My opinion on opinions

[Tortuga]

I really like your opinion on opinions Richard. Listening to someone's opinion gives dignity to the one expressing it. And as you say we come from different backgrounds, different cultures so who's to say their opinion is wrong?

 

It's my opinion that opinions are formed with the knowledge that we have and since few of us are experts on every subject or take the time to fully research a subject before we speak, our opinions may not be the same as those that may have more information or different information.

 

We see that In our service activity where we are encouraged to ask other people about their opinions, the brothers have been training us for years to respect their opinions so that instead of rebuking or criticizing them we gently provide the information they need to change their opinion. 

 

The WT study reminded me how we use that same training in the family, if a young person is curious about pornography, we use insight to understand why they are curious, then we get their opinion about pornography and instead of rebuking them or criticizing them, we loving provide the right information they need in order to understand why they should avoid pornography.

 

I appreciate that many friends on this forum are willing to offer their opinions on a variety of subjects even if they don't know much about it, it shows they want to be part of the conversation and are willing to gather more information that may confirm or change their opinion. Lovingly responding to someone's opinions, comments or questions will open the door to better communication, rebuking or criticizing them will only slam the door closed.

[kejedo]

Now, here's a quick question:

Can I grow an opinion? I mean, if it's well groomed and carefully taken care of...

My opinion is, "Yes." One could do so, just like a beard 

[kejedo]

What about when people impose their opinions on you when you have not asked for their advice? There is an Unbaptized Publisher that I generally see weekly.  She constantly gives me unsolicited advice re: finances, health, etc. She has a greater income than I, has given up her car, takes herself out to eat almost every day, and has her sister give her money and buy her expensive clothing. Her motto is, "I have always depended on the kindness of others." She is almost a hundred pounds overweight, has a colostomy and could have possible gotten it reversed if she followed the doc's instrux. I do not give her any advice. I just let it go, but sometimes it is annoying that she has such a high opinion of her own opinion. I have her for lunch once a week and was preparing a salad every time she came. I have a garden salad, but I would get her one with more carbs like a taco salad with corn and other extra ingredients.. She told me she is sick of salads. She is also impatient my little dog. 

[Tortuga]

What about when people impose their opinions on you when you have not asked for their advice? 

 

Do you think that she is just looking for validation?

[kejedo]

Do you think that she is just looking for validation?

Maybe. When people are bossy, I don't want to validate that, as if it were somehow useful to me to hear her opinions on how I should be living my life. She is working with the service overseer and his wife, in the field, and keeps saying she is ready for Baptism. The service overseer keeps telling her she needs to be patient. I think he is trying to have her discover for herself what she needs to work on, rather than counsel her directly on anything other than field service performance.  Example: She said she needs to celebrate, so she is (was) going out to an expensive restaurant with a worldly friend on what she referred to as the "Day after New Year's Eve." - meaning she was "celebrating" (her word) New Year's Day. She is very critical of the service overseer and others who have taken her out in service. Other example, my little dog plays with a toy chicken. Sometimes the dog puts the chicken down by me feet  and wants to play fetch. But when she is chewing on it, I don't try to pull it out of her mouth, as she is clamping down b/c I don't want to loosen her teeth. This person does pull on the dog's toy when the dog is chewing on it, and then tells the dog, "YOUr mother doesn't want me to do this."  I don't want to have to hire a dog sitter for when the UNBAp publisher visits. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by kejedo

[bagwell1987]

It's my opinion that opinions are formed with the knowledge that we have and since few of us are experts on every subject or take the time to fully research a subject before we speak, our opinions may not be the same as those that may have more information or different information.

 

We see that In our service activity where we are encouraged to ask other people about their opinions, the brothers have been training us for years to respect their opinions so that instead of rebuking or criticizing them we gently provide the information they need to change their opinion. 

 

The WT study reminded me how we use that same training in the family, if a young person is curious about pornography, we use insight to understand why they are curious, then we get their opinion about pornography and instead of rebuking them or criticizing them, we loving provide the right information they need in order to understand why they should avoid pornography.

 

I appreciate that many friends on this forum are willing to offer their opinions on a variety of subjects even if they don't know much about it, it shows they want to be part of the conversation and are willing to gather more information that may confirm or change their opinion. Lovingly responding to someone's opinions, comments or questions will open the door to better communication, rebuking or criticizing them will only slam the door closed.

I have a curiosity about me. I listen and learn everything I can (no, not objectionable stuff). Sometimes it affects me, sometimes it will affect those I love. Because I do NOT always understand I feel the need to put myself out there and see what kind of response I can get. My opinions aren't static, if I'm reading something and not understand it's true meaning well, that's just me and I'm ok with hearing another point of view. This means I'm still learning, how can I object to that?

 

But like you said Richard, as the WT yesterday did too, being careful when making an opposing opinion is vital to healthy conversation. Some may say I'm being overly emotional and sensitive, but nah, I'm not that sensitive. But I do 'hear' when someone is being abrasive with an opinion. I myself have done it and cannot apologize enough. Expressing/accepting differing opinions is the reason we post things on social media. I think it's just another form of human interaction. But when that opinion gets too direct without thought of how it will be 'heard' I tend to run off. Had too much of that kind of behavior for many years. And when I run I lose, can't benefit from conversation if I'm not there.

 

Nice post Richard, TY 

[bagwell1987]

Maybe. When people are bossy, I don't want to validate that, as if it were somehow useful to me to hear her opinions on how I should be living my life. She is working with the service overseer and his wife, in the field, and keeps saying she is ready for Baptism. The service overseer keeps telling her she needs to be patient. I think he is trying to have her discover for herself what she needs to work on, rather than counsel her directly on anything other than field service performance.  Example: She said she needs to celebrate, so she is (was) going out to an expensive restaurant with a worldly friend on what she referred to as the "Day after New Year's Eve." - meaning she was "celebrating" (her word) New Year's Day. She is very critical of the service overseer and others who have taken her out in service. Other example, my little dog plays with a toy chicken. Sometimes the dog puts the chicken down by me feet  and wants to play fetch. But when she is chewing on it, I don't try to pull it out of her mouth, as she is clamping down b/c I don't want to loosen her teeth. This person does pull on the dog's toy when the dog is chewing on it, and then tells the dog, "YOUr mother doesn't want me to do this."  I don't want to have to hire a dog sitter for when the UNBAp publisher visits. 

Pauline, I admire your willingness to be patient with her. From your description she's very dominating, even with doing to your pet what she knows you don't want. Nope, I wouldn't put up with that. And obviously she'll lie to herself to do what she wants with a clear conscience. I've been around people like her, too many actually.

Does she show signs of making progress? Is she trying to put on the fruits of the spirit? 

[kejedo]

Pauline, I admire your willingness to be patient with her. From your description she's very dominating, even with doing to your pet what she knows you don't want. Nope, I wouldn't put up with that. And obviously she'll lie to herself to do what she wants with a clear conscience. I've been around people like her, too many actually.

Does she show signs of making progress? Is she trying to put on the fruits of the spirit? 

She has made progress in that she is taking medication, although she says she doesn't need it. Previously she thought people were poisoning her food and the air in her apartment. So she carried all her food with her. She would call the police in the middle of the night to test her air as she was sure it was poisoned. Of, course, she concluded the police were wrong when they found nothing.  She also went through a gamut of emotions every time she would be with someone for an hour, including a crying jag. She also would mis-hear things that persons said and repeat her misquote. She keeps saying that I should take the same meds that she is, although our health diagnoses are very different.  She feels she knows more than my doctor. I try to not feed into her by refraining from talking about anything personal. But she observes things and imposes her opinion.  Example; Yesterday I got a nose bleed on the way out of Kingdom Hall. I know what causes this: I have allergically triggered sinusitis,rhinitis, and headaches. My primary triggers are cats and synthetic fragrances ( chemical perfumes). In addition, I have severe anemia and am having trouble keeping down the iron tabs. Usually the perfume in Kingdom Hall intensifies my upper respiratory reax. I unobtrusively packed my bleeding nostril (in the ladies' room,) but someone noticed it, and she started on her newest unsolicited medical advice, that I need to have my nose cauterized. She has been banging that drum for a while, since she learned of my 'check up from the neck up' probs. I have been told by an elder not to mention my perfume reax to anyone. He feels that is gossiping. I will see my doc, but I know the UnBap PUb will not be satisfied if my doc does not prescribe 'Cauterization.' I am quite sure doc will not recommend this because her advice to me has been to avoid cats and fragrances, and to take my iron tabs. 

[bagwell1987]

And again I say WOW, you deserve an Emmy for being patient with her. OMGoodness, want to say more but want to be upbuilding. My prayers for you sis.

[waccamacca]

I don't have an opinion at all. )

[kejedo]

Sorry to once again be banging that old drum about the unbap pub. that visits me regularly. She was a substitute teacher for a while and got the training on coughing in elbow, not hands. We once had a discussion about it, and she said ,'Look, I'm not coughing in my hand." She has alternately told me that she has whooping cough (for which there is not treatment, according to her,) and bronchitis.  My understanding of whooping cough is that it needs to be treated and is highly contagious. 

 

Today, I sat a couple of seats down from her (she takes up two seats- one for her, one for her books,) and she coughed productively into her hand throughout the meeting. Now, when I retired 10 months ago, I was at death's door and have worked at stabilizing my health.  I had to hand the mike to her today and followed that by hand sanitizer. 

 

I had prepared a lunch for us and added some items just for her, as she eats wheat and sugar and I do not. However, at the end of the meeting, I asked her how she was feeling. She said," I'm fine, I just have an ongoing cough." I told her I wasn't feeling too well, myself, and suggested we reschedule some time together.  Not a lie, I have an outbreak of hives from allergic reaction.

 

I will probably have her in for lunch in a couple of days, and was wondering if it would be rude to arrange her place setting to include tissues and hand sanitizer.   I see my doc once a month and my cardiologist every 3 months. As an asthmatic, I am having upper respiratory discomfort, but have been told I have nothing contagious. Nonetheless, I have avoided visiting people in the hospital, b/c I don't want my stuffiness to be interpreted as a hazard to their health.

 

Feedback, anyone?

[Precision]

Without going in to too much detail maybe you can explain to her  as a friend that you are currently visiting your physicians for respiratory problems and other complications and if she could please use the hand sanitizer and tissues.  Even the hospitals and clinics have sanitizer dispensers every where and encourage patients and staff to please be diligent in using them.   

[Pjdriver]

On September 5, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Tortuga said:

I’d like to offer my opinion on opinions.

 

It’s my opinion that someone’s opinion is never wrong, their opinion is based on their perception of the facts that they have. They may not have all of the facts and the facts they have may not be right, however their opinion is their opinion, it is unique and it is never wrong.

 

Since each person may have different facts or have a different perception of the available facts we have to assume that most people may have a different opinion than we do.

 

It’s my opinion that we should never challenge a person’s opinion, if we disagree with their opinion, we should challenge the facts their opinion is based on and provide additional facts but keep in mind that it is not just the facts but the person’s perception of the facts that creates their opinion, even with additional facts a person may not change their perception, that does not make them wrong.

 

It’s my opinion that when we have a different opinion that we never say or infer the other person is wrong, we just try to provide better facts.

 

Your opinions are welcome…

 

(as long as they agree with my opinion  ) 

Oh ya! That's just your opinion!  

just because my opinion changed, doesn't mean I'm not still right.  

[Witness1970]

On 9/5/2015 at 6:47 PM, kejedo said:

Should Algebra be taught before geometry? Personally, I like to teach Algebra 1 first, then plane geometry, then Advanced Algebra and trig,

followed by Solid Geometry. Should trig be taught before Calculus? I have found it useful to know trigonometric functions before learning Calculus. There are limits to my opinion. Accounting and Statistics can be plugged into the line-up individually. I beat all 3 teachers in last night's final Jeopardy. The answer was 'algorithm.' I think there was a math teacher among the contestants. We had a recent magazine article on mathematician Abū ʿAbdallāh Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī (Algebra was named after him, too.) And all my name can be connected to are the Pauline letters. (and Pauline-omials)

 

That's how it was in my high school.  Algebra I came first.  You could actually take Algebra II and geometry in the same year.  Then Algebra III and trigonometry were taught as one course the following year.  One semester of Algebra III and one semester of trigonometry.

[Witness1970]

On 1/4/2016 at 11:58 AM, kejedo said:

What about when people impose their opinions on you when you have not asked for their advice? There is an Unbaptized Publisher that I generally see weekly.  She constantly gives me unsolicited advice re: finances, health, etc. She has a greater income than I, has given up her car, takes herself out to eat almost every day, and has her sister give her money and buy her expensive clothing. Her motto is, "I have always depended on the kindness of others." She is almost a hundred pounds overweight, has a colostomy and could have possible gotten it reversed if she followed the doc's instrux. I do not give her any advice. I just let it go, but sometimes it is annoying that she has such a high opinion of her own opinion. I have her for lunch once a week and was preparing a salad every time she came. I have a garden salad, but I would get her one with more carbs like a taco salad with corn and other extra ingredients.. She told me she is sick of salads. She is also impatient my little dog. 

I might have a tendency to ask her, 'why would I take health advice from someone who is overweight and had to get a colostomy?  But then, that would just be my opinion!

 

I was told to go on a low carb diet by my doctor.  I have lost 10 pounds recently.  I avoided low carb diets before because they have a deleterious effect on my wife's digestion.  I now eat some salad each day, but I avoid starches, bread and sugar.  I am losing about a pound a day.  Love the eggs, sausage, chicken and other meats but I have to use dental floss after every meal.  I think that the food that is best designed for humans is vegetable based, but I would have to be working more every day to burn off all the carbs.  But again, that is just my opinion.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Witness1970

[RaymondG]

I like to make the distinction between opinion and another's version of the facts...

 

An opinion might be varied by certain facts but it remains an opinion. On the other hand, there are many people who have 'versions of the facts' which may be incorrect. These are NOT opinions.

 

For instance, the other day someone told me something about which I am quite knowledgeable and he had been misinformed. It was all totally wrong, and I'm sure if I'd gone to any length trying to correct him someone would have said to me, "He's entitled to his opinion."

 

But it wasn't an opinion. If he had formed a conclusion about it all it might have been an opinion, but the facts were simply incorrect facts.

[bagwell1987]

I like that Raymond. 

[Tortuga]

31 minutes ago, RaymondG said:

I like to make the distinction between opinion and another's version of the facts...

 

An opinion might be varied by certain facts but it remains an opinion. On the other hand, there are many people who have 'versions of the facts' which may be incorrect. These are NOT opinions.

 

For instance, the other day someone told me something about which I am quite knowledgeable and he had been misinformed. It was all totally wrong, and I'm sure if I'd gone to any length trying to correct him someone would have said to me, "He's entitled to his opinion."

 

But it wasn't an opinion. If he had formed a conclusion about it all it might have been an opinion, but the facts were simply incorrect facts.

That supports what I was trying to say. People form conclusions on the facts they have (or choose to use) and if the facts are incorrect or incomplete then we may choose to provide them with better or additional facts.

 

However, I think an opinion is a conclusion based on the perception of the available information,  since it is a perception of the data, it is not just data driven, there is an emotional factor due to our environment, culture or past experience that will form the available data into an  opinion, so just telling someone their opinion is wrong because the data is incorrect is the same thing as telling them their emotions, culture. life experience and perceptions are wrong. 

 

I agree with Raymond, people can form erroneous conclusions if they don't have all of the facts, however I think people can form different opinions with the same facts because of their personal perception of the facts. 

[bagwell1987]

Yep, perception of available data at any given time. This is still a subject of interest to me. When we talk to people we (me) have to be very careful, must consider my audience. If you have an oversensitive person you will tailor your words to fit them as they will focus on particular areas where they feel they're being slighted, yet the same info can be shared with a person with a less sensitive temperament and you can be less cautious and/or a little less specific.  

 

• the state of being or process of becoming aware of something through the senses.

  "the perception of pain" 

  synonyms:

  recognition, awareness, consciousness, appreciation, realization,knowledge, grasp, understanding, comprehension, apprehension; formalcognizance "our perception of our own limitations"

•  

  When I looked Perception up again I was interested to see the synonyms- they're personal. Our perceptions are made up of, like was said, our personal  experiences.

   

   

  AS IS opinion- 

   

  synonyms:

  belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view,viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion,standpoint;  sentiment, conception, conviction     So then what is the perception of our opinion? Or perhaps our opinion of perception??? Hmmm.

[Pjdriver]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

That supports what I was trying to say. People form conclusions on the facts they have (or choose to use) and if the facts are incorrect or incomplete then we may choose to provide them with better or additional facts.

 

However, I think an opinion is a conclusion based on the perception of the available information,  since it is a perception of the data, it is not just data driven, there is an emotional factor due to our environment, culture or past experience that will form the available data into an  opinion, so just telling someone their opinion is wrong because the data is incorrect is the same thing as telling them their emotions, culture. life experience and perceptions are wrong. 

 

I agree with Raymond, people can form erroneous conclusions if they don't have all of the facts, however I think people can form different opinions with the same facts because of their personal perception of the facts. 

So Richard correct me if my opinion of what you're trying to say wrong but the bottom line it seems..., is that its impolite or inappropriate  to tell someone their opinions or feelings on a matter are wrong.  It would be better  to tell them the the premise for their opinion is wrong, or may be wrong. Basically because their opinion  was formed on what they perceived to be facts.

If one is raised in false religion and is of the opinion and strongly believes there is a hellfire....we would not say "you are wrong". Better to say, 'the premise for your belief is not supported in Scripture. Your premise or facts you based your opinion on are wrong.' Is this how you're separating fact from opinion?

 

[Old]

21 hours ago, Tortuga said:

That supports what I was trying to say. People form conclusions on the facts they have (or choose to use) and if the facts are incorrect or incomplete then we may choose to provide them with better or additional facts.

 

However, I think an opinion is a conclusion based on the perception of the available information,  since it is a perception of the data, it is not just data driven, there is an emotional factor due to our environment, culture or past experience that will form the available data into an  opinion, so just telling someone their opinion is wrong because the data is incorrect is the same thing as telling them their emotions, culture. life experience and perceptions are wrong. 

 

I agree with Raymond, people can form erroneous conclusions if they don't have all of the facts, however I think people can form different opinions with the same facts because of their personal perception of the facts. 

That is just your opinion. 

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Old said:

That is just your opinion. 

Yup, based on my perception of the material presented...

 

Don't tell me it is wrong....

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tortuga

[bagwell1987]

Nice to have the turtle back. Sorry, I like familiar,  your name and the turtle go together.

 

Sorry, back to topic....

[Tortuga]

On 9/5/2015 at 1:56 PM, Tortuga said:

I’d like to offer my opinion on opinions.

 

It’s my opinion that someone’s opinion is never wrong, their opinion is based on their perception of the facts that they have. They may not have all of the facts and the facts they have may not be right, however their opinion is their opinion, it is unique and it is never wrong.

 

Since each person may have different facts or have a different perception of the available facts we have to assume that most people may have a different opinion than we do.

 

It’s my opinion that we should never challenge a person’s opinion, if we disagree with their opinion, we should challenge the facts their opinion is based on and provide additional facts but keep in mind that it is not just the facts but the person’s perception of the facts that creates their opinion, even with additional facts a person may not change their perception, that does not make them wrong.

 

It’s my opinion that when we have a different opinion that we never say or infer the other person is wrong, we just try to provide better facts.

 

Your opinions are welcome…

 

(as long as they agree with my opinion  ) 

 

Speaking of opinions, sometimes we need to just respect the other persons opinions and talk about something else.

[Musky]

 
Speaking of opinions, sometimes we need to just respect the other persons opinions and talk about something else.

That's just your opinion!