wage for each of us in accordance to Jehovah's will. 

 

Matthew 7:9-11:

"Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone?  10 Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he?  11 Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!"

[OW90]

Wow...i don't know how to feel about this update. I guess, great for the young people of today. Now they can make informed choices about higher education and future employment without undue scrutiny and reprimand. At the end of the day, you're either gonna serve Jehovah or not. Any environment can take you out of the truth if you allow it. Whether its Harvard or Burger King.

 

This would have been great for me to hear 20 years ago when i was a young honor student from a poor family. But it's too late now. All that sacrifice and struggle just to hear its okay now... I don't know what to say. 

[trottigy]

7 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

 

All you can do now is forgive, just as Jehovah also forgives our mistakes

 

Jehovah gives us such a great example to follow, eh. 

 

 

 

[trottigy]

Just now, OW90 said:

Wow...i don't know how to feel about this update. I guess, great for the young people of today. Now they can make informed choices about higher education and future employment without undue scrutiny and reprimand. At the end of the day, you're either gonna serve Jehovah or not. Any environment can take you out of the truth if you allow it. Whether its Harvard or Burger King.

 

This would have been great for me to hear 20 years ago when i was a young honor student from a poor family. But it's too late now. All that sacrifice and struggle just to hear its okay now... I don't know what to say. 

 

I would say - I am happy for the sacrifice I gave my God! I am also happy for the others that don't have to.

[johnnyjw01]

14 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

And I’m sorry to sound so negative, but it’s infuriating being told university and beards and clinking glasses was always ok and it’s my elders who were over zealous.  I’m sure in a few years people will tell me birthday parties were always ok and say it was just my elders who were adding rules. It was hard to be different in school and realizing it was all just my elders making up rules is very very hard to hear for me. And the way people dismiss it is frustrating. 

Dear brother,

I don’t understand why you are comparing these three things. In my opinion, they have developed in very different ways.

As for higher education, it has always been true that it was not an obstacle to an appointment: in fact, someone could still be considered exemplary (as the elders’ book also confirms).

The issue of the beard, however, was different: it did not automatically make someone non-exemplary, but it was mostly frowned upon by the brothers themselves. A sort of unwritten internal rule had developed, not so much from the Governing Body, but rather from the general opinion. For example, a 2016 (i think) magazine stated that in some places a beard was well accepted.

As for toasts, it has always been clear that we are not obsessed with the origin of certain customs. However, since our publications mentioned it, many preferred to avoid it, even if they were convinced that it no longer carried any religious meaning…

[Buckeye]

16 minutes ago, trottigy said:

 

I'm sorry you're feeling dismissed.

 

In United States it was NOT okay to wear a beard until just recently. The fact that we had to have a governing body update stating that it is okay should be evidence enough to show that it wasn't previously. As for higher education, that has always been a matter of whether the local body of elders feels a brother is exemplary or not. In some areas it was okay and in some it wasn't. 

 

When I was much younger, going to college of any type was very much frowned upon. I had a good friend who went on to become a veterinarian and that requires college. He was not allowed to auxiliary pioneer or pioneer. There was not any questions asked of him other than - are you going?

 

It's been different for the last decade though. Now, at least some questions would be asked to see if you're maintaining a regular spiritual routine and that your schooling isn't affecting that. But, again, each body has to make its own decision based on local culture.

Thanks for the words. It is hard for me to accept that these brothers can apparently make up so many rules like beards and school, when there was never anything wrong with them.  Not going to school limits me every day now and it will for the rest of my time on earth.  Let me know if you all are celebrating birthdays and allowed to have long hair on a guy so i can too.  My elders don’t allow those things either but now i don’t know what’s an unwritten rule and what’s frowned upon and what’s an actual rule.

Edited Friday at 06:18 PM by Buckeye

[dannysharedstuff]

5 hours ago, dannysharedstuff said:

For those of us who are wondering "oh, I wish I had the opportunity to attend university, etc...", I thought about one question we can make ourselves: If I, indeed, attended higher education in the past, am I sure that I would still be here in the organization? Doing what I am doing now? Would I became spiritually stronger or weaker?"

 

I'm not judging those who made the decision in the past, but we should not focus on "oh, I wish I had that" or things like that. Focus on the present, not in the past.

 

Myself, I do not have one single regret about not attending higher education, and started working part-time and pioneering. 

 

Just think about that.

 

6 minutes ago, OW90 said:

Wow...i don't know how to feel about this update. I guess, great for the young people of today. Now they can make informed choices about higher education and future employment without undue scrutiny and reprimand. At the end of the day, you're either gonna serve Jehovah or not. Any environment can take you out of the truth if you allow it. Whether its Harvard or Burger King.

 

This would have been great for me to hear 20 years ago when i was a young honor student from a poor family. But it's too late now. All that sacrifice and struggle just to hear its okay now... I don't know what to say. 

 

Just read my comment above.. maybe it will help you 😉 I also grew up in a poor family, and I was offered a scholarship and every expenses paid. Still, I didn't went to the university. I do not regret that decision at all. 😉

[OW90]

7 minutes ago, trottigy said:

 

I would say - I am happy for the sacrifice I gave my God! I am also happy for the others that don't have to.

Too soon for that bro. This is a difficult subject for me. 

[Buckeye]

8 minutes ago, OW90 said:

Wow...i don't know how to feel about this update. I guess, great for the young people of today. Now they can make informed choices about higher education and future employment without undue scrutiny and reprimand. At the end of the day, you're either gonna serve Jehovah or not. Any environment can take you out of the truth if you allow it. Whether its Harvard or Burger King.

 

This would have been great for me to hear 20 years ago when i was a young honor student from a poor family. But it's too late now. All that sacrifice and struggle just to hear its okay now... I don't know what to say. 

Yep. And to make it worse,  reading the comments it seems that it was just our two halls that had this problem.  Beyond our two halls everyone had beards and a college education 

[trottigy]

11 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Thanks for the words. It is hard for me to accept that these brothers can apparently make up so many rules like beards and school, when there was never anything wrong with them.  Not going to school limits me every day now and it will for the rest of my time on earth.  Let me know if you all are celebrating birthdays and allowed to have long hair on a guy so i can too.  My elders don’t allow those things but apparently they’ve been overstepping for 45 years. Thanks for letting me vent and sorry to sound negative 

 

Hmm, it was never about "making up rules". It was always about being exemplary based on the local culture.

 

Culture changes over time and the GB is making adjustments as culture changes. The principles are all still the same.

 

As for long hair 1 Corinthians 11 still says "14 Does not nature itself teach you that long hair is a dishonor to a man, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her instead of a covering. "

 

And as for Birthdays, our site still says, Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Celebrate Birthdays? | FAQ NO!

Edited Friday at 06:24 PM by trottigy

[johnnyjw01]

8 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Thanks for the words. It is hard for me to accept that these brothers can apparently make up so many rules like beards and school, when there was never anything wrong with them.  Not going to school limits me every day now and it will for the rest of my time on earth.  Let me know if you all are celebrating birthdays and allowed to have long hair on a guy so i can too.  My elders don’t allow those things either but now i don’t know what’s an unwritten rule and what’s frowned upon and what’s an actual rule.

Actual rules are only in the Bible… where there isn’t a rule we have to reason on principles

Edited Friday at 06:22 PM by johnnyjw01

[Dark King]

Seek the Kingdom First 🥇 "Not Only"

1st.. 2nd 3rd.. 4th... 5th..6th... 201th..324th..

Jesus was very balance he did a lot of stuff that didn't have anything to do with the Kingdom. But he had Kingdom interest uppermost in his mind. We he had opportunity came up to spread Kingdom interest he did but he allowed it to form naturally. 

 

If I had a kid or kids with extremely high IQs, I would tell my wife we're moving closer to Harvard, Yale or Princeton so our kid's can come home every night after school 🎒.

 

[dannysharedstuff]

About some decisions and regarding beards, for exemple, around 10 years ago I've heard a young brother (around 21 YO) say: "If having a beard will make it more difficult for me to have a privilege in an Circuit Assembly, I will simply not wear a beard. End of story"

 

And this, until this day, makes sense to me, not only regarding this, but other personal "styling" and dressing decisions. Phil. 2:4