Breaking News - Venezuela under US rule

[Dustparticle]

 

 I think some need to cool off regarding the change in Venezuela.  Our focus should be on Daniel 2:44.

[Shawnster]

33 minutes ago, Jim Jam said:

Rejoicing is only warranted if the regime change favors our religion but not before

 

Of course, we do rejoice when Jehovah's people are treated favorably, but that is not in connection to one political system over another. 

 

The only regime change we should rejoice is when God's Kingdom destroys all of man's governments. 

 

We do not rejoice when any of man's government's replaces one another, even if that new government is favorable to God's people. To rejoice over such a change violates ones neutrality. 

 

 

[Shawnster]

15 minutes ago, Jim Jam said:

 

If we rejoice over the effect we rejoice over the cause

 

No, that doesn't track. 

 

Someone rejoices that their beloved relative is no longer suffering, but they do not rejoice that the person had to die for the suffering to end. 

 

Someone rejoices so-and-so has grown closer to Jehovah but they do not rejoice that the individual had to experience disfellowshipping in order to be properly motivated. 

 

To rejoice or be happy at the establishing of a human government is not being neutral. It's taking delight in that government 

 

rejoice

verb

re·joice ri-ˈjȯis 

rejoiced; rejoicing

Synonyms of rejoice

transitive verb

 

: to give joy to : gladden

intransitive verb

 

: to feel joy or great delight

Edited yesterday at 01:54 PM by Shawnster

[Barbllm]

I don't have access to Bluesky/X/Twitter, but Katie Miller, wife of the White House deputy chief of staff and national security adviser just posted an image of Greenland overlaid with the U.S. flag, captioned “SOON.” (mentioned on another news website, image found via GIS)

 

 

Did I miss something? Is Greenland now a threat to national security? 

 

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Jim Jam said:

 

If we rejoice over the effect we rejoice over the cause

 

No.

 

If you told someone you are so glad a government was toppled - you are not neutral. If you told someone you are glad the brothers are not being persecuted, that is neutral. Your joy is in your brother's well-being, not politics.

Edited 23 hours ago by LeolaRootStew

[Qapla]

29 minutes ago, Barbllm said:

Is Greenland now a threat to national security? 

 

While Greenland may not appear to be a threat to national security, it is considered to be part of the North American continent - it seems the current administration would like all of North America to be under US rule.

 

Canada and Mexico have not shown any desire to do this and have the might to fight back - places like Cuba may not fare as well.

[Barbllm]

8 minutes ago, Qapla said:

 

While Greenland may not appear to be a threat to national security, it is considered to be part of the North American continent - it seems the current administration would like all of North America to be under US rule.

 

Canada and Mexico have not shown any desire to do this and have the might to fight back - places like Cuba may not fare as well.

If the US invades Canada, do all citizens get free maple syrup?  (Asking for a hungry person)

[Shawnster]

30 minutes ago, Barbllm said:

If the US invades Canada, do all citizens get free maple syrup?  (Asking for a hungry person)

 

No, that would only be if Canada invades the US, eh. 

 

 

[Barbllm]

9 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

No, that would only be if Canada invades the US, eh. 

 

 

Cool. Between that and universal healthcare, I welcome our new Canadian overlords.

 

[carlos]

3 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

If you told someone you are so glad a government was toppled - you are not neutral. If you told someone you are glad the brothers are not being persecuted, that is neutral. Your joy is in your brother's well-being, not politics.

 

That's a very good point. It's interesting that next week's meeting quotes an article from 2016 which contains the following comments. Although written ten years ago, it could have been written this morning:

 

Quote

*** w16 April p. 29 par. 7 Maintain Your Neutrality in a Divided World ***
We obey God by never favoring any candidate or political party over another, regardless of whether they seem to support or oppose our interests. How might our neutrality be tested in this regard? Suppose that a popular uprising tries to oust an oppressive regime, one under which God’s people have also suffered. Although we would not march with the protesters, might we be with them in spirit? (Eph. 2:2) We must remain neutral not only in our words and actions but also in our heart.

 

We need to be careful with what we express and what we feel. Sometimes it's so difficult to stay neutral when we see big injustices. However, if we look at things from Jehovah's viewpoint, all political leaders are actually Satan's tools, and the only real solution for any problem is the Kingdom.

[Doug]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

 

Canada  might  fight back 

 

If the rules of engagement are Snowballs Only     

[Barbllm]

2 minutes ago, Doug said:

 

If the rules of engagement are Snowballs Only     

Snowplows at dawn, sir.

 

Have you seen the lake-effect snow in NY state? 

 

[Doug]

49 minutes ago, Barbllm said:

Snowplows at dawn, sir.

 

 

That's right!!!!   They could berm the US out.  Like my driveway when I get home  

[Shawnster]

 

 

In a desperate bid to revive his abysmal peacetime approval rating, the president of the United States (Alan Alda) agrees to a scheme proposed by corrupt cabinet member Stu Smiley (Kevin Pollak) and launches a top-secret propaganda campaign to vilify Canada. As U.S. citizens get caught up in a xenophobic hysteria, a group of residents of Niagara, N.Y., wielding machine guns, organize a vigilante invasion that could trigger a real war with America's gentle neighbor to the north.

[Ishaya]

6 hours ago, Brandon said:

Please don’t speak for witnesses in Venezuela unless you have some real quotes from them

 

I can remember at a time we had a donation done here in the forum to assist our brothers in Venezuela because of the hardships people are experiencing there.i even watched it on the news how things were extremely difficult in the country under Maduro's regime.

 

Maduro's faceoff with the US government and his alliance with Iran has resulted in stiff economic sanctions from the US which has made life very difficult for the Venezuelans.

I think I am quite familiar with what's going on there.

[Brandon]

6 hours ago, Jim Jam said:

 

>"The social and economic crisis in Venezuela continues. Access to food, water, fuel, and medicine is severely limited because of shortages and high prices

Notice our website does not blame a specific political leader. Also, we had a discussion about what led to Venezuela’s economic crisis years ago on this site with an actual Venezuelan brother. You may wish to read it to educate yourself. 
 

Here’s a quick summary: 

When Hugo Chávez died on March 5, 2013, Venezuela was not yet in full collapse, but the country was already fragile and heading toward crisis. The situation can be summed up as “stable on the surface, unstable underneath.”

 

 

Further I’d like to point out the so called “freakonomics” effects where any supposed good deed always causes some innocent suffering, for example my friends in Cuba were mentioning their electrical grid runs entirely on oil they buy from Venezuela. With the Trump now stealing it all, the little bit of electricity they had will now go to zero. Are we to cheer on violent overthrow of a government and ignoring the suffering to our brothers and sisters? Your attitude is very tone deaf here. 

[Ishaya]

8 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

That is not neutral.

 

Maybe it sounds that way to you,but I'm not taking any side.

 

Im simply happy for our brothers living there because there is a chance now that things may get better for them.i don't see anything wrong with that scripturally.

 

Think about this,how did the Israelites react when Jehovah humiliated pharaoh and freed them from Egypt? I'm very sure they were not sad or feeling pity for pharaoh and his cohorts.

How did they respond when Jehovah drowned pharaoh and his ruthless army in the sea.the account even records a special song of rejoicing they sang.

 

I don't support any human government but that doesn't mean I can't be happy when a bad government is ended whether by man's manouvres or Jehovah's intervention.

[LeolaRootStew]

1 hour ago, Ishaya said:

Maybe it sounds that way to you,but I'm not taking any side.

 

You skipped over about a dozen comments that agree with me, so it's not just my personal opinion. Cheering for the destruction of a Government that God directly destroys is obviously not violating neutrality. Picking sides when the whole chessboard belongs to Satan breaks neutrality.

[Pink Butterflies]

2 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

Cheering for the destruction of a Government that God directly destroys is obviously not violating neutrality. Picking sides when the whole chessboard belongs to Satan breaks neutrality.

I like how you phrased that. Personally I’m excited to see these governments destroyed. Then they’ll see the power of our mighty God Jehovah!

[Shawnster]

17 minutes ago, Pink Butterflies said:

I like how you phrased that. Personally I’m excited to see these governments destroyed. Then they’ll see the power of our mighty God Jehovah!

 

That's not what is happening in Venezuela, however.  To this point all governments that have been destroyed have been replaced by other human governments. 

 

We all look forward to when Jehovah takes decisive action at Armageddon. 

[SKnight]

If I can just charm in here:

Luke 6:27-30 admonish us to “love our enemies, and to pray for those persecuting us.” This ties in with our WT discussion today to pray for our brothers/sisters in prison., that their captors will: Be kinder, Allow our brothers/sisters to be themselves to worship Jehovah, and set a fine example for onlookers, and for our brothers and sisters to eventually be set free.

I don’t think Bro @Ishaya was saying he favors any Government in Venezuela. But the current one was so bad that it was not safe for our brothers to preach. It was dangerous for the sisters who could be captured and rapped and killed. Maduro was very corrupt, the people lack even basic needs and his wife wasn’t innocent neither.

So maybe the next government will allow our brothers and sisters to preach. The field is white for harvesting, and I see a more increase of ones coming to know Jehovah. But I don’t think he was favoring any worldly government. 🌎👑

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Ishaya said:

 

Maybe it sounds that way to you,but I'm not taking any side.

 

Im simply happy for our brothers living there because there is a chance now that things may get better for them.i don't see anything wrong with that scripturally.

 

Think about this,how did the Israelites react when Jehovah humiliated pharaoh and freed them from Egypt? I'm very sure they were not sad or feeling pity for pharaoh and his cohorts.

How did they respond when Jehovah drowned pharaoh and his ruthless army in the sea.the account even records a special song of rejoicing they sang.

 

I don't support any human government but that doesn't mean I can't be happy when a bad government is ended whether by man's manouvres or Jehovah's intervention.

 

 

*** w16 April p. 29 par. 7 Maintain Your Neutrality in a Divided World ***

7 We obey God by never favoring any candidate or political party over another, regardless of whether they seem to support or oppose our interests. How might our neutrality be tested in this regard? Suppose that a popular uprising tries to oust an oppressive regime, one under which God’s people have also suffered. Although we would not march with the protesters, might we be with them in spirit? (Eph. 2:2) We must remain neutral not only in our words and actions but also in our heart.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2016288&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=15

 

To rejoice about the change of government in Venezuela would be showing that we celebrate this change of government in our heart. 

 

Jehovah is not the one who overthrew the Venezuela ruler. This was one human ruler being replaced by another human ruler. All human rulers stand in opposition to Jehovah's Kingdom. We cannot rejoice because humans decided to change leaders. 

 

We are always happy and hopeful that the situation for our brothers and sisters improves. However, we hoped that would be the case no matter which human was ruling Venezuela. We don't rejoice over this change of leadership because they did not choose a leader Jehovah approves of. Besides, this could cause the situation for Witnesses in Venezuela to get worse, not better. How could we rejoice over this change in leadership when there is no guarantee it will improve life for the people there? 

[SKnight]

11 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

How could we rejoice over this change in leadership when there is no guarantee it will improve life for the people there? 

This is true worldwide! All Governments is under Satan control….., All of it! We will be watching to see if conditions improve for our brothers to preach the Good News according to Jesus. Because after all, Jehovah wants no one to be destroyed, but all to have everlasting life!

[carlos]

Just a couple comments, without any reference to the neutrality issue:

 

- Jehovah’s Witnesses are not being persecuted in Venezuela. They can still hold their meetings and participate in the ministry. The shortages of food, medicine, and basic goods affect the entire population, and of course our brothers and sisters are included in that hardship. But they are not banned, nor is the government targeting them.

 

- Nothing has really changed in Venezuela, and there’s no indication that anything will change in the near future. The U.S. army captured President Maduro and plans to try him on various charges, but his regime wasn’t overthrown. The vice president, Maduro’s second-in-command, will simply take his place, and the same system will continue with a different figurehead. Same people, same ideology, same corruption.

 

In the end, a dictator may be judged and possibly punished for his crimes, but that’s as far as it goes. It won’t have any real impact on Venezuelans in general or on Jehovah’s Witnesses in the country.

 

[carlos]

In 2003 we had an international convention here in Madrid, and we hosted two delegates from Venezuela in our home. At the time, Hugo Chávez, Maduro’s predecessor, had only been in power for a few months and many Venezuelans were excited because it seemed someone was finally paying attention to the poor. We were stunned when these sisters told us that quite a few brothers had been swept up in the general enthusiasm and were getting involved in politics. Back then, it felt almost impossible to imagine a Christian taking sides politically.

 

More than twenty years later we now see that trend everywhere. A few years ago, when a region in Spain attempted to declare independence, the branch had to send a very firm letter to all congregations because many were making comments that were far from neutral. Even here in the forums, we see some who passionately defend or criticize Trump or other political leaders. They think they’re being neutral, but in reality they’re being influenced by the news sources they follow.

 

This week’s Treasures talk is a good reminder of how vital it is to remain strictly neutral. Otherwise, when the real test arrives we could be caught off guard. All world leaders are simply puppets in Satan’s hands, so it makes little difference when one puppet is replaced by another.