Teen arrested for not turning over cell phone

[JudyO]

http://www.mail.com/news/us/3918518-lawyer-teen-suffered-injuries-classroom-arrest.html#.7518-stage-hero1-2

 

 

Talk about a prime example of children being disobedient in the last days!

 

Whether it was racially motivated or not, my question is: do you think teens will be more likely or less likely to obey in the future after this incident?

[Stavro]

Talk about a prime example of children being disobedient in the last days!

 

While I understand your point, I'm not sure that's the lesson I would take away from this incident.

 

School is supposed to prepare kids for adult life. So do we really want to teach our kids that it's perfectly fine to commit assault and fling people across the room for the heinous "crime" of texting?

[Nobody]

All she had to do was put down the phone.

[kejedo]

"Kids are not criminals, by the way. When they won't get up, when they won't put up the phone, they're silly, disobedient kids — not criminal." ( quote from the article.)  Classrooms are unmanageable when students are playing with their phone, or what I used to call "lap-staring." Many students said they had a habit of staring at their laps, when they were actually using their phone. This is so prevalent in school, probably 90 plus per cent of my students were 'lap starers'. " It is impossible to teach when students are just not looking up or doing work, because they were only looking at their phone 'for a second'. Although they were not supposed to be using their phones in school, there was no recourse to deal with it. Some parents fought for their sons/daughters rights to keep their phone in class. Non compliance to school and class rules are disobedient, but not silly. The teacher is powerless when the student defiantly refuses to follow rules. The teacher refers to the administrator, and the student refuses to be compliant, again. The school police officer intervened, and has been informed that the school resource police person is also powerless. I have no particular opinion on this case, but from my own experience, the system is too broke to be fixed, And there is nothing silly about that. 

[kejedo]

I might also add, that many students already have criminal records, I have had students in my class with restraining orders against each other. I had asked my supervisor to allow a 'no-hat' rule in class, and she denied it. I did get the self admitted head of the local Bloods graduated. One of my students had a juvey record for burning a house down to the ground while she was using drugs. When I taught Middle school, at least one of my students had been transferred to our school for assaulting his teacher in his previous school. He kicked a chair and desk at me once, but our school let it go. He was assigned an in school tutor, at great cost, to get him to pass. A male middle school teacher informed me, "The students clinic each other on how to get away with everything." Another teacher was threatened that the student would kill her if she did not give him an "A". Sadly, many school principals and admins just put the students back into class with no consequences. They feel powerless and just want the students to pass for statistical reasons =$. Seriously, I was appalled that many schools felt proud of promoting student who had been taught little, if any, academics; and certainly no socially acceptable conduct.     

[trottigy]

I have no particular opinion on this case, but from my own experience, the system is too broke to be fixed, And there is nothing silly about that. 

 

You are SO right. 

 

More than a dozen parents and community members spoke out at a Tuesday night meeting of the Richland 2 School District. Some, black and white alike, said the issue wasn't based on race, and, while the officer may have used unnecessary force, the whole incident shows that teachers and administrators need to work harder on finding ways to handle defiant students.

 

This does seem to be the primary issue - "how to handle defiant students."

 

Teachers and admin need to have a way to do this. When I was growing - if I had done what she did and the office did what he did - my parents might have given a thank you gift to the officer! And I would not have been able sit down without pain for a day or so.

 

I am reminded of a few Bible verses:

 

Eccl 8:11

11 Because sentence against a bad deed has not been executed speedily,+ the heart of men becomes emboldened to do bad.+

 

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008244?q=become+a+thankless+one&p=par

 

Consider this wise proverb from ancient times: “If one is pampering one’s servant from youth on, in his later life he will even become a thankless one.” (Proverbs 29:21) Granted, a child is not a servant. Would you not agree, though, that the principle applies to child rearing? Pampering children, giving them all they want, may cause them to grow up to be “thankless”—spoiled, willful, unappreciative adults.

In contrast, the Bible advises parents: “Train up a boy according to the way for him.” (Proverbs 22:6) Wise parents follow this direction, setting and enforcing clear, consistent, and reasonable rules. They do not confuse love with permissiveness; nor do they reward children for whining, nagging, or throwing tantrums. Rather, they agree with Jesus’ wise words: “Just let your word Yes mean Yes, your No, No.” (Matthew 5:37) 

Edited October 28, 2015 by trottigy

[Stavro]

All she had to do was put down the phone.

 

And?

 

I'm pretty sure that the attendant in a hall can't tackle someone who forgets to turn off their ringer, nor can a supervisor break the arm of an employee who presses a wrong button. Yet this is the lesson being taught in the schools, and it very often carries over into their adult life.

 

Personally, I'm getting tired of people resorting to violence first rather than any actual discussion. If I am three steps ahead of you in the grocery store and I get into the checkout line that you want, all you have to do is say "I'm in a rush could I go ahead of you". Instead, the increasingly common attitude many have is to shove others out of the way, then scream at the top of their lungs if the one being shoved doesn't fall far enough out of the way.

 

I feel that defensive violence should be an absolute last resort only employed when all other alternatives have been exhausted, but I understand that some may feel differently.

[trottigy]

I am glad I went to public school, but I am also glad I went WHEN i did!!!  

 

The 70s and 80s did not have the same issues as today  

[kejedo]

Here is an older vid of the caliber of some of my adult high students. I'm sorry I can't provide an updated video. Our hood stopped making videos when many from this one were busted. Please keep the volume down. If this is too violent, feel free to remove. I just wanted to give some, who have been out of school for a while, a taste of what attitudes are jumping from the street into the classroom.  Osmosis = the movement of a substance from an area of higher concentration to one of lower concentration."

[Musky]

If I read the story correctly. The teacher had a discussion with the student, and then the vice principle was called who also had a discussion with the student, and then the officer was called who also first had a discussion with the student. What happens when all discussions do not bring results? The officer may have over-reacted, but what were his alternatives? I just saw that he was fired to appease popular opinion. 

 

As Jerry stated, if I were the student, I would have gotten it worse from my parents after this incident was finished. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Musky

[trottigy]

If I read the story correctly. The teacher had a discussion with the student, and then the vice principle was called who also had a discussion with the student, and then the officer was called who also first had a discussion with the student. What happens when all discussions do not bring results? The officer may have over-reacted, but what were his alternatives? I just saw that he was fired to appease popular opinion. 

 

As Jerry stated, if I were the student, I would have gotten it worse from my parents after this incident was finished. 

 

Perhaps he could have stunned her - instead of what he did?

 

 

At some point enforcement is necessary - it just can't be too extreme.

 

 May the Kingdom come soon!!!!

[Stavro]

What happens when all discussions do not bring results?

 

Suspension? Expulsion? Have the officer imitate a drill sergeant?

 

I'm not saying that nothing should have been done, I just don't think that the crime of texting should be a potentially capital offense (as so often happens when these sorts of attacks go wrong).

[kejedo]

This is not uncommon 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/us/30principal.html?_r=0

 

Educators and Principals being attacked or killed. This was Wisconsin, not NY, and the student was angry b/c the principal was not able to control other students who were insulting him.  

[Nobody]

And?

 

I'm pretty sure that the attendant in a hall can't tackle someone who forgets to turn off their ringer, nor can a supervisor break the arm of an employee who presses a wrong button. Yet this is the lesson being taught in the schools, and it very often carries over into their adult life.

 

Personally, I'm getting tired of people resorting to violence first rather than any actual discussion. If I am three steps ahead of you in the grocery store and I get into the checkout line that you want, all you have to do is say "I'm in a rush could I go ahead of you". Instead, the increasingly common attitude many have is to shove others out of the way, then scream at the top of their lungs if the one being shoved doesn't fall far enough out of the way.

 

I feel that defensive violence should be an absolute last resort only employed when all other alternatives have been exhausted, but I understand that some may feel differently.

Imagine how the teacher feels.

 

Suspension? Expulsion? Have the officer imitate a drill sergeant?

 

I'm not saying that nothing should have been done, I just don't think that the crime of texting should be a potentially capital offense (as so often happens when these sorts of attacks go wrong).

 

It wasn't just texting. She struck the officer, a felony. All she had to do was put the phone down. Now I know it is so popular now to say the big mean cop hurt this poor innocent little girl. But all she had to do was follow the instructions of the teacher, principal, officer. All She had to do was put the phone down.

[Stavro]

All She had to do was put the phone down.

 

I am not speaking of this particular incident, I am speaking of the common attitude that violence is something to be praised, as many tend to do in these situations.

 

I personally don't think I did anything wrong when I was standing in a grocery store checkout line, but apparently my crime did indeed warrant being shoved out of the way into a sturdy display, which caused me to remain in the way of the shover, and a second shove ensured that I was on the floor and out of the shover's way.

[Nobody]

There, my point is made. All you had to was get out the way the first time!  

 

I'm sorry you got shoved Stavro. It makes me sad to hear of things like that happening. And I hate to say it, if I had been there with you, there probably would have been additional violence.

 

Not much longer my Brother, not much longer.

[kejedo]

Getting OT again: I was standing in an under 20 item grocery line, and a man a few customers behind me told me to get out, I had too many items. I had a couple of bulky items,like an 8 roll of paper towels, but they were in a package, so a one ring item. "Oh, I'm sorry, I'll check it out." I replied. Since the customer ahead of me was checking through, I asked the cashier if I had too many items. "No, you're fine," she said. I did not look up and make eye contact with the complainer, because I did not want to seem smug. If I was doing something wrong, I would surely have moved. I have frequently seen people ahead of me in express lines with a cart overflowing, but have never taken it upon myself to correct them.  I'm sorry you were physically shoved in a grocery store. That is really public assault.    

Edited October 28, 2015 by kejedo

[comtemplate]

Aggressive behavior should never in my opinion be tolerated no matter what the case. I too at one time in my life was a teacher(adults at a technical college) and I did have to deal with conduct beyond my capabilities... I would have to regularly call security.They would come into the classroom when I would call and escort the individual out (there were times when they'd have to wait for the cops to come ). (All was done with dignity and respect for another person). 

 

 

We refuse to take blood due to our beliefs, isn't it wrong for someone to forceablly give it to us anyway?

We go to the doors of people trying to help them, wouldn't it be wrong for someone to physically enforce their disdain for us?

In the end we will experience this with the CON, we use our mouths to preach which doesn't hurt anyone... they respond by physically by attacking us. (That's wrong anyway you look at it, it's still wrong)

 

I"ll always disagree, there is never a reason for anyone to become so incensed that it turns violent or to abusive behavior. Wrong is wrong no matter what any human had ... a mouse, a phone, wallet...

 

 

And all the cop had to do was wait a few second for backup ...simple solution

 

Details of what actually happened maybe inaccurate, for example what's the difference between struck or hit? And was she hit first? Who knows,  I'd never want anyone I know to be thrown or slammed like that, that was rough to watch.

[Nobody]

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/10/28/watch-high-school-student-slams-principal-ground-during-intense-brawl?ref=yfp

 

So who will get in trouble here? Principle obviously attacked the student from behind. All he had to do was back off and wait for the authorities.

 

LOSE LOSE LOSE

 

Everyone loses.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Your Brother

[Stavro]

Aggressive behavior should never in my opinion be tolerated no matter what the case.

 

Exactly my point, thank you.

 

If the "assault" occurred exactly as reported, then there are plenty of other ways this could have been handled without resorting to HULK SMASH.

 

But at the same time, at least some of the initial charges people face are outright lies. For example, Robert Leone was charged for breaking an officer's finger, with his face, and Jose Cruz was charged for provoking an officer, by farting.

[Nobody]

 Jose Cruz was charged for provoking an officer, by farting.

MUUUUUSSSSSSTTTTTTT NOOOOOTTTTT GOOOOOO THHHHEEEERRRREEEE

 

   

[Julsey]

As Jerry stated, if I were the student, I would have gotten it worse from my parents after this incident was finished. 

Same would have happened to me!

[Julsey]

Suspension? Expulsion? Have the officer imitate a drill sergeant?

 

I'm not saying that nothing should have been done, I just don't think that the crime of texting should be a potentially capital offense (as so often happens when these sorts of attacks go wrong).

She may have only been texting, but, essentially, it was her defiant attitude and continued *disobedience* and disrespect for authority that got her into trouble.  As we know, this is pretty common in the world today.  I even see it on the part of several people under 30 at my place of employment.  You can't tell them anything..and you'd better not try!

 

I feel for most police today.  They are in an untenable situation.  If they do nothing, they're not doing their job.  If they do something, even when it isn't over the top, they're brutal, racists, or both.

[Toy Poodles]

From what I saw of the video, when the officer tried to get her up out of her seat, she resisted him with her arms because first he tried to grab one arm and then tried to grab the other arm but she is fighting him. After this she made it so her body went limp in the chair so that he couldn't get a good hold on her when pulling her up and out of the chair, so when he did try to pull her up the chair was by then connected to her body by her limp posture which tumbled her and the chair backwards. He then grabbed her out of the chair as it  fell and pulled her forward out of the tanglement of the chair which with a limp body you would have to pull with some force to get her up and out which made her fall forward a few feet. 

He probably shouldn't of grabbed her after she fell and made sure she was alright but when you have all these eyes on you and you are embarrassed at the situation this girl has put one through then you just want it over with.

and you can still hear her struggling with him for him to get the cuffs on her. 

 

I am not excusing the cops behaviour but if you were a law officer and was asked to go there and get this girl out of her chair and out of the classroom and after having a discussion with her, she is still rebellious, what choice did he have?

 

video: 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/614907/Video-white-police-officer-black-student-brutality

[Qapla]

I am not taking sides here nut one does have to ask ....

 

had it been a black cop arresting a white girl, or a white cop arresting a white girl or a black cop arresting a black girl would there be the same amount of fuss?

 

Disobedience and defiance is what it is and over-zealousness is what it is - perhaps this is just the two meeting in an unfortunate instance that bystanders felt they just had to record.