Scriptural counsel

[Single_grainofsand]

Good evening friends. I have appreciated many of your fine experiences and it has strengthened my faith numerous accounts!

 

A thought was brought up from one of our elders within the congregation I'm a part of about the dangers of using a site the Organization doesn't promote to share with the congregation. I would appreciate any scriptural references and/or personal experiences that some may have similarly faced dealing with this topic.

 

I was loving warned that the reason was that there is no way to root out apostasy on such sites. Please feel free to share your thoughts. Your comments are for my personal benefit, not to cause disunity or to stumble. Using decerment I would like to make a decision. 

 

Your brother, 

 

Tyler

[Lance]

Which part is that ..? I looked for the next few months all I noticed.. I may have missed something.

Sept 18

Help Your Children to Use Electronic Devices Wisely

Edited yesterday at 12:16 AM by Lance

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Single_grainofsand said:

A thought was brought up from one of our elders within the congregation I'm a part of about the dangers of using a site the Organization doesn't promote to share with the congregation. 

 

Which site would that be. Facebook? Instagram? YouTube? Reddit? CNN? PBS? 

 

Besides jw.org, what websites does the Organization promote? 

Edited yesterday at 01:39 AM by Shawnster

[Qapla]

We have been given warnings about how dangerous it can be driving on the roads with all the road rage however, does that mean we should all quit driving?

 

We have been given warnings about associating with non-witnesses on the job - does that mean we should avoid talking to those we work with?

 

We have been cautioned about undue influence from non-witness relatives - does that mean we should cut off all association with our relatives?

 

Or, has the direction been to use caution while still driving, talking to our workmates and our relatives? Seems to me we have been told to use caution while using the Internet not that we shouldn't use it at all.

Edited 20 hours ago by Qapla

[Jwanon]

11 hours ago, Single_grainofsand said:

there is no way to root out apostasy on such sites

 

0.0125% is a very small number in the context of 9 billion internet users. I chose to not be paranoid about every interaction I have on the web

[TheKid23]

17 hours ago, Single_grainofsand said:

no way to root out apostasy

We had “quiet apostates” in our circuit and Cong for months (if not more) some were even appointed men who stayed in the organisation just to get “dirt” to spread to other apostates. 
 

my point is we can never be completely sure about our in person association, never mind our online association. Of course we take precautions to protect ourselves but we can never guarantee anything. 

[Miss Bea]

We all have minds trained by the FDS, i hope. And we have been cautioned to, “watch out for the voice of strangers”. That we do. Um, i have found ones with, “perfectly healthy minds”, can come out with the most outlandish thoughts. Not a problem. They are entitled to such.

I think when we start adjusting our thinking to such, we may be in trouble. 
When you start seening quirky thinking, in a spiritual sense, on any site, run for the hills.

In the meantime, what i do, in good conscious, with my discretionary time, um, is my business. 
I love this site. It is moderated by some pretty special people who have set aside a part of their precious time to make sure this is safe for us all. Spiritually. I sort of think  ones, with whom we may share our being here, and even participating, may not understand how much it means to us. We are not associating with just faceless individuals. We are associating with brothers and sisters, whom we have come to love. That may be hard for some to understand, for some. Not me!
Even in the congregation, we have been encouraged to watch our association. We do that here. We may not, “click”, with something posted. We move on. When we, , “click”, we dive in, and enjoy the association. 
As pointed out, we need to be cautious, with any site. That we are. 
I’m pretty generic to others when I mention this site. If I mention it. I referrer to it as a, “social site that is just brothers and sisters”, and move on. 
You follow your conscious, my dear brother. I know I am, and I wish you well. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Miss Bea
Typos!

[rocket]

Bottom line, The Branch does not promote any social media  internet site and warns of the spiritual danger of frequenting such sites.  However they do not make rules and it is a personal decision to be a member or not.  I have personally been raked over the coals for being a member of Jwtalk by my elders but they also said it was a personal decision.  If one is aware of the dangers it can be an encouraging place to visit.  In one of the Cong. I was in, our Book Study conductor was Apostate for years before he walked away with his family from the Truth.  On JWTalk as soon as Apostates are identified as such they are banned or made a Former Member without delay.  We do not spend years, days or even hours waiting to keep the site clean.  This also goes for trouble makers who only want to argue and cause disunity.  If one is not here to encourage others or to get help and support maybe they are in the wrong place.  That said, like in any Cong. on earth you will find all of the friends at different levels of spiritual maturity.  Thus on occasion you will come across off the wall comments and wonder if they are really JW's or not.  Look for the positive and you will be encouraged, look for the negative and you will be discouraged.  Have you ever been in a car group where one person is always negative, talking continually about their ills and troubles.  It takes a brave person to turn the negative into a positive, be that person. 

[Jwanon]

29 minutes ago, TheKid23 said:

We had “quiet apostates” in our circuit and Cong for months (if not more) some were even appointed men who stayed in the organisation just to get “dirt” to spread to other apostates. 
 

my point is we can never be completely sure about our in person association, never mind our online association. Of course we take precautions to protect ourselves but we can never guarantee anything. 

 

 The sins of some men are publicly known, leading directly to judgment, but those of other men become evident later (1 Timothy 4:25)

[jdcarlson]

1 hour ago, rocket said:

I have personally been raked over the coals for being a member of Jwtalk by my elders but they also said it was a personal decision. 

I have also had that experience.  But it was my 56 year old son who jumped all over me.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments that we need to be "on the watch" about those with whom we associate.

 

I have been disappointed to read some of the "off the wall" thoughts that have been posted here. But, that does not mean I will not come here to see what dear ones are saying.

 

Being circumspect in our comments is always good advice. 

 

Also, we need to be a source of encouragement.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

[Shawnster]

40 minutes ago, jdcarlson said:

I have been disappointed to read some of the "off the wall" thoughts that have been posted here. But, that does not mean I will not come here to see what dear ones are saying.

 

I'm gonna hazard a guess we all have that one brother/sister in our congregation that is like this in real life. 

 

Off the wall comments are not restricted to online 

[dljbsp]

37 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

I'm gonna hazard a guess we all have that one brother/sister in our congregation that is like this in real life. 

 

Off the wall comments are not restricted to online 

I sometimes wonder if what I share—whether here or at the meetings—comes across as off-the-wall. At the meeting . . .A brother will ask a question, I’ll get called on, I give my answer, and then—no “thank you,” no nod, just right on to the next person. Afterward I’ll ask my wife, “Did I say something wrong? Did I even get it right?” Of course, she’s always supportive.

 

I remember once debating whether a point in a student talk was appropriate. I ran it by a brother I worked with. He just asked, “What’s the worst that could happen?” I thought about it and said, “Well, I might get loving counsel.” Then after a pause, I added, “And I can handle that.”

Edited 13 hours ago by dljbsp

[Timl1980]

21 hours ago, Single_grainofsand said:

Good evening friends. I have appreciated many of your fine experiences and it has strengthened my faith numerous accounts!

 

A thought was brought up from one of our elders within the congregation I'm a part of about the dangers of using a site the Organization doesn't promote to share with the congregation. I would appreciate any scriptural references and/or personal experiences that some may have similarly faced dealing with this topic.

 

I was loving warned that the reason was that there is no way to root out apostasy on such sites. Please feel free to share your thoughts. Your comments are for my personal benefit, not to cause disunity or to stumble. Using decerment I would like to make a decision. 

 

Your brother, 

 

Tyler

 

Good afternoon, Tyler.

 

Here is all I will add to my brothers and sisters who have posted so far: 

 

Your elders are correct...you must be careful.

 

Have you done your due diligence in regards to this site to see if everything posted on it meets Jehovah's standards? (Or if people have called others on the carpet when it doesn't?)

 

If you haven't...you will never truly find out based simply on another persons "word". Do some research on here...see if the ultimate answer to a problem or question lines up with what the slave says...and then let US know.

 

Until then...you are simply relying on another person's word...on THEIR thoughts and feelings on a matter.

 

Is that what a TRUE Christian does? Or do you form your own spiritual opinion based on what the Bible, the faithful slave...and your own Bible based trained conscience on a particular matter actually says?

 

This doesn't boil down to your elders...it boils down to you...period...you and your relationship with Jehovah.

 

So now that this is clear...let me ask YOU: How do YOU feel about JWTALK?

[carlos]

Tyler, we’re well aware of the warnings from the Slave, and we do our best to follow them carefully. For example, we recently had this part at the meeting that included a very relevant video: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202023178

 

One danger our publications mention is that discussions can easily slip into criticism or negativity. That’s very true. So the staff works hard to steer conversations back on track when they start heading in the wrong direction, or to stop them entirely if members won’t cooperate.

 

Another danger is apostates. To greatly reduce that risk, new members here have limited access, and all of their posts are reviewed by a moderator before becoming public. We also have other measures in place to detect such individuals. As a result, apostates are extremely rare here, and when they do appear, they’re removed before members ever see their posts. So, I’d say this is quite a safe and clean place.

 

In any case, when some spoke negatively about Jesus, he replied that “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” You can apply that same principle here: take a look at the forums, see the kinds of conversations we’re having, and decide for yourself whether this place helps or harms your spirituality. As brother Splane says in the video, when you visit this place, how does it make you feel? Encouraged or discouraged? 

[Timl1980]

23 minutes ago, carlos said:

As brother Splane says in the video, when you visit this place, how does it make you feel? Encouraged or discouraged? 

 

This is the harsh reality...and yes...I said "harsh".

 

It's not about what we as brothers and sisters are "trying" to do here...it literally boils down to: How does it make YOU feel??

 

Only YOU can answer that Tyler.

 

We can't.

 

We are here...we will be here.

 

But we can't DECIDE for you whether this site is appropriate or not.

 

Let Jehovah do that...and stay or go as you wish.

 

We stay...because all of us NEED the encouragement and love and reassurance we find here...but not everyone feels that way.

 

There is negativity here...don't let anyone tell you different.

 

But to be fair...there is negativity in our congregations sometimes as well. 

 

How does this site make TYLER feel?

 

We can only wait and see.

[dljbsp]

22 hours ago, Single_grainofsand said:

Tyler

Brother, I see a difference between sites like Amazon or Google, which we use for practical things, and a place like JWTalk. We don’t come here for spiritual food — Jehovah’s organization already provides that through JW.org and the publications. But we can come here for wholesome association and encouragement, as long as we use discernment and remember where our true spiritual guidance comes from.

[just1-4all]

4 hours ago, TheKid23 said:

We had “quiet apostates” in our circuit and Cong for months (if not more) some were even appointed men who stayed in the organisation just to get “dirt” to spread to other apostates. 
 

my point is we can never be completely sure about our in person association, never mind our online association. Of course we take precautions to protect ourselves but we can never guarantee anything. 

Regarding online association of people never met in-person and where can't have verification by being well-spoken of by others you trust, then yes, it's very wise to be careful.

 

Also such caution would also apply to any relatively new "in-person" person who present themselves as a brother or sister with whom you or others, are not family. But even then, they would need an introductory letter from their previous congregation if they were going to start regularly associating with a new congregation .. wouldn't they?

 

So, I don't think we need be too paranoid of apostates 'in the ranks' when someone is recommended by a letter from a previous congregation, and/or baptized for quite some time (and not necessarily decades) and spoken well of by people you know well and trust deeply, etc.

 

I think as time goes on, it's the newly found in the field—unfortunately—that will call for caution by the elders as protectors of the flock, to make sure they are the real deal.

[just1-4all]

1 hour ago, dljbsp said:

Brother, I see a difference between sites like Amazon or Google, which we use for practical things, and a place like JWTalk. We don’t come here for spiritual food — Jehovah’s organization already provides that through JW.org and the publications. But we can come here for wholesome association and encouragement, as long as we use discernment and remember where our true spiritual guidance comes from.

That's a great analogy if you mean reading reviews of products purchased on Amazon. So true! The wise do not put faith in every word ... especially from any source outside the congregation or what we find on JW.org (Proverbs 14:15)

[Single_grainofsand]

2 hours ago, Timl1980 said:

 

Good afternoon, Tyler.

 

Here is all I will add to my brothers and sisters who have posted so far: 

 

Your elders are correct...you must be careful.

 

Have you done your due diligence in regards to this site to see if everything posted on it meets Jehovah's standards? (Or if people have called others on the carpet when it doesn't?)

 

If you haven't...you will never truly find out based simply on another persons "word". Do some research on here...see if the ultimate answer to a problem or question lines up with what the slave says...and then let US know.

 

Until then...you are simply relying on another person's word...on THEIR thoughts and feelings on a matter.

 

Is that what a TRUE Christian does? Or do you form your own spiritual opinion based on what the Bible, the faithful slave...and your own Bible based trained conscience on a particular matter actually says?

 

This doesn't boil down to your elders...it boils down to you...period...you and your relationship with Jehovah.

 

So now that this is clear...let me ask YOU: How do YOU feel about JWTALK?

 

Based on my reasoning of the scriptures and my conscience on the matter, I personally see no fault in using JWtalk for its intended purpose-encouragement and a way to meet fellow brothers and sisters in faith.

 

Admittedly I am relatively new to this site so experience limits me, I personally haven't seen any topics in which Jehovah’s holy name is slandered. I have seen what anxieties this current system causes some to feel. I also winess fellow workers sharing experiences, trials, and offering loving support- the distinguishing mark of true Christians.

 

Gods voice, or his word is what directs our step. Our literature and publications are good spiritual food, though the bible is our primary solid food. Many here acknowledge that and wonderfully reference the scriptures.

 

My loyalty is to Jehovah and to my brothers and sisters. I care for their concerns. To not stumble those in the congregation I will follow the direction to only share material directly from JW.org to our congregation group chat but choose to remain here as long as this system lasts. 

 

Some scriptures on this topic that come to mind:

1 Corinthians 8:12

When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ.

 

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness

 

John 13:35

By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

 

Romans 14:21

It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.

 

Ephesians 4:13

until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.

[TheKid23]

11 hours ago, just1-4all said:

Regarding online association of people never met in-person and where can't have verification by being well-spoken of by others you trust, then yes, it's very wise to be careful.

 

Also such caution would also apply to any relatively new "in-person" person who present themselves as a brother or sister with whom you or others, are not family. But even then, they would need an introductory letter from their previous congregation if they were going to start regularly associating with a new congregation .. wouldn't they?

 

So, I don't think we need be too paranoid of apostates 'in the ranks' when someone is recommended by a letter from a previous congregation, and/or baptized for quite some time (and not necessarily decades) and spoken well of by people you know well and trust deeply, etc.

 

I think as time goes on, it's the newly found in the field—unfortunately—that will call for caution by the elders as protectors of the flock, to make sure they are the real deal.

So in our circuit we had ones who became apostates white, to the rest of us, they appeared to be spiritual people. We had 2 Ministerial Servants in a neighbouring congregation who’d been subtly been turning people against the organisation and had been talking about things online. They called themselves PIMO- Physically In Mentally Out.
 

They tried ”recruiting” lots of teens and young adults in the circuit to do the same- including myself. Unfortunately some joined them and also left Jehovah. Those of us who stayed spoke out about what they were doing to the Elders and CO. Those 2 MS were both removed from the Cong pretty quickly but even years later things are still coming to light and people we thought were not involved were also ringleaders.
 

It can be difficult to tell sometimes- wolf in sheep’s clothing. But it’s a very rare situation 
 

Edited 1 hour ago by TheKid23