Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Dages]

IT has it for both the KotN and the KotS, but later literature, and the Daniel's prophecy book (chapter 10) is more for the KotS in this context (more recent than IT, 1988)

Edited October 23, 2023 by Dages

[Sofia]

  On 10/23/2023 at 3:00 PM, Dages said:

IT has it for both the KotN and the KotS, but later literature, and the Daniel's prophecy book (chapter 10) is more for the KotS in this context (more recent than IT, 1988)

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Exactly. GB shows the light with time.

It´s no point going back to old publocations we must seek newest first.

Take a look at this watchtower:

*** w22 May p. 10 par. 9 Revelation—What It Means for God’s Enemies ***
9 Revelation chapter 13 goes on to tell us that this seventh head, the Anglo-American World Power, also acts as a wild beast with “two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon.” This beast “performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.” (Rev. 13:11-15) Revelation chapters 16 and 19 describe this wild beast as “the false prophet.” (Rev. 16:13; 19:20) Daniel mentions something similar, namely, that the Anglo-American World Power would “bring terrible destruction.” (Dan. 8:19, 23, 24, ftn.) That is exactly what happened during World War II. The two atomic bombs that played a decisive role in ending that war in the Pacific were the results of a joint effort by British and American scientists. The Anglo-American World Power, in effect, made “fire come down out of heaven to the earth.”
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2022401&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=16

Edited October 23, 2023 by Sofia

[Paulo]

Dan 8:24,25 can also be a nice description of the US unipolar moment.

 

"He will bring terrible destruction, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin [...]
And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security (possibly, and without warning) he will bring many to ruin."

 

The last time the KOTS declared war was in 1942.
Nevertheless, and without considering its operations in the rest of the world, since "the U.S. post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, and Pakistan [...] an estimated 432,093 civilians in these countries have died violent deaths as a result of the wars. [...] an estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones. The total death toll in these war zones could be at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting, though the precise mortality figure remains unknown."

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human

[Cushi]

  On 10/23/2023 at 5:41 AM, New World Explorer said:

Great Tribulation length - unspecified. 

In contrast: 

Armageddon is basically execution, and it's gonna be very swift. Jehovah has enough angles to position them around the world and give command to act  at once. Jehovah does not take pleasure to see suffering of those executed, therefore its logical to conclude that the length of Armageddon will be very short. 

 

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That’s what I’ve always believed. I never believed it would be some long drawn out process, which is why I jokingly said what I said.

[Old]

  On 10/22/2023 at 11:21 PM, Stormswift said:

Synonyms & Similar 

• ruling
• edict
• pronouncement
• promulgation
• notice
• signification
• announcement
• utterance
• fiat
• rescript
• pronunciamento
• annunciation
• bull
• notification
• communiqué
• advertisement
• ukase
• bulletin
• ad
• posting
• message
• diktat
• release
• billing
• broadcast
• advertising
• report
• advert
• telecast
• newscast
• promotion
• communication
• campaign
• come-on
• commercial
• dispatch
• pitch
• propaganda
• publicity
• blurb
• word
• spot
• cablecast
• buildup
• plugola
• promo
• boost
• plug
• ballyhoo

The above are synonyms for 'proclamation', while we all tend towards something like a ruling or a pronouncement. Other alternatives could also fit. A plug for peace? Propaganda is there. My personal favourite 'ballyhoo'

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I don't see 'saying' on your list, why is that?

Edited October 23, 2023 by Old
too sleepy

[Ysaias]

  On 10/23/2023 at 3:00 PM, Dages said:

IT has it for both the KotN and the KotS, but later literature, and the Daniel's prophecy book (chapter 10) is more for the KotS in this context (more recent than IT, 1988)

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Very good point, thanks.

 

But I thought that the references are ordered from newest to oldest after the string "Publications Index" (at bottom of image.) IT is revised periodically. In Spanish I have 1991, 2016, 2020. In JWL Printed on July 2022. That's why I considered it as a 'fresher' reference compared to DP book. IT even has the newest "Gog" meaning.

 

The good thing is, we will soon witness all of this happening live.

 

[Cushi]

  On 10/23/2023 at 1:21 PM, Abigail said:

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&prefer=lang&bible=27008025&pub=nwtsty

 

I also wonder if this verse in Daniel could be prophetically referring to a cry of peace in the future ...

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Thanks. I was looking for this verse. I’ve wondered the same thing 🤔 

[truce]

  On 10/23/2023 at 1:45 PM, Abigail said:

 

It's thanks to the 2013 translation. 

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Yes, the older version used to say "freedom from care" instead of "security".

[Ahuvah]

  On 10/23/2023 at 4:18 PM, Old said:

I don't see 'saying' on your list, why is that?

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Because I searched synonyms for 'proclamation ' which is the term the FDS is using. Let's do a search for sayings and see if there are common synonyms. 

 

Here's a short list and it's interesting.  On my way to carts or I'd do more.

 

telling.

talking.

uttering.

speaking.

discussing.

stating.

sharing.

announcing.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Stormswift

[Ahuvah]

Just a side point or is it? Not sure. (Too early lol) Brother Jerry, the usual meaning of 'saying' is made more urgent or at least more emphatic by adding the exclamation mark at the end of that scripture in Thessalonians. 

[Dhanyel]

China’s special envoy is on a Middle East mission. Peace is just part of the picture

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/23/china/china-middle-east-envoy-mediation-intl-hnk/index.html

[computerwiz]

All I gotta say is you really have to wonder about this combination:

• Regional Convention theme: Declare the good News
  • It has been said the end will come at our busiest.
  • Anyone thinking "last call!" or "one final big push for studies"?
• Reporting changes - Only # that matters is Bible Studies (except for pioneers/COs)
  • What do they want us to focus our energy on?
  • Again, do you get the feeling "last call!  Hurry and join!"???
• Year text - "When I am afraid, I put my trust in you"
  • Would they really choose such a year text about fear for the WHOLE worldwide organization due to a couple of regional wars?
  • For about the past 5 years, it seems the year text has basically been prophetic.  Within a year, we saw exactly why it was chosen, and boy was it applicable!  That being the case....what will make the WHOLE organization afraid?  🤔🤔🤔
• There have been many articles lately about preparing for the GT or persecution.
  • Jehovah prepares us well in advance.
  • It seems that the things the FDS warns us about is usually 1-3 years ahead of its time.  Remember when they told us to simplify?  Just before major economic headwinds?  Well....the clock is ticking fast for these latest warnings!!  👀

 

Just some observations.  Seems like the GT is right around the corner!!    But always keep in mind:

 

Proverbs 13:12 - Expectation postponed makes the heart sick...

 

So be excited....but don't live with a date in mind.  

 

[Ahuvah]

Well it's going to happen sometime isn't it? It wouldn't take much at all to tip things on the world wide stage into chaos.. already is in many parts.  All we need to do is endure 

[Tortuga]

  On 10/23/2023 at 5:43 PM, computerwiz said:

• Jehovah prepares us well in advance.
• It seems that the things the FDS warns us about is usually 1-3 years ahead

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OTOH, Zephaniah warned the Jews about Jehovah's Day 40 years before it happened in 607. 🤣

[truce]

  On 10/23/2023 at 5:58 PM, Tortuga said:

OTOH, Zephaniah warned the Jews about Jehovah's Day 40 years before it happened in 607. 🤣

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And Jehovah’s organization has been warning us and preparing us for over 100 years!

[computerwiz]

  On 10/23/2023 at 5:58 PM, Tortuga said:

OTOH, Zephaniah warned the Jews about Jehovah's Day 40 years before it happened in 607. 🤣

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“I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time.”—ISAIAH 60:22.

 

We get our prophecies much closer to the real deal now.  😜 

[Dhanyel]

OCTOBER 23, 2023
ISRAEL

Armed Conflict Continues in Israel and the Gaza Strip

https://www.jw.org/en/news/region/israel/Armed-Conflict-Continues-in-Israel-and-the-Gaza-Strip/

[Dolce vita]

  On 10/23/2023 at 5:43 PM, computerwiz said:

Tout ce que je dois dire, c'est qu'il faut vraiment s'interroger sur cette combinaison :

• Thème du congrès régional :  Déclarer la bonne nouvelle
  • Il a été dit que la fin viendrait au moment le plus chargé.
  • Quiconque pense « dernier appel ! » ou « un dernier grand coup de pouce pour les études » ?
• Signaler les changements – Seul # qui compte concerne les études bibliques (sauf pour les pionniers/OC)
  • Sur quoi veulent-ils que nous concentrions notre énergie ?
  • Encore une fois, avez-vous le sentiment de « dernier appel ! Dépêchez-vous et rejoignez-nous ! » ???
• Texte de l'année - "Quand j'ai peur , je te fais confiance"
  • Choisiraient-ils vraiment un texte d'une telle année sur la peur pour l'ensemble de l'organisation mondiale à cause de quelques guerres régionales ?
  • Depuis environ 5 ans, il semble que le texte de l’année ait été fondamentalement prophétique. En un an, nous avons compris exactement pourquoi il avait été choisi, et bon sang, était-ce applicable ! Ceci étant le cas... qu'est-ce qui fera peur à TOUTE l'organisation ?   🤔 🤔 🤔
• Il y a eu de nombreux articles récemment sur la préparation au GT ou à la persécution .
  • Jéhovah nous prépare longtemps à l'avance .
  • Il semble que les choses contre lesquelles les FDS nous mettent en garde sont généralement en avance de 1 à 3 ans sur leur temps. Vous vous souvenez quand ils nous ont dit de simplifier ? Juste avant des vents contraires économiques majeurs ? Eh bien... l'horloge tourne vite pour ces derniers avertissements !!  👀

 

Juste quelques observations. On dirait que la GT est au coin de la rue !!    Mais gardez toujours à l’esprit :

 

Proverbes 13:12 - L'attente reportée rend le cœur malade...

 

Alors soyez excité... mais ne vivez pas avec un rendez-vous en tête.  

 

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Well, well there! Brother Jérémie cut off the head of my tongue. Nothing more to add.

[Dhanyel]

  On 10/23/2023 at 7:12 PM, Dhanyel said:

OCTOBER 23, 2023
ISRAEL

Armed Conflict Continues in Israel and the Gaza Strip

https://www.jw.org/en/news/region/israel/Armed-Conflict-Continues-in-Israel-and-the-Gaza-Strip/

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What a joy to know that the brothers are all well! Thanks be to Jehovah!

[Amygdala]

  On 10/23/2023 at 3:42 PM, Sofia said:

Daniel mentions something similar, namely, that the Anglo-American World Power would “bring terrible destruction.” (Dan. 8:19, 23, 24, ftn

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Totally neutral here, but does anyone slightly entertain the thought that Trump might actually win the next presidency? J/K 😜

 

The one spoken of in Dan.8:25 could still be changed, as normally clearer understanding of prophecy comes after events have occurred…

Edited October 23, 2023 by Amygdala

[Dages]

  On 10/23/2023 at 7:56 PM, Amygdala said:

Totally neutral here, but does anyone slightly entertain the thought that Trump might actually win the next presidency? J/K 😜

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His previous presidency was very peaceful. It would be surprising

[Dustparticle]

  On 10/23/2023 at 7:56 PM, Amygdala said:

 

Totally neutral here, but does anyone slightly entertain the thought that Trump might actually win the next presidency? J/K 😜

 

The one spoken of in Dan.8:25 could still be changed, as normally clearer understanding of prophecy comes after events have occurred…

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You cannot change the past or the future too. No matter who wins the next election, the Anglo-American Power has destroyed many lands through the years.

[Dustparticle]

  On 10/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, Paulo said:

Dan 8:24,25 can also be a nice description of the US unipolar moment.

 

"He will bring terrible destruction, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin [...]
And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security (possibly, and without warning) he will bring many to ruin."

 

The last time the KOTS declared war was in 1942.
Nevertheless, and without considering its operations in the rest of the world, since "the U.S. post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, and Pakistan [...] an estimated 432,093 civilians in these countries have died violent deaths as a result of the wars. [...] an estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones. The total death toll in these war zones could be at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting, though the precise mortality figure remains unknown."

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human

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The have destroyed Laos too during the Vietnam War. 

[Amygdala]

Just re-read ch.17 of the Pure Worship book.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/pure-worship/survives/identity-gog-of-magog/

 

This 2015 QFR has a chart and a description of the identity of Gog of Magog.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20150515/gog-of-magog/

 

  Quote

Who, then, is Gog of Magog? To answer that question, we need to search the Scriptures to find out who attacks God’s people. The Bible speaks not only of the attack by ‘Gog of Magog’ but also of the attack by “the king of the north” and of the attack by “the kings of the earth.” (Ezek. 38:2, 10-13; Dan. 11:40, 44, 45; Rev. 17:14; 19:19) Do these represent separate attacks? Not likely. The Bible is no doubt referring to the same attack under different names. Why can we draw that conclusion? Because the Scriptures tell us that all the nations of the earth will be involved in this final attack that prompts the war of Armageddon.—Rev. 16:14, 16.

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So it appears the KoN is the main player here at the end.

[Tortuga]

  On 10/23/2023 at 7:56 PM, Amygdala said:

Totally neutral here, but does anyone slightly entertain the thought that Trump might actually win the next presidency?

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I'm not voting for him...