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Think the economy may collapse? We may be closer than anyone thinks. Negative interest rates are a reality.


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Haven't some Australian banks been doing this for some time?

I mean, they do offer meagre interest, but then charge fees that greatly offset anything you might earn in interest paid by the banks.

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Negative interest is when the government sets its key lending rate at -.01%. or lower. This causes an investment to lose money just on the fact of the deposit being done. So if you deposit $1000 right off the bat you would lose .01 percent on that money every month that it is in there. That is negative interest. There is a big difference in a bank paying out a very low interest rate. A savings account will only pay about 1% interest or less here in Canada. The central bank has set its key lending rate at about 1.5%. Japan's lending rate is at 0% or so. Read the article you will get a better idea how it works. Its a very scary situation. 

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Isn't it interesting that the mosaic law forbid interest loans. You can make the point to Isrealites only; but in the new system there will be no gentiles.

What!?

1. Loans with interest WERE permitted, just not for "needs" of fellow Jews. For wants and to Gentiles they could charge interest.

2. In the New World both peoples who were Jews and Gentiles will be resurrected. Now, we'll not have nationalities per se then, but culturally we'll have both. What this has to do with loans - I have no idea. :nope:


Edited by trottigy
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What!?

1. Loans with interest WERE permitted, just not for "needs" of fellow Jews. For wants and to Gentiles they could charge interest.

2. In the New World both peoples who were Jews and Gentiles will be resurrected. Now, we'll not have nationalities per set then, but culturally we'll have both. What this has to do with loans - I have no idea. :nope:

You had me into a deep analytic thought process :uhhuh: , and then made me laugh. Scrutiny leads to hilarity :D . I need to use that formula more frequently.

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:thumbsup: As Jerry said:
 

What!?

1. Loans with interest WERE permitted, just not for "needs" of fellow Jews. For wants and to Gentiles they could charge interest.

 
*** it-1 p. 1212 Interest ***
INTEREST
The price or rate paid by a debtor for the use of what he borrows.
 
Already in the second millennium B.C.E., Babylon had a fully developed loan system. The Code of Hammurabi indicates a 20-percent interest rate on money and grain, and it stipulates that a merchant charging a higher rate would forfeit the amount lent. By contrast God’s law to Israel prohibited making loans on interest to needy fellow Israelites. No one was to profit from another’s financial reverses. (Ex 22:25; Le 25:36, 37; De 23:19) And Proverbs 28:8 indicates that fortunes acquired from interest wrongfully collected would eventually become the possession of “the one showing favor to the lowly ones.”
 
Foreigners, however, could be charged interest by the Israelites. (De 23:20) Jewish commentators understand this to apply, not to cases of need, but to business loans. (The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by J. H. Hertz, London, 1972, p. 849) Usually foreigners were in Israel only temporarily, often as merchants, and could reasonably be expected to pay interest, particularly since they would also be lending to others on interest.
 
Whereas upright Israelites obeyed God’s law about making interest-free loans (Ps 15:5; Eze 18:5, 8, 17), lending on interest apparently became common and brought hardships on needy debtors. (Ne 5:1-11; Isa 24:2; Eze 18:13; 22:12) Jesus Christ, though, upheld God’s law in this regard and gave it an even broader application, saying: “Continue . . . to lend without interest, not hoping for anything back.” (Lu 6:34, 35) It would therefore be improper to withhold assistance from a person who because of continued adversity and through no fault of his own might be unable to repay a debt. But when the loan is not needed to relieve poverty, there would be no objection to a person’s charging interest on a loan. Jesus himself, by having the wicked slave in one of his illustrations censured for failing to deposit his master’s money with the bankers so as to draw interest, implied that receiving interest from invested capital is proper.—Mt 25:26, 27; Lu 19:22, 23.
 
 

 
 

2. In the New World both peoples who were Jews and Gentiles will be resurrected. Now, we'll not have nationalities per set then, but culturally we'll have both. What this has to do with loans - I have no idea.  :nope:

 
I've got to disagree on this one.  Yes, people of all nations will be resurrected, but we won't consider them people from other nations.  Even now in the Christian Congregation there is neither Jew nor Greek in God's eyes.  We will all be God's people, so there won't be foreigners.  There will, from time to time, be people from "out of town."
 
As for economy... I really think we will live in a "pay it forward" economy.  There will not be any monetary unit, money or cash.  Everyone will work toward the betterment of their fellow man.  No need for loans as we will get whatever we want or need so long as we are also working to give to others.


Edited by Shawnster
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Wht the bubble gum are you guys talking about? This isn't about loans in the jewish system or ours. Its about the collapse of countries monetary systems. Therefore about the world economy falling apart.

 

EXACTLY, except - the article is NOT about " the collapse of countries monetary systems."

 

Instead the article's stated purpose is very clear -"several of Europe’s central banks have cut key interest rates below zero and kept them there for more than a year. For some, it’s a bid to reinvigorate an economy with other options exhausted."

 

The economy is not doing well in Europe and hasn't for several years. It is NOT on the verge of "collapse". The US economy is doing very well. So much so that they are raising interest rates this year. As the US economy improves and since it is the LARGEST economy in the world - Europe (on of the largest trading partners with the US) will soon pick up as well.

 

In the meantime, LARGE investors (including countries) will use alternative banks to the few European ones that want to charge for overnight deposits. But as yet - only ONE bank is actually charging for fear of this - as also stated in the article:

 

"Banks have been reluctant to pass on negative rates for fear of losing customers, though Julius Baer began to charge large depositors."


Edited by trottigy
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I never pictured having money in the new system.  I always figured we would do things for ourselves or work on the barter system (exchange talents for talents)  Money seems to lead to all sorts of "evils" including greed, fraud, extortion and the list goes on and on.  Since we won't be perfect for a thousand years after Armageddon, I don't think it would be a good idea to have a money system in place.  Everything Jehovah gave us on this earth was meant for us to enjoy for free - now we pay for everything except the air we breath (unless you are on oxygen).  It will be interesting to see if the new scrolls tell us how things like this will be done.

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If you think about it - money is really just a simple way to store the value of something.

 

For example - I own a goat and want to trade for corn, and you have corn, but want a dog that a certain person has (and you know he is looking for a goat). So I have to go to that person and trade my goat - so, I can go to you and get the corn by giving you the dog. IF it was really that simple   :nope:

 

Wouldn't it be simpler if some value were placed on  my goat - say 20 Gira - and you wanted a dog that also had a value placed on it of 20 Gira. I just give you the 20 Gira, you give me the corn. Then you go get the owner of the dog whenever you were around the person who has it. There was no need for us to go around looking for what you want, that that person wants, that some other person wants and we all do some massive trade. 

 

Money is just a simple portable way to place a value on an item. It is NOT evil. In our yearly Bible reading - we just read of how Jehovah placed certain values on things so the value could be carried and placed at the temple rather than the specific item. It is much easier to carry 30 pieces of silver than 5 sheep (as an example- AND way less pooping   :eek: ). AND since there wouldn't be any counterfeiting in the New World as we all would be honest - this becomes a really easy way to trade.

 

EDIT: we might have some simple way to place value on items with some portable means to hold that value (note - today we call that "money" ) BUT, I still doubt that there would be "lending" of such. 


Edited by trottigy
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Wouldn't it be simpler if some value were placed on  my goat - say 20 Gira - and you wanted a dog that also had a value placed on it of 20 Gira. I just give you the 20 Gira, you give me the corn. Then you go get the owner of the dog whenever you were around the person who has it. There was no need for us to go around looking for what you want, that that person wants, that some other person wants and we all do some massive trade. 

 

I think it is even simpler if:  You want a goat?  You need a goat?  Here, have a goat.  You want some corn?  You need some corn?  Here, have some corn.  

 

Meanwhile we're doing the best we can to be a good contributing member of society.  Even if our contribution is art or music or babysitting someone's children while they are busy getting a goat and corn.  As long as you are doing something for the betterment of your neighbor/community/rest of humanity, then you will be provided with everything you want and need.

 

So you grow corn and you can't roof a house.  Someone else doesn't want corn but can roof a house.  That's fine.  He'll roof your house and you give your corn to someone that needs corn.  Your roofer will get his new jazz album from someone that records jazz.

 

I imagine our economy will be based on the Golden Rule.  Do to others as you want them to do to you. Not barter.  Not trade.  You simply do good for someone else.  

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 Like I'm going to trade chocolate for a gun in the NW? Oh wait!! There will be no guns in the NW! So that means I don't have to trade my chocolate.

 

WAIT - you would trade away your chocolate???

 

I do NOT believe it!!!   :lol1:

 

How about for some bacon?? Wait!! NOPE, I wont trade any of that for anything   :lol1: It will be like GOLD!!!


Edited by trottigy
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