Think the economy may collapse? We may be closer than anyone thinks. Negative interest rates are a reality.

[hatcheckgirl]

Monopoly money for everyone.  There, happy?

 

It's just a means to an end, it can be traded.  Whatever the ancients used for currency, be it beads, salt, spices, gold etc, it was just a means to trade one item in exchange for another.  So, that means of exchange (using the word "money" here) was not inflated/deflated or affected by supply and demand.  It was a fixed or negotiated for the things traded.  As was mentioned, there were standards for weights, measures and coinage in the ancient world, and the Mosaic law reflected that. 

 

We will have to see if we get to use a fixed standard medium for the exchange of goods, or if Jehovah uses another totally new system he had originally planned.

[Tortuga]

We will have to see if we get to use a fixed standard medium for the exchange of goods, or if Jehovah uses another totally new system he had originally planned.

 

I wonder if we will need an exchange system if we all have work assignments. If I am assigned to be a roofer or electrician, then that is what I would do during the designated work period and I wouldn't need to be paid to do it. As long as someone else is assigned to grow food, make furniture and take care of other necessities, then as long everyone fulfills their work assignment, there wouldn't need to be any reason to barter.  We do that now on construction projects, no one earns credits that are used to pay for food and housing, they do their assigned work and everything else is provided by other people doing their assignments.

 

I think that money developed because people were living independent of each other and were mostly self sufficient but they needed a barter system to get the things they didn't have; however if we live together in a communal setting with individual work assignments that cover everyone's needs, then we wouldn't need a barter system.

 

I hate to say it but this conversation is starting to sound like Socialism vs Capitalism or Market Socialism vs Non-Market Socialism. I guess that shows that Satan's system is trying to mirror what Jehovah may have purposed..

[Tortuga]

"Money" was built into the Mosaic Law by Jehovah. I wouldn't call the things Jehovah put into the law covenant "products of Satan."

 

That sounds like a good subject for personal study focusing on whether or not money was originally needed within the Israelite nation or if a barter system was developed just because they had business with non-Israelites.. 

[normadenardo]

I think it is even simpler if:  You want a goat?  You need a goat?  Here, have a goat.  You want some corn?  You need some corn?  Here, have some corn.  

 

Meanwhile we're doing the best we can to be a good contributing member of society.  Even if our contribution is art or music or babysitting someone's children while they are busy getting a goat and corn.  As long as you are doing something for the betterment of your neighbor/community/rest of humanity, then you will be provided with everything you want and need.

 

So you grow corn and you can't roof a house.  Someone else doesn't want corn but can roof a house.  That's fine.  He'll roof your house and you give your corn to someone that needs corn.  Your roofer will get his new jazz album from someone that records jazz.

 

I imagine our economy will be based on the Golden Rule.  Do to others as you want them to do to you. Not barter.  Not trade.  You simply do good for someone else.

Love your comment. This is how i feel. Besides who would be the one that places the worth or value on differing items? Who would decide how much corn a goat is worth? It leads to a much more complicated way of life.

[Miss Mouse]

WAIT - you would trade away your chocolate???

 

I do NOT believe it!!!  

 

How about for some bacon?? Wait!! NOPE, I wont trade any of that for anything    It will be like GOLD!!!

Not if you choose to be a pig farmer ( cheeky grin)

[Shawnster]

"Money" was built into the Mosaic Law by Jehovah. I wouldn't call the things Jehovah put into the law covenant "products of Satan."

 

 

 

The Mosaic law also made provisions for brother-in-law marriage and slavery.  A provision in the Law necessary for living in Satan's world is not the same as something being Jehovah's true purpose.  Money is a necessary tool to function in this world controlled by Satan.    Likewise, police and antibiotics are necessary tools to function in Satan's world.  

 

This would be a good discussion in it's own right.  Maybe we should think about splitting the conversation.

 

If we really want to consider this, we have to look at the origin of money and the monetary system.  Additionally, we would do well to look at the side effects or unintended consequences of money.

 

Gold has been mentioned up above.  That's a good place to start.  Gold has been used for millennia as a means of trade.  Value for goods and services was measured by a certain amount of gold.  But my question is why?  What gives gold it's value?It's just a pretty, shiny rock, a bit of metal someone dug up from the ground.  Jehovah put it in the ground for free.  It only took effort to dig the gold up.  Somewhere along the way humanity decided that this should be the preferred means of monetary exchange.  When you think about it though, gold is as useless as any other rock.  You can't eat it.  You can't drink it.  You can't use it to keep warm.  You must trade the gold for something you need.  

 

Ultimately gold is as worthless and useless as anything else.  It's only man's perception of gold that gives it a value.  

 

Another factor to consider, as others have said above, is who places the value on a particular good or service?  What makes a goat worth more or less than 20 lbs of corn?  Who sets the pricing?  Jehovah?  The Governing Body?  Ourselves?  What about services that are much more difficult to quantify or set a value on?  It's easy to understand that a bushel of corn should be worth X.  But how much should a composition of music be worth?  Today's economy has these things in place, but they ultimately have been dictated by the government or set by greedy man.  

 

Scarcity affects prices today.  Corn out of season should cost more than corn in season.  If a flower or a certain gemstone is rare and uncommon, it costs more.  Amount of effort that goes into acquiring an object also determines price.  If I have to work hard with a pick axe to get 10 ounces of gold or silver, then that gold or silver is going to be worth a lot more to me than some rock I can just pick up with no effort.  Likewise, if I don't live where pineapples or oranges grow, then they will cost me more due to refrigeration and transportation costs than if I lived in the tropics.

 

What about after hours work?  Should that drive up the price?  What is my time worth?

 

Some people are stronger than others.  They can do harder, more strenuous manual labor.  Should they get paid more than someone who isn't as strong?  Should people all get paid the same wage for a day's work regardless of their skill or strength level?  Even in the new system some people will be stronger than others.  

 

You're right.  We're getting into Capitalism vs. Socialism.  One of the aspects of the Kingdom I greatly admire is how Jehovah takes the best ideas from all these other "isms" and works them into the Kingdom.  Everyone will be treated fairly.  Everyone will have all they can want or need.  No big government is going to burden the citizens with laws upon laws and rules and regulations.

 

I just don't see the need for money in the new world.  We only need money now because of Satan and how he's set up this world.  In the family arrangement today, the children do not pay the parents for their toys or food.  The parents provide all that the the children want or need.  The children are required to do chores around the house.  Everyone is a contributing member of the family.

 

Jehovah provides everything we need now and will do so in the future.  Why would man want to put some arbitrary monetary value on what Jehovah gives for free?

 

It took me about 25 years to meditate upon this and only this year did I reach the conclusion that a "pay it forward" economy would actually work under God's Kingdom.  Only under Jehovah's direction could such a selfless economy function.  Man can't do it now and that is why he invented money and devised all these "isms" of political and economic thought.  

[trottigy]

 Besides who would be the one that places the worth or value on differing items? Who would decide how much corn a goat is worth? It leads to a much more complicated way of life.

 

In the Mosaic Law - Jehovah and the priest decided:

 

 

Jehovah continued to speak to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the Israelites and tell them, ‘If a man makes a special vow+ to offer the estimated value of a person* to Jehovah, 3 the estimated value of a male from 20 to 60 years old will be 50 shekels* of silver by the standard shekel of the holy place.* 4 But if it is a female, the estimated value will be 30 shekels. 5 If the age is from 5 to 20 years old, the estimated value of the male will be 20 shekels and 10 shekels for the female. 6 If the age is from one month up to five years old, the estimated value of the male will be five shekels of silver and three shekels of silver for the female.

7 “‘If the age is 60 years and over, the estimated value will be 15 shekels for the male and 10 shekels for the female. 8 But if he is too poor to pay the estimated value,+ the person will stand before the priest, and the priest will set a value on him. The priest will make the valuation according to what the one making the vow can afford.+

[shali]

That doesn't mean Jehovah invented money, it was just used a a means at this time to be able to afford the things needed for the upkeep of pure worship.  If money had never been invented and all trading was done on the basis of love for your neighbor, this arrangement would never of been needed.  But imperfect man can't do that in a system run by Satan.  Now a government run by Jehovah and based on love is an entirely different matter!

[trottigy]

That doesn't mean Jehovah invented money, it was just used a a means at this time to be able to afford the things needed for the upkeep of pure worship.  If money had never been invented and all trading was done on the basis of love for your neighbor, this arrangement would never of been needed.  But imperfect man can't do that in a system run by Satan.  Now a government run by Jehovah and based on love is an entirely different matter!

 

My point - Jehovah wouldn't use something Satanic as part of worship to Him   - ESPECIALLY something related to sacrifices related to ransoming someone   

[vern]

I was reading tonight's bible reading 2 Chronicles 6-9 and even though it talks about Solomon being extremely prosperous and that he collected "Talents" of gold it doesn't mention a banking system or that the gold was used to make coins or back a money system.  He ended up using the gold as a resource to make things with.

If we use a money monetary system it will be used so opposite to how its used today I'm not sure it will be of much value anywayz.  lol

[Tbs77]

Economic Drama with Saudi Arabia

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-warns-ofeconomic-fallout-if-congress-passes-9-11-bill.html?referer=

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