Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[BLEmom]

Technically wars don’t have to end for the leaders of the UN to have a big peace agreement where everyone agrees on a path forward. They would be so excited if they got everyone on the same page even on paper.
Right now you never get an “all in”.  You just get majorities. 
Imagine if the UN members had a big summit that actually was accepted by everyone….

Kind of like the Star Trek federation 😜

[Sofia]

9 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Technically wars don’t have to end for the leaders of the UN to have a big peace agreement where everyone agrees on a path forward. They would be so excited if they got everyone on the same page even on paper.
Right now you never get an “all in”.  You just get majorities. 
Imagine if the UN members had a big summit that actually was accepted by everyone….

Kind of like the Star Trek federation 😜

Peace summit is scheduled at UN in September 21st as usual every year 

Edited July 25 by Sofia

[BLEmom]

5 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Peace summit is scheduled at UN in September 21st as usual every year 

Yes I know. What I’m talking about is a special summit where everyone actually agrees on the same action plan. Usually some dissent or object or whatever to parts of things. 
If the Middle East, Russia, China, Ukraine ,UK and US plus other nations all came together and agreed on a real plan to solve their issues, that would be huge. Instead they all bicker and call each other names. 

[Osprey]

2 hours ago, Osprey said:

 

Well, I don't know... but this idea about magical miracles inspired by demons being performed during this time that would somehow help to convince people just sounds very strange to me. On one side seems like general population will be pushed into some atheistic direction by destroying religions, on the other side some miracles would help to convince them about P&S? I just don't understand this, maybe I am missing something.

 

To clarify my post, I'm not saying I don't believe it will happen. If our current understanding is correct, then it WILL happen. I just currently don't see how that puzzle fits into whole picture. But it just shows how limited my mind is 

Well, actually in relation to make some illusion of P&S I may imagine it to some degree. In any case it will be fascinating to see all of this unfold!

[Old]

I personally have always felt that the "saying peace and security" was a state of mind and not a declaration.

Our organization takes the stand that the exclamation mark indicates that it is more than people just 'saying' thus a proclamation.

Makes me wonder  wonder where the exclamation mark comes from since I don't see any indication of it in the Greek. Anyone have understanding on that?

[Ahuvah]

Typo? 😄 🤣 😂 

[Sofia]

29 minutes ago, Old said:

Makes me wonder  wonder where the exclamation mark comes from since I don't see any indication of it in the Greek. Anyone have understanding on that

The Bible hub states in diferent translations that the ones being destroyed would feel safe and secure immediately before it happened 

that’s the true meaning of the Greek.

Thats the reason that GB says that people would feel more safe than ever before BTG is destroyed

Though there s margin to believe that the ones that would feel Safe would be the victims of destruction.

I think that we will only fully understand it when it finally happens.

 

Edited July 25 by Sofia

[Ahuvah]

4 minutes ago, Sofia said:

The Bible hub states in diferent translations that the ones being destroyed would feel safe and secure immediately before it happened 

that’s the true meaning of the Greek.

Thats the reason that GB says that people would feel more safe than ever before BTG is destroyed

Though there s margin to believe that the ones that would feel Safe would be the victims of destruction.

I think that we will only fully understand it when it finally happens.

 

Makes perfect sense.

[trottigy]

Nothing I have seen in the world today is making anyone feel "safe and sound". No wonder the slave is saying - it is not happened yet.

 

But as others have noted - it is written and so it will happen. It just makes you wonder what it will look like.

[Ahuvah]

6 minutes ago, trottigy said:

Nothing I have seen in the world today is making anyone feel "safe and sound". No wonder the slave is saying - it is not happened yet.

 

But as others have noted - it is written and so it will happen. It just makes you wonder what it will look like.

I guess we are about to find out. Soon, or next year, or ... seatbelts on! Make them click!

[Dhanyel]

Who is gaining strength and says they are interested in making the world a safer place is NATO. Let's wait and see how events unfold.

[LeolaRootStew]

4 hours ago, BLEmom said:

Technically wars don’t have to end for the leaders of the UN to have a big peace agreement where everyone agrees on a path forward. They would be so excited if they got everyone on the same page even on paper.
Right now you never get an “all in”.  You just get majorities. 
Imagine if the UN members had a big summit that actually was accepted by everyone….

Kind of like the Star Trek federation 😜

 

I was going to comment the same thing. It could be right after this declaration of peace that WWIII goes into full swing and we start the GT with a bang.

[Lee49]

Harris says she ‘will not be silent’ on Gaza suffering while telling Netanyahu to get ceasefire deal done

 

 “it is time for this war to end and end in a way where Israel is secure, all the hostages are released, the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can exercise their right to freedom, dignity and self-determination.”

 “As I just told Prime Minister Netanyahu, it is time to get this deal done,” she said. “So to everyone who has been calling for a ceasefire, and to everyone who yearns for peace, I see you and I hear you.”

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/25/politics/harris-netanyahu-israel-hamas-ceasefire/index.html

[feebee]

10 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

I think it's because of the signs and wonders that will accompany it. Going back to the magic practicing priests in Moses time and Brother Schaefers talk. 

Bro Schaefer's talk was referring to the unclean inspired expressions that gather the nations to Armageddon. This isn't the same as P & S. The false prophet is the Anglo American WP.

[Ahuvah]

11 minutes ago, feebee said:

Bro Schaefer's talk was referring to the unclean inspired expressions that gather the nations to Armageddon. This isn't the same as P & S. The false prophet is the Anglo American WP.

He very clearly related it to P & S AND moving into the GT, so you are partially right.

Edited July 26 by Ahuvah

[Ahuvah]

1 hour ago, feebee said:

Bro Schaefer's talk was referring to the unclean inspired expressions that gather the nations to Armageddon. This isn't the same as P & S. The false prophet is the Anglo American WP.

Here you go, just a partial transcription of the first half of the talk to help you out Sis Fiona. 🌹 

The part in bold are MY comments, the rest is verbatim.

 

'And I saw  three inspired unclean expressions that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon and out of the mouth of the Wikd Beast  and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are in fact expressions inspired of demons and they perform signs and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth to gather them together to the Great Day of God the Almighty. And verse 16 says: and they, (these expressions)  gathered the kings of the entire inhabited earth to the place that is called I  Hebrew Armageddon.'

 

Expressions, now these must be very persuasive expressions because they compel not just a few isolated kings here and there, but the kings of the entire inhabited earth to the situation called Armageddon.

NB: The Anglo/American world power is part of 'the kings of the entire inhabited earth.'

 

These expressions, you notice, are unclean so they cannot originate with Jehovah,  and yet they are inspired  by demons, and yet their ultimate source is in the mouth of the Dragon - Satan the Devil, the Father of the Lie. But now, who actually gives voice to these expressions? Well notice in verse 13 that the expressions also come out of the mouths of the Wild Beast and the False Prophet- political entities of Satan’s world. So here we have unclean expressions inspired by demons originating with Satan, but voiced, repeated, parroted,  echoed by people who constitute Satan's  wicked world.

 

Below is where these unclean inspired expressions are applied to Peace and Security:

 

Now just what are these expressions that are so persuasive that they compel kings? What concept would be so compelling? Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead the entire inhabited earth, and one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans, that Satan's way of ruling is the best, that humans can actually achieve Peace and Security through their own systems and governments. Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 1-3, they will soon be saying that they actually achieved Peace and Security.

 Now adding to the power of these inspired expressions are the signs. The signs make it seem as if these expressions are actually coming true. Perhaps, that they even have the backing of God, but the only God backing these particular inspired expressions is the god of this system of things. 

Is it unprecedented that Satan the Devil would use miracles in an attempt to lend credibility to his ideas, his wicked lies? Exodus 7 verses 10 through 12, Jehovah empowers Aarons rod to become a snake, but Pharoahs magic practicing priests mimicked that very sign. Likewise they mimicked the first and the second other Ten Plagues. Okay, but what about after the Christian congregation came into existence? Paul indicated at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 that the  Apostate movement that eventually gave birth to the clergy of Christendom would be backed by 'the operation  of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders.' 2 Thessalonians 2:9. Moreover,Mark 13:22 says in the prophecy of the last days Jesus said: 'Moreover false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones.'  So clearly,  the demons teach, and it's not beyond Satan and the demons to back up their false claims with wonders at times. Although, obviously,  their power in that regard is limited."

[New World Explorer]

17 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

I guess we are about to find out. Soon, or next year, or ... seatbelts on! Make them click!

Can't click... panic attack! Too many donuts! LOL 

[Dustparticle]

 We know when they say P&S, then BT goes. When BT goes I hope Armageddon comes soon. Why? I live by a church that has their sprinkler on early in the morning. When my car gets a  little dirty, I park my car by the curve where the church at to get my car clean. Thank God for BT.

[Abigail]

7 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

Here you go, just a partial transcription of the first half of the talk to help you out Sis Fiona. 🌹 

The part in bold are MY comments, the rest is verbatim.

 

'And I saw  three inspired unclean expressions that looked like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon and out of the mouth of the Wikd Beast  and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are in fact expressions inspired of demons and they perform signs and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth to gather them together to the Great Day of God the Almighty. And verse 16 says: and they, (these expressions)  gathered the kings of the entire inhabited earth to the place that is called I  Hebrew Armageddon.'

 

Expressions, now these must be very persuasive expressions because they compel not just a few isolated kings here and there, but the kings of the entire inhabited earth to the situation called Armageddon.

NB: The Anglo/American world power is part of 'the kings of the entire inhabited earth.'

 

These expressions, you notice, are unclean so they cannot originate with Jehovah,  and yet they are inspired  by demons, and yet their ultimate source is in the mouth of the Dragon - Satan the Devil, the Father of the Lie. But now, who actually gives voice to these expressions? Well notice in verse 13 that the expressions also come out of the mouths of the Wild Beast and the False Prophet- political entities of Satan’s world. So here we have unclean expressions inspired by demons originating with Satan, but voiced, repeated, parroted,  echoed by people who constitute Satan's  wicked world.

 

Below is where these unclean inspired expressions are applied to Peace and Security:

 

Now just what are these expressions that are so persuasive that they compel kings? What concept would be so compelling? Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead the entire inhabited earth, and one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans, that Satan's way of ruling is the best, that humans can actually achieve Peace and Security through their own systems and governments. Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 1-3, they will soon be saying that they actually achieved Peace and Security.

 Now adding to the power of these inspired expressions are the signs. The signs make it seem as if these expressions are actually coming true. Perhaps, that they even have the backing of God, but the only God backing these particular inspired expressions is the god of this system of things. 

Is it unprecedented that Satan the Devil would use miracles in an attempt to lend credibility to his ideas, his wicked lies? Exodus 7 verses 10 through 12, Jehovah empowers Aarons rod to become a snake, but Pharoahs magic practicing priests mimicked that very sign. Likewise they mimicked the first and the second other Ten Plagues. Okay, but what about after the Christian congregation came into existence? Paul indicated at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 that the  Apostate movement that eventually gave birth to the clergy of Christendom would be backed by 'the operation  of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders.' 2 Thessalonians 2:9. Moreover,Mark 13:22 says in the prophecy of the last days Jesus said: 'Moreover false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones.'  So clearly,  the demons teach, and it's not beyond Satan and the demons to back up their false claims with wonders at times. Although, obviously,  their power in that regard is limited."

 

I agree he said this, but I would like to see the link reinforced in print as it has never been repeated since by him or anyone else.

Edited July 26 by Abigail

[vern]

I.ve been reminded of the need of false Christs to fullfill ptophecy lately.  Not prophets but poeple who.say they are Christ.  Jesus just says he will be as light like from east to west.

[trottigy]

19 hours ago, Doug said:

 

His talk had some very good points to think about.  The talk is already 6 years ago, and we know how fast things change.

 

One statement I wish could be clarified is at 3:20. Quote: "Moreover according to 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 they will soon be saying they have actually achieved peace and security."   Is this our current understanding?  'Achieved' in the present or past tense?

 

He made a strong case for "inspired expressions" that would be so compelling, so persuasive, as to "gather the kings of the entire inhabited earth" to the war of the great day of God the Almighty?  How could these demonic lies go unnoticed by Christians who are on the lookout for those very things?   I can't imagine we won't know as the prophesy unfolds in real time.  Maybe be can compare it to the pointed stakes that were placed around Jerusalem.  Very obvious.

 

Is there a transcript of Br Schafer's talk from 2018?

 

Just to reiterate, this is from the transcript of that talk:

 

Quote

Since 1914, Satan has been stepping up his efforts to mislead the entire inhabited earth, and one of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that humans, that Satan's way of ruling is the best, that humans can actually achieve Peace and Security through their own systems and governments. Moreover, according to 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verse 1-3, they will soon be saying that they actually achieved Peace and Security.

 Now adding to the power of these inspired expressions are the signs. The signs make it seem as if these expressions are actually coming true. 

 

And this is really just a repeat of the 2019 Watchtower that is the latest we have on this very thought of humans ACTUALLY ACHIEVING peace and security (and note - this is the same idea we've had of this for decades)

 

Hers is a Watchtower quote from 1987:

 

Quote

 Do not be caught off guard by any success that the nations may have in bringing peace. Always keep in mind that Jehovah is not using any of this world’s agencies toward that end. Jehovah has his own way of bringing true peace, and that is only by means of his Kingdom under Christ. So whatever success the nations may have in establishing peace, it will be brief ...

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1987364

 

Showing the idea that this will be more than just talk - it will look like "SUCCESS!", but brief.

 

And again the 2019 article:

 

Quote

When this happens, people may think that world leaders have succeeded in making the world a safer, more secure place. 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019602#h=9:0-11:0

 

 

[Mike047]

Reminders from the GB will become ever more important as we try to sift through the misinformation, and misleading inspired utterances that are given the look of truth. We must be ever vigilante.

[Ahuvah]

1 hour ago, trottigy said:

 

Just to reiterate, this is from the transcript of that talk:

 

 

And this is really just a repeat of the 2019 Watchtower that is the latest we have on this very thought of humans ACTUALLY ACHIEVING peace and security (and note - this is the same idea we've had of this for decades)

 

Hers is a Watchtower quote from 1987:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1987364

 

Showing the idea that this will be more than just talk - it will look like "SUCCESS!", but brief.

 

And again the 2019 article:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019602#h=9:0-11:0

 

 

Thank you Trottigy. 

[Ahuvah]

4 hours ago, Abigail said:

 

I agree he said this, but I would like to see the link reinforced in print as it has never been repeated since by him or anyone else.

I find it's good to remember that Morning Worships are taken from the Day's Text, which is backed up by WT etc, therefore it has already appeared in print. 

New direction or clarified understanding is always backed up after the fact in print. The August WT being a prime example.

I know I can trust what is either coming from the platform, by extension jw broadcasting and morning worships, or an older publication that is still current and hasnt been officially updated or clarified, because either they are the Slave or working close with them. 

 

I hear you if you've been trying to research with no avail ... I've just started a personal database to enter references of my own so I don't forget. Often when I'm transcribing there's a point I want to save as in this case. 

 

Lovely to meet you Abigail. 

[Doug]

1 hour ago, trottigy said:

 

Showing the idea that this will be more than just talk - it will look like "SUCCESS!", but brief.

 

 

 

 

So, it will be much more than just SAYING  peace and security.  There will also be the illusion of evidence.  LOOK!  Peace and security!  This illusion, fake veneer of success, will be "lying signs and wonders".   Providing the reason, the basis, for 1 Thess 5:3.

 

Br Schafer pointed to Exodus 7:10-12 where pharaoh's magic practicing priests mimic the sign Jehovah had performed.  But then the Aaron snake ate up the Pharaoh snake.  

Satan has, and will, use miracles in an attempt to lend credibility to his wicked peace and security lies.  "The operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception".

 

What is going to happen will draw all the kings of the earth together to destroy false religion and go to war with God himself.

 

The FDS has modestly said we may not fully understand the fulfillment until afterward.  True.  But that doesn't mean we won't realize that it's undergoing fulfillment, even if it happens suddenly and is of short duration. We just won't know how it all played out until afterward.