Another Religious Killing

[Margaret]

This time in Texas, Church of Christ. Last time, New York, Jewish people at religious service in home. It’s getting close.

[My little flower]

45 minutes ago, Margaret said:

This time in Texas, Church of Christ. Last time, New York, Jewish people at religious service in home. It’s getting close.

https://www.rt.com/viral/477068-people-shot-church-white-settlement-texas/

[Thesauron]

https://www.rt.com/viral/477068-people-shot-church-white-settlement-texas/

RT is the media outlet of Putin’s government.

[Tia]

11 hours ago, Thesauron said:

RT is the media outlet of Putin’s government.

Bro. Johan,

Thanks for the heads up - I had no idea just googled it!

 

RT America is a U.S.-based pay television and internet-based news channel which is part of the

RT network, a global multilingual television news network based in Moscow, Russia, and funded by the Russian government.

Sister channel(s): RT International; RT France; ...

Dish Network: Channel 280 (SD); Washington, ...

Sling TV: Internet Protocol television

[BenJepthah]

Nonetheless, both events actually did happen. 

[AH173]

It's another sad situation that confronts the world.

 

I appreciate the good direction we have received from FDS on attendant training.

 

I would hope all publishers in every congregation have had a security policy in their congregations and have been trained as such.

 

If you don't think you have one please talk to your cobe or the MS designated as Attendant Servant.

 

It's a good thing.

[My little flower]

Though the source matters, but it happened 

[AH173]

20 hours ago, My little flower said:

https://www.rt.com/viral/477068-people-shot-church-white-settlement-texas/

I'm sure if anyone care about the legitimacy of the link you can simply go to nbc, abc, cbs, cnn, bbc and other credible sources of news and find out the clear facts.

 

Thank you for the information about this.

[Bek]

What surprised me was that several church-goers had handguns on them and one of them was quick enough to shoot the attacker who had already killed two parishioners within a few seconds. I presume if none of the church-goers had weapons, there would have been far more fatalities. 

 

What if such a madman like him does this kind of thing in a kingdom hall? How do brothers screen or prevent potential trouble-makers from entering our premises? Do brothers body-search all new male visitors at the entrance for weapons? Just too many questions. 

[AH173]

4 hours ago, Bek said:

How do brothers screen or prevent potential trouble-makers from entering our premises? Do brothers body-search all new male visitors at the entrance for weapons? Just too many questions

If you want an answer communicate with your cobe of the training that was provided to attendants.

[Bek]

22 minutes ago, AH173 said:

If you want an answer communicate with your cobe of the training that was provided to attendants.

I was just wondering out loud.  Where I live it is not easy to get a weapon's licence. So the number of gun owners is minuscule, but there are some who hate JWs and if necessary, they can use a knife or an ax to inflict harm. 

[BenJepthah]

6 hours ago, Bek said:

What surprised me was that several church-goers had handguns on them and one of them was quick enough to shoot the attacker who had already killed two parishioners within a few seconds. I presume if none of the church-goers had weapons, there would have been far more fatalities. 

 

What if such a madman like him does this kind of thing in a kingdom hall? How do brothers screen or prevent potential trouble-makers from entering our premises? Do brothers body-search all new male visitors at the entrance for weapons? Just too many questions. 

We have something far more effective. 

[AH173]

1 minute ago, BenJepthah said:

We have something far more effective. 

Sounds like a well trained attendant!

[Bek]

37 minutes ago, BenJepthah said:

We have something far more effective. 

Let assume there is an interested person who has been to a kingdom hall a few times, and one day he comes as usual. Then he gets up and starts shooting at those present. What can be done in such a situation? I don't really see any options unless such people are searched at the entrance for weapons. 

[Old]

1 hour ago, Bek said:

Let assume there is an interested person who has been to a kingdom hall a few times, and one day he comes as usual. Then he gets up and starts shooting at those present. What can be done in such a situation? I don't really see any options unless such people are searched at the entrance for weapons. 

Let's not.

Use of force is acceptable in such a situation, though not planned deadly force. Really no way to totally prevent some injury in such a scenario. Why contemplate such a scene?

[Miss Bea]

We did have an act of violence in our Kingdom Hall. 
A member of the congregation, whom we knew had mental issues, and was on psych meds, stabbed one of our elders. Twice. Ripped his arm open from elbow to wrist, then, left the knife imbedded in our dear brother.There were several of us who had enough training to know how to stop the bleeding, and handle the knife wound in a way that did not do more damage. ( We left it in the wound). 
It was after the meeting. It just dawned on me as my husband and I were talking about this latest incident that the poor sick brother had that knife with him during the meeting. (Our meeting) 
The families involved are still with us. Some have died a natural death, but, it will be a part of our history until Jehovah removes it from our minds. The ill brother was committed to an institution where he got help. He does come and visit, rarely, since his immediate family is a part of our congregation. 
I sort of think this was a unique event. Part of our spiritual family and all.

Now, our door is locked, and we have those cameras aimed at the parking lot. 
It is astounding for ones to be actually armed at an event that is religious. 
We know the answer to this mess. Jehovah’s Kingdom. 

[AH173]

3 hours ago, Bek said:

Let assume there is an interested person who has been to a kingdom hall a few times, and one day he comes as usual. Then he gets up and starts shooting at those present. What can be done in such a situation? I don't really see any options unless such people are searched at the entrance for weapons. 

 

26 minutes ago, Miss Bea said:

Now, our door is locked, and we have those cameras aimed at the parking lot. 

Still I would encourage you to speak with your cobe and/or attendant servant. The Branch should have encouraged your congreation to have a effective security plan for your kingdom hall. The cameras and locked doors at specified times are apart of the security plan. 

[ChocoBro]

7 hours ago, Miss Bea said:

I sort of think this was a unique event.

 

Actually, the same thing happened in Frankfurt several years ago. The brother, a bethelite, who got stabbed died on the scene after paramedics arrived, as far as I remember. The young interested person who suffered from mental health issues fled the scene and later jumped in front of a train. It was a terrible tragedy. 

 

There was a crazy situation that played out in Bielefeld a year before that where the opposing father of a sister entered a Hall armed with automatic firearms and with an imitation Samurai sword in the back of his car. His gun jammed when he wanted to open fire on the brothers, either because of a technical fault or because his glove got stuck in the trigger assembly. His motive was a "bestialic hate" for the Witnesses who had supposedly taken his daughter away from him.

 

 

8 hours ago, Old said:

 Why contemplate such a scene?

 

He asked because these things happen. We know Jehovah hates violence. But we also do not need to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry to stab or shoot us to death just because they are bad and we are good. Life is precious, and that means you have a responsibility to protect your brothers while at the same time not being a person of violence. How do you find that balance? That is the reason why you would contemplate such a scene.

 

10 hours ago, Bek said:

Let assume there is an interested person who has been to a kingdom hall a few times, and one day he comes as usual. Then he gets up and starts shooting at those present. What can be done in such a situation? I don't really see any options unless such people are searched at the entrance for weapons. 

Generally, there are brothers trained to handle such situations. But let's say the interested person is sat next to you when he opens the bag, and as your eyes move to the side, you catch a glimpse of his hand reaching into the bag for a gun.. What' would be the first thing to do? REACT QUICKLY. Pray the fastest and most intense prayer you have ever prayed as you scream as loud as you can "GUN!!!!" and then focus all your efforts on controlling the bag, weapon or weapon hand with both hands while shifting your weight so that the gun is moved away from the crowd.
 

That's the "simple" and quick answer to your question. But how do you respond when the guy next to you pulls out a knife? You respond COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY because getting close to him and trying to handle his knife can get you sliced to ribbons. An assault rifle is handled differently than a semi-automatic pistol is handled differently than a revolver.

 

So you see, every individual situation is different. I trained this stuff for years when I did martial arts before I came in the truth, so I know a great deal more about knives and firearms than you would expect a Witness with no military background to know. And what I can tell you is there is no simple solution. And I can tell you that bodyguards train this stuff for hours on a weekly basis in order to be razor-sharp and precise when reacting, but when they're on the job or walking in a supermarket, they are always aware of their surroundings. This is the kind of thing you can not expect of a brother doing security detail in a hall, to live a Jason-Bourne-style life because of the remote possibility of a terror attack.

 

11 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

We have something far more effective. 

I think this is cute. And it seems like Jehovah has often intervened in the past. But there have also been cases where he did not. And I refuse to acknowledge those cases as "Jehovah's will".

[JennyM]

We will have an emergency training at our khall soon. 

[AH173]

Bro Reuben, as I have mentioned to another brother on this topic, if you have any concerns about what if scenarios that you should directly communicate with your cobe or your chief attendant servant about your congregation security policy. I would hope that your congregation as mine have done had a local needs about the congregation security plan and that every last publisher is responsible for the overall security of the building and occupants at a meeting. 

 

The security policy is a confidential document that is apart of what the Branch trained attendants to identify and react to many situations that can occur. 

 

As dedicated baptized brothers and/or husbands our aim should be to encourage trust, love and unity for the congregation and not to rile up others with maybe true or not situations that rile up the friends.

 

To me it's like talking about Satan and the demons, we have need encouraged to imitate Jesus in that respect. 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by AH173
Image

[Bek]

@AH173, thanks for the explanation. Now I understand. It was not my intention to "rile up" anyone. It was just a genuine question of concern about a realistic situation that might arise anywhere at these precarious times.  

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Bek

[AH173]

I had thoughts like that before we were trained by the Branch. Rest assured, just have a simple discussion with chief attendant servant or cobe if the security plan wasn't discussed. I believe it was either spearheaded by Co or LDC brother for your region or straight from the branch or all of the above. 

[ChocoBro]

52 minutes ago, AH173 said:

I would hope that your congregation as mine have done had a local needs

 

 

No, we have not. But I will not talk about that here again because I know who is going to come out of hiding and start assaulting me for daring to ask questions about this when others are responible. It's happened before.

 

So can I just ask when you had this "local needs" part, was it a long time ago or more in the past 1-2 years?

[AH173]

It was within 6 months and as a servant body almost a year ago. 

 

Every time you go to the Kingdom Hall you should see some means of vigilance with the servant body that would indicate the security policy in use. 

7 minutes ago, ChocoBro said:

But I will not talk about that here again because I know who is going to come out of hiding and start assaulting me for daring to ask questions about this when others are responible. It's happened before

You should not fear man, whether in person or on line. I fear only Jehovah and Jesus and respect those with excercise authority in line with scriptural standards. It's your choice. 

[BenJepthah]

18 hours ago, Bek said:

Let assume there is an interested person who has been to a kingdom hall a few times, and one day he comes as usual. Then he gets up and starts shooting at those present. What can be done in such a situation? I don't really see any options unless such people are searched at the entrance for weapons. 

There are multiple layers of defense employed at any official gathering of Witnesses.  But for the sake of discussion I will take this out of the Kingdom Hall for just a moment. 

    I work in a Hospital. I have been trained to assess people. To detect the tells they unconsciously exhibit just before self harm or violence toward others. A person who may attempt a violent or disruptive act just about ALWAYS has tells. That is why the already rare shooting or stabbing events are not typically seen in a Hospital. Training.  

    Now apply the same type of training to Brothers and Sisters who already have had years of interaction with random individuals in the ministry.  We are already exceedingly good at reading people ( we are probably some of the best people on the planet at reading people). But , there is something more.

    Jehovah has set his Angels to also guard his people. Nothing will happen at a meeting or Convention that He Himself is not already aware of.  In fact , the primary purpose of Attendants is Not as guards. It is to provide a friendly , loving, assistance acting in union with Holy spirit. To look for ways to express Jehovah’s love.  If a person of ill intent is suspected, they are typically managed in a loving way. That loving manner tends to either calm them or in some cases they just leave. But in any event Jehovah’s active force neutralizes them. 

      Now think about it. How many of Jehovah’s people have actually been assaulted while attending a meeting?  When it does happen , it’s usually an official government action right?  Then it results in some great witness! And ultimately a demonstrated of Jehovah’s power. 

                     So no need to be overly concerned.

                 Jehovah Has Us well in His Care.