Shooting in California

[Ahuvah]

Thank you. ...

 

Pleasure lol ... a knife is made for other things like creating beautiful meals ... a handgun is made to shoot things. Even if a brother rightfully has one for target practice ... to use it for self defence, he would have to know the attackers are coming to retrieve it and load it.

[Ahuvah]

That's not true on the knives, there are knives of all kinds, not just kitchen knives and several brothers carry pocket knives that are not for cutting steak.

 

Pocket knives are utility knives used for convenient use as an alternative to kitchen knives. I carry one often too ...  to open jars/bottles and things has it has a can opener in it and a corkscrew.

 

I certainly would not think of using it for self defense. 

[Ahuvah]

That's not true on the knives, there are knives of all kinds, not just kitchen knives and several brothers carry pocket knives that are not for cutting steak.

 

Well it's an offense in New Zealand to carry a concealed weapon - so anything that isn't used for utility purposes is breaking the law here.

[Nobody]

Where are the moderators! Someone needs to straighten this out.

 

Jerry, I am sorry if it looks like I'm messing with you.

 

Going back to lurk mode.

[Trina]

Pocket knives are utility knives used for convenient use as an alternative to kitchen knives. I carry one often too ...  to open jars/bottles and things has it has a can opener in it and a corkscrew.

 

I certainly would not think of using it for self defense.

You must not have any experience with guns, people get very fast at it, it's not hard to load...

Also, it would depend on the reason a person purchased the knife as well, it would have to have been purchased for another reason. But to know the reasons person would have a handgun or knife is something someone else could not judge. Some people collect handguns because they are worth money too, such as antiques. Guns are used for many reasons too, such as hunting and you can use any kind you want for hunting, some do better than others for certain places but saying a person only has a hand gun for shooting another person is prejudging and I don't think it's very loving.

[Ahuvah]

Where did I say that Catrina? We can't use just any kind of gun for hunting here no, I can only tell you what we do in New Zealand. We aren't allowed to use handguns for hunting here. We would be arrested.

 

We aren't even allowed to store the bolt and rifle together in our private homes and when travelling they have to be stored separate until we actually use them for game. So yes I do have experience in hunting guns, but as I've said above a few times handguns aren't an issue here at all. I guess it's an issue in America.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Stormswift

[Ahuvah]

You must not have any experience with guns, people get very fast at it, it's not hard to load...

Also, it would depend on the reason a person purchased the knife as well, it would have to have been purchased for another reason. But to know the reasons person would have a handgun or knife is something someone else could not judge. Some people collect handguns because they are worth money too, such as antiques. Guns are used for many reasons too, such as hunting and you can use any kind you want for hunting, some do better than others for certain places but saying a person only has a hand gun for shooting another person is prejudging and I don't think it's very loving.

I would never judge another for owning a gun. The only thing I have commented is using it as a premeditated form of self defense in line with what the Watchtower said.

[tekmantwo]

I would never judge another for owning a gun. The only thing I have commented is using it as a premeditated form of self defense in line with what the Watchtower said.

And this is a fair and balanced approach to this sticky subject. We all would do well to be as objective and fair...

[Trina]

I didn't mean to take anything out of context either, I thought someone said that if a brother owned a handgun they would not be extended privileges in the hall because there is no reason a person would have a handgun was to harm a human...I must have taken that wrong.

I found several articles on why men carry knives and the majority are for protection. Here is an example...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/18/ukcrime2

[Ahuvah]

Thanks Trina - appreciated. Excuse me though if I don't look at your link - that is the worlds view - not Jehovah's.

[Trina]

Sorry if I didn't understand sister Mandi.

Anyways, we need the new system to straighten out this world it is too difficult to deal with. I know all of our brothers and sisters mean well and would hate to have to even defend themselves in any manor.

[Ahuvah]

I agree wholeheartedly, this system is so hateful and debased. This topic will be a thing of the past soon. 

[cricket246]

Sorry if any of my posts hurt or offended anyone. I meant no harm and sometimes people with varying can begin to sound like their debating without realizing out, so my sincere sorry if I sounded that way... The funny thing is I won't own a gun because I don't want to kill anyone, but I have a few knives I collect but IF someone tried to physically assault me I would probably just grab whatever was closest to protect myself. Probably a lamp or body spray lol.

[Ahuvah]

Sister Natasha, we were having an interesting conversation, we should be able to, as adults converse with differing points of view and still remain friends at the end of it. I enjoyed your input.

[AH173]

So in your congregation, if a Brother has a handgun, he is not going to get privileges? How do you "setup" a gun for target practice?

 

And you are not not willing to kill your "fellow man" as you watch your wife get raped? Trying to get some perspective here.

 

 

First off I apologize for hijacking a thread.

 

But getting away from the whole gun issue, if I kill someone protecting myself or family, what difference does the way I do it matter? And how can anyone not have some preconceived idea as to how they would protect their family if.... happened?

 

From doing some cursory research:

1986-2014 Index

GUNS

(See also Weapons)

armed employment:

Witness court victory (Brazil): g94 10/8 28

 

Bible view:

guns as protection: w98 12/15 22

 

in home: g92 5/8 28; g90 5/22 9

danger in home: g 5/08 29; g95 3/8 28; g92 5/8 28; g90 5/22 9; g90 10/8 30; g89 5/22 14; g86 10/8 30; g86 12/8 29

 

danger of owning: g92 1/8 28; g90 5/22 8-9

 

danger of use for self-defense: g99 11/22 28-29; g91 7/8 12-13

 

discussion: g90 5/22 2-11; g90 10/8 30

 

armed employment given up: w89 10/15 24-26

 

no real protection: g 8/10 30

 

Weapons 1986-2014 Index

Christian view:

armed employment: w05 11/1 31; w05 12/15 30

carrying weapons for self-defense: g95 9/22 13-14

weapons formed against “will have no success” (Isa 54:17): w08 9/15 7-8; w08 11/15 28; w07 12/15 21-25; ip-2 229-230

 

personal:

self-defense: g95 9/22 13-14

 

Guns 1930-1985 index

Christian view:

carrying guns: w84 3/1 13-15

congregation’s view if a Witness keeps firearms for protection against humans: w83 7/15 25

keeping guns: w83 7/15 23-25

use of arms in civilian employment: w83 7/15 25-26; w73 127-128

 

self-defense: w84 3/1 13-15; w83 7/15 23-24; g79 10/22 10-11; g75 9/8 28; g75 11/22 12, 29; g75 12/8 28

benefits of not keeping guns: w85 7/1 23

 

 

From reading some of these references, there is a heavy leaning on Isaiah 2:4, Romans 12:18, and Matthew 26:52.

 

An appointed brother could be guilty of being a 'smiter' thereby disqualifying one for privilege of service.

 

Its a lot of reading. I'm glad I've kept my decision not to have a firearm in my home/possession. When I was a MS , I did the research then and I'm glad this topic brought be back to my firm decision.

 

On the subject of sexual assaults/rape, there are ongoing matters in the Uzbekistan area where ones are sexually assaulting women in the congregation (as talked about on Forum18.org). If one had a gun, in the scope of persecution of  women / sisters/ or wife(in congregation/home), will a man/husband be fulfilling the scriptural obligations as mentioned above and many more?

 

http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2125

Edited December 8, 2015 by AH173

[Old]

Catrina,

First I was citing the training of military and police. If they draw their weapon they have to be prepared to kill.

No winging, no shooting the gun out of someone's hand.

If you have a handgun and are prepared to fire it in self defense you are prepared to take a human life. This fact is much denied, but not by people who are trained in law enforcement or by the military. To deny that you are denying the experts. Any of our brothers that have been trained will most likely agree.

I know of one brother in our congregation who denies this. He has glock, he has never had training of any sort but is sure his method of defense is the best.

[Musky]

Where are the moderators! Someone needs to straighten this out.

Jerry, I am sorry if it looks like I'm messing with you.

Going back to lurk mode.

We're having a grand time just watching everybody go round in circles.

[Trina]

And by the way, I respect every single opinion in the post. It's been a fun discussion for sure. Much love to all of you!

[Old]

Where are the moderators! Someone needs to straighten this out.

 

Jerry, I am sorry if it looks like I'm messing with you.

 

Going back to lurk mode.

No harm, no foul!

[Trina]

Catrina,

First I was citing the training of military and police. If they draw their weapon they have to be prepared to kill.

No winging, no shooting the gun out of someone's hand.

If you have a handgun and are prepared to fire it in self defense you are prepared to take a human life. This fact is much denied, but not by people who are trained in law enforcement or by the military. To deny that you are denying the experts. Any of our brothers that have been trained will most likely agree.

I know of one brother in our congregation who denies this. He has glock, he has never had training of any sort but is sure his method of defense is the best.

Brother Jerry, that is what the civilians are fighting the police about in various cities throughout the U.S. The legal issue is that those who are highly trained must be able to control themselves in any situation including life threatening situations by shooting in a non lethal location on the body such as legs to stop them. They argue that there is no reason for using deadly force against humans when they are capable of hitting other areas to stop the situation from elevating. And some are being prosecuted for killing because of this.

[Qapla]

This thread is now 195 posts long (10 pages on my computer) and still going - as is the debate by many in and out of the Truth when it comes to guns.

 

I had this thought:

 

Imagine the world being so full of violence that no one is safe anywhere, anytime. That the overwhelming majority of those walking the streets have bad intentions and thoughts on their minds all the time. That there are those who do anything they want to anyone they want with no regard for rules, laws or others feelings. That those who do these things do so with total freedom and lack of repercussions. In fact, many people look up to them as someone to be admired. If they own a weapon, they cary it openly and use it whenever they desire to and no one stops them.

 

Sounds scary, right?

 

Well, there was such a time. It was so bad that the only solution was to wipe all mankind off the face of the earth - except for 8 people ..... and, there were no guns involved.

 

Taking the guns away will NOT make this system safe. It was not Safe in Noah's day, and will not be  safe here, with or without guns, until the same person who fixed it then fixes it now.

[cricket246]

:wub:Thanks Mandi! Same Here

[tekmantwo]

I had this thought:

  was not Safe in Noah's day, and will not be  safe here, with or without guns, until the same person who fixed it then fixes it now.

Exactly. ..

[tekmantwo]

 

Jerry, I am sorry if it looks like I'm messing with you.

 

Going back to lurk mode.

Absolutely not!..That is clearly unacceptable! .

It is very clearly pointed out in your New Member Handbook that once unlurked, you are not permitted to relurk. Don't want to be gettin yourself in trouble now do ya?...Do stay out in the light and play, it's much more fun when all participants participate. ..

[Nobody]

Absolutely not!..That is clearly unacceptable! .

It is very clearly pointed out in your New Member Handbook that once unlurked, you are not permitted to relurk. Don't want to be gettin yourself in trouble now do ya?...Do stay out in the light and play, it's much more fun when all participants participate. ..