Raising Children...

[Luezette]

We all have pet peeves, at least opinions. And one of mine is blaming parents for all the wrong that their children do. 

I feel that though parents certainly do have a degree of responsibility for their children's actions or behavior, they certainly should not be held responsible for all wrong behavior their children commit.

For instance, what about the parents who teach their children to respect authority, and not only that, but practice respect toward authority figures themselves? Yet their children, time and again, disrespect such authority by, seemingly on a small level, by disrespecting teachers? Reports all over the world are rampant with children talking back to their teachers, even hitting the teachers. 

In the above cases and even worse cases, I fail to see how such actions are solely the parents fault as if they failed to raise their children properly, especially when the parents toiled with their children, and set the proper example.

I like to use the example of our God and heavenly father Jehovah. He is, and always will be the perfect example of a good parent! 

Sooo, if parents are always at fault when a child misbehaves even in the form of committing a crime, I ask: what was Jehovah's problem? Why did his first human children commit the crime of stealing something that didn't belong to them? Was or did Jehovah lack something? Did he not make it plain and clear that they were not to eat from that tree? So I ask again: What was Jehovah's problem?

Well, we know the answer to that one don't we? Yes, we do. We know that Adam and Eve were free moral agents with the ability to do decide to do whatever they felt like doing, and all the while knowing the consequences of their actions. Oh yeah we also know about that enemy of Jehovah called Satan. But even with that influence on Adam and Eve's back, they still could have said "no" had they wanted to. But nooo, instead, to add insult to injury, they blamed Jehovah! 

Yes, there are parents who neglect to train their children it is true. But most parents really do put forth great effort to train their children to be honest, law abiding adults. 

So, I think that before people start pointing their fingers at the parents they need to consider "what was Jehovah’s problem?" Answer? None at all.

Children are free moral agents, able to decide if they want to do what is right. 

Just my thoughts. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Luezette

[tekmantwo]

7 minutes ago, Luezette said:

 

Just my thoughts. 

And some good ones at that. .

 

I have heard it said that raising children is the only job we will ever have where we are not responsible for the outcome. 

 

Like you said, Jehovah is the perfect parent, yet, He had a perfectly created angelic being rebel, taking with him a third of the angels as well as the 2 perfect humans. 

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

5 minutes ago, Luezette said:

Children are free moral agents, able to decide if they want to do what is right. 

 

As I parent, it is hard not to feel guilty when your child doesn't show disrespect for authority etc.  You know you've tried your hardest to train them, and we should feel confident that Jehovah at least understands what we have gone through in raising our kids.

 

Children are not free moral agents, though, until they reach some sort of maturity.  That is why they are under their parents' authority until they come of age and can manage on their own (whatever age that is).  Children are obligated to always respect their parents, even after they leave home, if they want to please Jehovah that is.

 

This is an interesting article on at what age your brain is actually mature.  You can see that they sure need a lot of parenting up until that point, if only they would let us.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/

 

Although brain development is subject to significant individual variation, most experts suggest that the brain is fully developed by age 25. For some people, brain development may be complete prior to age 25, while for others it may end after age 25.  The mid-20s or “25” is just an average age given as checkpoint for when the brain has likely become mature.

It may seem logical that those aged 18 to 25 are completely mature, the brain still is maturing – specifically the area known as the “prefrontal cortex.” Changes occurring between ages 18 and 25 are essentially a continued process of brain development that started during puberty. When you’re 18, you’re roughly halfway through the entire stage of development. The prefrontal cortex doesn’t have nearly the functional capacity at age 18 as it does at 25.

[Luezette]

3 minutes ago, tekmantwo said:

And some good ones at that. .

 

I have heard it said that raising children is the only job we will ever have where we are not responsible for the outcome. 

 

Like you said, Jehovah is the perfect parent, yet, He had a perfectly created angelic being rebel, taking with him a third of the angels as well as the 2 perfect humans. 

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot about 1/3 of the angels too. Thanks!

[Luezette]

1 hour ago, hatcheckgirl said:

 

As I parent, it is hard not to feel guilty when your child doesn't show disrespect for authority etc.  You know you've tried your hardest to train them, and we should feel confident that Jehovah at least understands what we have gone through in raising our kids.

 

Children are not free moral agents, though, until they reach some sort of maturity.  That is why they are under their parents' authority until they come of age and can manage on their own (whatever age that is).  Children are obligated to always respect their parents, even after they leave home, if they want to please Jehovah that is.

 

This is an interesting article on at what age your brain is actually mature.  You can see that they sure need a lot of parenting up until that point, if only they would let us.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/

 

Although brain development is subject to significant individual variation, most experts suggest that the brain is fully developed by age 25. For some people, brain development may be complete prior to age 25, while for others it may end after age 25.  The mid-20s or “25” is just an average age given as checkpoint for when the brain has likely become mature.

It may seem logical that those aged 18 to 25 are completely mature, the brain still is maturing – specifically the area known as the “prefrontal cortex.” Changes occurring between ages 18 and 25 are essentially a continued process of brain development that started during puberty. When you’re 18, you’re roughly halfway through the entire stage of development. The prefrontal cortex doesn’t have nearly the functional capacity at age 18 as it does at 25.

Thank you Lucy. 

And while I too love scientific reports such as the brain (which is why I love CSI's investigations, well any investigative shows really), there are limits. 

While at a mall one day during the time period when fights at a McDonald's restaurant were in vogue, the mall weren't allowing high school students in. Well that particular day while security were doing their best to maintain order, one security man was very stern with one young man with him getting in the security's face over and over with "I'M A MAN!" 

As I sat there watching it tickled me. Why? Well evidently the young man felt that because he was at least 18, maybe 21, no one is supposed to tell him what to do, especially preventing "a man" from doing as he pleases at a mall. 

Jehovah admonishes us to train our children, he even specifies an age, "from infancy" (as in the case of Timothy). He told the Israelites to congregate themselves, as well as their children to hear his laws, etc. He even gave us videos with Sophia and Caleb with their parents instructing them in Jehovah's ways. If we look closely or closer we see their parents while instructing them, expecting them to apply what they're taught. No, a one time job of instruction won't work, not even with we adults, so we have Jehovah instructing parents to "go on bringing them up in the discipline and admonition of Jehovah." There are, of course, other scriptures saying the same things, but different ways.

When we train our children, for example, to sit still and quietly at the meetings, we are incalculating in them respect for Jehovah and all that involves him. And what does Jehovah do concerning that training? He expects the children to be obedient. He lets the children know that yes indeed, they, at that young age must answer to Jehovah as he says at Eph. 6: 3 "so that it may go well with you..." Such "well with you" is not limited to spiritual things, but life in general.

So yes, though science is a great thing that even I love, it has it limits. Jehovah is telling us without spelling it out that even young children are free moral agents, capable of deciding for themselves what is right or wrong. Have you ever seen a child playing with his or her toys, then another child comes up, and wants to play with the toys? Now the first child has to decide what to do. Should or should he not share his toys? What to do? The decision, at that young age will be based on what he was taught. So he decides to share. That decision was based on him being a free moral agent, made and able to make decisions coupled with what he was taught. Now on the other hand if he witness his parents being stingy or always chooing other children away from their child, he may decide not to share, still being a decision that he made. 

Like I said, I absolutely love science! (Though not too much in a class setting, lol). I also love psychology and how the mind/ body works, and so love to read up on it. The library and Barnes & Noble are my favorite places outside of our meeting places. I'm dead serious!! To get in a conversation with people at those places is such a thrill I can't explain in words. Starbucks, Tea shops are other places. Oh man! And the village? Whew! Nothing but great conversations. I even met a professional dancer at the village one day. What a conversation we had! And in case you're wondering...nope it wasn't all witnessing. Just plain everyday talking about nothing but...stuff. Love it! 

Yet, though I like to do the above at times to unwind, relax, talking about Jehovah is still my vocation. 

And talking about Jehovah is a way to remind ourselves that we are indebted to him, even children, by our obedience because really we all, even children, owe him, though we will never be able to repay him.

I want to clarify something. Yes, the scriptures does say something about children being declared righteous on account of their parents. But, Jehovah still expects them to put into practice what their parents incalcated in them, and it doesn't always have to be spiritual things. 

For instance, when the parent teach their children to clean up after themselves after playing, they're being taught responsibility, even at the young age of 2/3/4 whatever. Sooo, that means then at 6 or 7 when in pre-k, or whatever, when it's time to put away their toys, they'll know they're free moral agents even though they may not see that in words, but they'll know that they have a responsibility in the class. Yes, and they're realize that from their teacher's reaction if they don't, they had a responsibility, and they failed in that responsibility. 

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Luezette

[Ahuvah]

I have to say when my two were disfellowshipped - they were in different congregations in different parts of the country, and not ONCE have any of the elders blamed us as parents, in fact we were told we had done what we could getting our children to baptism and as adults and free moral agents they made their own choices. Using your example in your first post about Jehovah being the parent of some rebellious kids too. 

 

The thing is as parents we DO feel guilty - doesn't make us so just because we feel we are - or maybe we are to   a point ... doesn't matter ... they still did what they did knowing full well the consequences and the actions they were taking were away from Jehovah and those who loved him.

 

I felt the example of Jehovah losing Satan and 1/3 of the angels, when I was at my lowest didn't help at all to be totally frank with you ... because there was no blame with Jehovah but as imperfect parents  we could not claim the same high moral ground he could - obviously.

 

But as time as gone on, and I HAVE to say there are a few who have withdrawn from us, which has given us the feeling they have deemed us 'bad association' because of what our kids have done, they haven't given us any other reason at least. But I'm happy that time will cure that, if Tom and I just be ourselves and continue in Jehovah's service.  But there are many who support us as well ... in fact more than have rejected us ... for that we are very thankful. 

 

So in line with Luezette's theme, I implore all who have parents of disfellowshipped children or children who have gone into the world to make them feel wanted and loved, because they are going through a rollercoaster of emotions ... emotions i think we have to go through to get to the other side, but one of those emotions is guilt, so take them in your arms (figuratively) and hug them with all your might because they need it ... I KNOW they are sitting in the congregation trying valaintly to listen to the information, ignoring the odd side glance from some, and the affection shown betwen mothers and daughters and sons, holding back tears. Please don't treat them as if they too did something wrong ... even if you don't mean to, it could compound their grief ... include them in your family event even, they really really need it. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Stormswift
Sorry for my edits: I always type first with my heart, then edit with my head - "Finding Forrester"

[Luezette]

(I need to go to bed. I don't know why, not really, I'm still up. It could be my bipolar is getting ready to act up as in the manic phase. Insomnia is a symptom). 

Anyway, there's a sister in our congregation who recently was reinstated (guiltily I think it was almost two months ago). 

Anyway, while she was still DF, I made it a point to treat her as the human being that she is. If I came in during the meeting, and found a seat but I had to pass her to get to the seat, I always said "excuse me." One day after sitting down and there was an empty seat between us where I put my things and she politely moved her things over a bit to accomodate mine, I thanked her. I made it a point to speak to her son who was there. Why these things? Well just because she was DF at that time didn't make her less human. Also, I remember my DFing days years ago (so now y'all know) and I remember some kindnesses the friends showed to me. Also, and this is really the main reason I did what I did towards her, remembering that Jehovah still loved her helped. DFing is an act of love from Jehovah. It's discipline yes, harsh discipline yes (I liken it to a spanking. The one with a switch you had to go out and get, and it had better not be a skinny one too). Yet Jehovah doesn't discipline anyone unless he loves them. So Jehovah never stopped loving my sister, me, and all those who were DF at some time in their life or is now. 

Yes, if we would just understand the purpose of discipline, we wouldn't shun those who were or are disciplined outside of Jehovah's instructions. 

I remember and will never forget one night my children and I were walking to the meetings (during my DFing period). I accepted it because really, it was my fault. Not happy about it, but keeping in mind that Jehovah still loved me helped me to bear it. 

Anyway, we saw one of the brothers driving by on his way to the meeting one night.  Then all of a sudden he stopped, motioned for us to get in, and away we went to the meeting. I was elated to say the least. After parking and getting out, I just said a very quiet "thank you." I'll never forget it. NEVER!!! That kindness helped me even more to at least TRY to prove myself worthy for Jehovah to take me back which he did in 2002!!! 

Jehovah is indeed worthy of every single effort we make. Even the effort of treating DF ones respectfully (within Jehovah's guidelines) because they're still humans, and Jehovah still loves them. He never stopped. He just took that strap and whooped their hinnies that's all. Yeah it hurts as all spankings do, but in the end it's beneficial. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Luezette

[Adelin]

The song of Christina Aguilera - Hurt brings me emotions. You would have reason to thank even an abusive parent ... how much more to a loving one. 

[DLM]

s he said 'living a double life". Things are better with him now but he still has not returned to Jehovah. I have to keep in mind, not everyone we study with becomes a Witness, why would expect more from our children. I guess because we are "parents" Even so, we keep it in our prayers and hope things turn around for them.

Edited October 23, 2017 by DLM

[Alexa]

Being a children, parents should be praised for their work which is underestimated. But I feel sorry when its my or child's fault that it is underestimated sis luezette

[Qapla]

While I fully understand what the OP was talking about - and I agree that parents are not always to blame for what their children do, here are some things I have noticed

• Many people blame the parents for anything their children do, even when those children are grown
• Many parents look past the things their kids do, no matter how bad, simply because they are their kids
• Parents are not always credited for the good things their kids do

Like Luezette said ...... just some of my thoughts

[dove]

 

Also it's often the children themselves that blame their parents for what they do even when grown..

[DLM]

On 10/22/2017 at 9:47 PM, DLM said:

 

Going back to reply to Luzette, I wrote a fairly long story about our experience but just as I was entering it, I hit the wrong key and lost most of it. I am going to try to rewrite it.

Several years ago at our assembly, the circuit Overseer gave a talk on local needs about our young people of which many had strayed. He asked what had Jehovah done wrong  that so many of his sons rebelled. We have done the best we can, then it is up to them. He said that we want them to come back, but if we don’t stay faithful who will they return to. Of our three children, two are serving Jehovah but one is not. His lack of interest in the truth was evident at an early age. All three of them was studied with, went to meetings and service, he even married a witness sister. He tried but he had many bouts with depression and eventually his marriage broke up and he was on the verge of suicide. His whole mental problem was because he said he had been 'living a double life” for all the years since he was young. He got medical help and time has passed so things are better with him now but he still has not returned to Jehovah and he has not remarried. I have to keep in mind, not everyone we study with becomes a Witness, why would expect more from our children. I guess because we are "parents" Even so, we keep it in our prayers and hope things turn around for them. I have always contended that we can “make them go to meetings” and we can “make them go in service” but we CANNOT make them a Jehovah’s Witness. Everyone has to serve Jehovah from his own heart. In my family, it was almost the same, there was only two children. me and one brother. I have served Jehovah all my life but he has been disfellowshipped for years and years. In his early life, he tried but it just wasn’t there for him. We just do the best we can.