US Supreme Court Says Gay Marriage Legal in All States

[Tortuga]

What is interesting is I was watching the news a little while ago and they were speaking to someone who helped with the case getting to the Supreme Court and this person said something interesting.  She said "our fight is just starting.  We now have to work on getting religious institutions to accept this law and not deny services like baking a cake for a gay wedding or performing a gay wedding in their church.  This ruling is wonderful, but it's just the beginning, much more work is needed"

 

So right now, the laws still protect religious freedom, but yet, how long before that is challenged?  I saw some comments where ones were saying "next, down with organized religion"  "take away tax exempt status from the churches"

 

Definitely interesting turn of events.  

 

The waters of Babylon are drying up...

 

I think it is interesting that these issues don't have to get bad enough that the issues turn into the GT or persecution on Jehovah's people over these issues. At some point everyone will declare peace and security, then it gets bad...

[Dustparticle]

 All

 

 John Roberts is upset about this. What he and we have to understand is that it is Satans world

Edited June 26, 2015 by Dustparticle

[Bluetape]

What is interesting is I was watching the news a little while ago and they were speaking to someone who helped with the case getting to the Supreme Court and this person said something interesting.  She said "our fight is just starting.  We now have to work on getting religious institutions to accept this law and not deny services like baking a cake for a gay wedding or performing a gay wedding in their church.  This ruling is wonderful, but it's just the beginning, much more work is needed"

 

Many churches essentially sell wedding services. If they offer weddings to the public, i think it is only a matter of time before they are told they cant turn down any wedding.

[Tia]

Many churches essentially sell wedding services. If they offer weddings to the public, i think it is only a matter of time before they are told they cant turn down any wedding.

Yep!  Geraldo Rivera Talk Show this morning echo your same words above today!  It could happen!

 

[Allabord4Jah]

Speaking of Babylon the Great, (Catholic Church is part of Babylon the Great) this story came from the Daily News/UK today June 26, 2015:

 

The secret gay-themed tours of the Vatican: Visitors can now hear the 'homosexual backstories' behind the famous art collections there

 

Quiky, an Italian tour operator, is now offering LGBT-themed itineraries to the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel, highlighting the 'gay back stories' of the world's most famous artworks.

[SacramentoBrother]

(Isaiah 5:20) Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good

(2 Timothy 3:13) But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse

[Tortuga]

How can we use this latest news report out in service?

Does anyone have a good response prepared that they would like to share?

[Tortuga]

It seems it will be more difficult for a homosexual to accept the truth if they are married. Has anyone heard any experiences of someone in a same-sex marriage getting the truth?

 

Here are several experiences of homosexuals that have changed their life style. 

*** dx86-14 Homosexuality ***

experiences:

homosexuality overcome: w12 5/1 19-20; w11 4/1 28-29; g05 4/8 27; w02 6/1 11-12; w93 2/1 6; g89 11/8 30; g86 7/22 28

homosexual tendencies overcome: w13 3/15 6; g89 4/8 22-23

lesbian changes: yb93 48

[Stavro]

How can we use this latest news report out in service?

 

How does politics relate to our Kingdom message?

 

The easiest way to lose someone's ear is to bring up a divisive topic where their views differ from the Bible. Our message is designed to be palatable to all, why muddy the waters by straying from the Bible's message?

[Shawnster]

I want to point out how crafty Satan has been in leading to this .  They've likened gay marriage to interracial marriage, which used to be illegal in the United States.  Interracial marriage is acceptable in Jehovah's eyes, since we're all the same race anyway.  So, Satan had banned something Jehovah would bless.  Over time Satan worked to get that ban lifted.  Now he's worked to get homosexual marriage legalized by using the interracial marriage ban as a stepping stone.

 

 

How can we use this latest news report out in service?

Does anyone have a good response prepared that they would like to share?

 

It depends on whom we're speaking to.  For some dyed-in-the-wool religious people, this new ruling will not set well.  One more example, like legalized abortion, how this country is not "God's Country" or blessed by God.  If their church starts allowing gay marriage, then we may be able to reason with them that their religion isn't acceptable to God.  It may open some doors that have previously been closed.

 

If we're talking to someone in favor of gay marriage.  A different approach will be needed.   We do not oppose gay marriage.  The law is the law.  It might be best to avoid this subject on homosexuality until a proper scriptural foundation had been laid up to that point.

 

 

It seems it will be more difficult for a homosexual to accept the truth if they are married. Has anyone heard any experiences of someone in a same-sex marriage getting the truth?

 

Here are several experiences of homosexuals that have changed their life style. 

*** dx86-14 Homosexuality ***

experiences:

homosexuality overcome: w12 5/1 19-20; w11 4/1 28-29; g05 4/8 27; w02 6/1 11-12; w93 2/1 6; g89 11/8 30; g86 7/22 28

homosexual tendencies overcome: w13 3/15 6; g89 4/8 22-23

lesbian changes: yb93 48

 

 

Interesting thought.  Normally we've told people they had to get married before they could proceed to become a publisher or baptized as a Witness.  Now we have a group of people that we'll tell they must get a divorce if they want to become a publisher or baptized as a Witness.

[Tortuga]

How does politics relate to our Kingdom message?

 

The easiest way to lose someone's ear is to bring up a divisive topic where their views differ from the Bible. Our message is designed to be palatable to all, why muddy the waters by straying from the Bible's message?

You misunderstood my brother. What if the HH brings it up?

Have you ever had someone at the door suddenly ask you what JW think about a current news event?

[Stavro]

What if the HH brings it up?

 

Fair enough, though I do know a few who will try to work current events into their regular presentation, regardless of the householders views.

 

When householders bring up current/political matters, I find that the safest course of action is to stay neutral, and steer the conversation back to the Kingdom message. While there are relevant Scriptures we could use, we don't know if the person is an extremist 'burn all the gays at the stake' klansman, or if they are themselves gay and trying to see how harsh our stance is toward gays.

 

We share the Bible's message, it's the householder's choice to act on that message. But for them to fully understand the message, they need to first know the truth about Jehovah and Jesus, which isn't going to happen if all we do is tickle the ears of those who are anti-gay, or invoke a series of anti-gay Scriptures against a man holding his adult son's hand because he recently lost his wife to cancer and our assistant thinks that hand-holding is a sign of a secret gay relationship.

[Tortuga]

Fair enough, though I do know a few who will try to work current events into their regular presentation, regardless of the householders views.

 

When householders bring up current/political matters, I find that the safest course of action is to stay neutral, and steer the conversation back to the Kingdom message. While there are relevant Scriptures we could use, we don't know if the person is an extremist 'burn all the gays at the stake' klansman, or if they are themselves gay and trying to see how harsh our stance is toward gays.

 

We share the Bible's message, it's the householder's choice to act on that message. But for them to fully understand the message, they need to first know the truth about Jehovah and Jesus, which isn't going to happen if all we do is tickle the ears of those who are anti-gay, or invoke a series of anti-gay Scriptures against a man holding his adult son's hand because he recently lost his wife to cancer and our assistant thinks that hand-holding is a sign of a secret gay relationship.

 

Exactly. Since the new law is in the news and it affects religious organizations I assume people will be asking what JW believe, I wanted to see if any of the friends here had already developed a simple response.

[Tortuga]

Here is a simple straightforward statement from the JV book that we can use if someone asks our stand on gay marriage.

 

*** jv chap. 13 pp. 174-175 Recognized by Our Conduct ***

But among the Witnesses, there was never any question as to how homosexuality would be viewed. Why not? Because they do not treat the Bible’s requirements as if these were merely the opinions of men of another era. (1 Thess. 2:13) They gladly conduct Bible studies with homosexuals so these can learn Jehovah’s requirements, and such persons may attend meetings of the Witnesses to listen, but no one who continues to practice homosexuality can be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.—1 Cor. 6:9-11; Jude 7.

[Nobody]

 

Here is a simple straightforward statement from the JV book that we can use if someone asks our stand on gay marriage.

 

*** jv chap. 13 pp. 174-175 Recognized by Our Conduct ***

But among the Witnesses, there was never any question as to how homosexuality would be viewed. Why not? Because they do not treat the Bible’s requirements as if these were merely the opinions of men of another era. (1 Thess. 2:13) They gladly conduct Bible studies with homosexuals so these can learn Jehovah’s requirements, and such persons may attend meetings of the Witnesses to listen, but no one who continues to practice homosexuality can be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.—1 Cor. 6:9-11; Jude 7.

 

 

Perfect, I think we should, if asked about the subject, it is important to be very clear as to what our position is. Otherwise I think we muddy the waters. Obviously we would not want to argue, or be disrespectful, but if asked, we should be prepared to defend our faith.   

[Stavro]

Here is a simple straightforward statement from the JV book that we can use if someone asks our stand on gay marriage.

 

I wish people in my area were that reasonable. Since this latest ruling, even the KKK protests have been more polite than some Witnesses have been at the door speaking to householders who never even brought up the subject...

 

It seems like some people view this as a literal redefinition of God's law, as though the opinions of five men hold greater Spiritual weight than Jehovah's own words.

[Tortuga]

I wish people in my area were that reasonable. Since this latest ruling, even the KKK protests have been more polite than some Witnesses have been at the door speaking to householders who never even brought up the subject...

 

Ouch. It wasn't my intent to suggest that we use the current news in our presentation or that we have a condemnatory response prepared. My intent was to see if anyone had a simple response prepared if someone asks us what we think of the court ruling. I like the one in the JV book.

[mfj731]

Greetings...

In view of the events of yesterday, my wife and I decided to be prepared for comments we might receive while in service. Sorry if this might have been mentioned before,

but some thoughts from the December 2010 Awake (Young People Ask) can be easily adapted for use in the territory. It offers suggestions of how to reply to common

views of those we might meet....

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102010448

[Dustparticle]

Ouch. It wasn't my intent to suggest that we use the current news in our presentation or that we have a condemnatory response prepared. My intent was to see if anyone had a simple response prepared if someone asks us what we think of the court ruling. I like the one in the JV book.

That issue did came up today in field service. Our thinking is what the Bible says.

[Nobody]

I wish people in my area were that reasonable. Since this latest ruling, even the KKK protests have been more polite than some Witnesses have been at the door speaking to householders who never even brought up the subject...

 

It seems like some people view this as a literal redefinition of God's law, as though the opinions of five men hold greater Spiritual weight than Jehovah's own words.

Sounds like a Congregation Needs part. 

[Tortuga]

Greetings...

In view of the events of yesterday, my wife and I decided to be prepared for comments we might receive while in service. Sorry if this might have been mentioned before,

but some thoughts from the December 2010 Awake (Young People Ask) can be easily adapted for use in the territory. It offers suggestions of how to reply to common

views of those we might meet....

 

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102010448

 

That's a great article and it really breaks it down to simple non-confrontational responses.

[Luezette]

This umm, "victory" only shows how much control Satan, through his pet the wild beast, has over his people. It also shows how much his people are turning to the wild beast.

Think. Who instituted marriage? Jehovah! But since they know that homosexuality is wrong, they look to Satan to tickle their ears to make it appear or to at least give it a glimmer of normalcy. In other words, they know they're wrong. They know they can't look to Jehovah for approval. Oh yeah, sure, the clergy of Christendom approves because they're Satan's people too. So they had to turn to Caesar for approval.

This is also why they had to Caesar's courts due to the outcry of other people who were and still against homosexual unions. It reminds me of Romans 2:14, 15 "For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused."

Edited June 27, 2015 by Luezette

[Dages]

The False Prophet, right?

[Tortuga]

I was just thinking how the first time the Bible mentions a rainbow is right after Jehovah destroyed a wicked world.

Now I see rainbow flags all over the place, where's a good flood when you need one?

 

[SacramentoBrother]

Now, more than ever, discernment and tact are important. Remember: we love people. All kinds of people. What they do in their personal life is really none of our business. We don't judge and never have. We are simply sharing an important, life-saving message. We can focus God's Words on His kingdom blessings such as no more crime, living forever, the paradise earth and peace with the animals. There's no need to get dogmatic about gay marriage on the first or second call. That will come with time and study. Eventually the student will learn God's view on homosexuality just like they will learn God's view on sex outside of marriage.

 

To sum up: "Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men." (2 Corinthians 12:17,18)

 

If you come across an irate or hostile person who takes issue with our views on homosexuality the best thing to do is walk away. Perhaps in the future they will become more receptive to the Bible's message.