Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[hatcheckgirl]

25 minutes ago, Frances Bennett said:

A little Google actions shows this pattern is being repeated around the world. Australia, New Zealand, Portugal...the people are anxious about agreeing to it...the governments say nope, "it'll be fine"

I don’t see what the fuss is about, Francis. I found the petition  to the Australian government you referred to, contributed by 273 petitioners. And there are thousands more petitions about everything else from climate change to Aboriginal rights.

 

For us, it makes no difference what people petition about. Jehovah controls things, and has his timetable. We have clear direction to keep our focus on his agenda. The preaching work keeps us busy and focused, when we could otherwise become distracted by political cries and disinformation. 
 

I don’t doubt you are keeping an eye on world events just as we all want to understand where we are in the stream of time. Just that I don’t understand how the issue of the UN “telling” governments what to do should bother us. It doesn’t involve us what they do to governments. Aren’t we neutral? 
 

During the pandemic, this is the sort of talk that inspired those “sovereign citizens” who disregarded the government’s directives because it was against their “rights”. We are spared all that angst, thankfully. Jehovah has told us to just obey Caesar and give God's things to God. For me, that as simple as I need it. Let the UN do what it wants, Jehovah has it in hand.

[Sofia]

Personally I don’t imagine Peace and security announcement without the defeat of the KOTN 

🤔

Russia doesn’t give up on Ukraine 

Iran doesn’t give up on Israel 

KOTS defends both Ukraine and Israel 

[Michelle112]

It's like watching a game of chess only,Jehovah is the chess master. 😉

[bagwell1987]

I've been thinking that perhaps with Israel/Palestine Russia/Ukraine  and the associated countries for both, if they decide on a truce of sorts, make steps toward that then maybe that could make people feel we have a chance for peace. We're so far from any peaceful resolution that a substantial step toward that end may cause a call for (lie) P&S.

Just a random thought, look forward to hindsight, my favorite kind of sight 🙂

[New World Explorer]

2 hours ago, bagwell1987 said:

I've been thinking that perhaps with Israel/Palestine Russia/Ukraine  and the associated countries for both, if they decide on a truce of sorts, make steps toward that then maybe that could make people feel we have a chance for peace. We're so far from any peaceful resolution that a substantial step toward that end may cause a call for (lie) P&S.

Just a random thought, look forward to hindsight, my favorite kind of sight 🙂

(Speculation) I think pressure will be put on finding "real" solution in Israel's war (two state solution?) 

Possibly they will succeed.

This will embolden them to solve the Ukrainian war well (stationing there UN military force?) 

I have no idea ..but what I am saying is that Israel could be a stepping stone. 

 

[JennyM]

4 minutes ago, New World Explorer said:

(Speculation) I think pressure will be put on finding "real" solution in Israel's war (two state solution?) 

Possibly they will succeed.

This will embolden them to solve the Ukrainian war well (stationing there UN military force?) 

I have no idea ..but what I am saying is that Israel could be a stepping stone. 

 

Hopefully

[Percy]

(more speculation) Remember the Great War of 1914 was started with an assassination by a 19 year old kid. Perhaps something completely unexpected will happen that nobody can predict.

[New World Explorer]

8 minutes ago, Percy said:

(more speculation) Remember the Great War of 1914 was started with an assassination by a 19 year old kid. Perhaps something completely unexpected will happen that nobody can predict.

Yep, that's a very strong probability in this crazy system of things. 

Things can change literally within hours. 

[Lee49]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:04 PM, Lee49 said:

And then there's them other guys and gals .............................

Federal prosecutors say high-end brothels counted elected officials, tech execs, military officers as clients

.......hundreds of clients including elected officials, technology and pharmaceutical executives, military officers, professors, doctors, and government contractors with security clearance, federal prosecutors announced Wednesday.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/09/high-end-brothels-arrests-military-officers-elected-officials-doctors/71510912007/

Nov. 9th

[Frances Bennett]

12 hours ago, hatcheckgirl said:

I don’t see what the fuss is about, Francis....I don’t understand how the issue of the UN “telling” governments what to do should bother us. It doesn’t involve us what they do to governments. Aren’t we neutral? 
 

During the pandemic, this is the sort of talk that inspired those “sovereign citizens” who disregarded the government’s directives because it was against their “rights”. We are spared all that angst, thankfully. Jehovah has told us to just obey Caesar and give God's things to God. For me, that as simple as I need it. Let the UN do what it wants, Jehovah has it in hand.

 

I missed this message earlier, sorry I didn't reply.

 

I don't care about the UN telling the governments what to do for myself at this precise time, it's just interesting that they are gaining influence, IMO a lot of influence. It's interesting in light of prophecy - we all know what the UN is going to do in the future.

 

Right now we see governments towing the UN line in every member state. IMO this is quite new. In the UK we observed UN agencies over-ride government policy during Covid and directly after Covid (e.g. the original suggested Covid response of Prime Minister Boris Johnson vs the WHO suggested response that was insisted upon, Also see the suggested economic response of Prime Minister Liz Truss vs the suggested and implemented IMF response - Both the WHO and the IMF are UN agencies)

 

So think about it, when the UN line is 'No Religion' - then they will tow that line too. Even if the Prime minister or whoever is in charge in your country doesn't endorse it initially, they will be coerced into enforcing it - exactly as we have seen during the last few years.

 

That's "what all the fuss is about". That's why people are objecting and petitioning and protesting. I'm not objecting, petitioning or protesting though, I'm just observing - I say "bring it on - it's what we are waiting for".

 

As you said, we do indeed obey Caesar as long as it doesn't go against the higher authority of Jehovah.

 

So far the UN line hasn't been in opposition to Jehovah but we absolutely 100% know it will be at some point soon.

 

At that time I will definitely be among the "citizens who disregarded the government’s directives" you mentioned above - but for the right reasons.

[Ysaias]

(mega speculation) Isn't this the location of the current conflict? Will the KOTN step in?

 

Daniel 11:45 And he will plant his royal* tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

 

 

That's the reason why I think we're not having a new book on Daniel's prophecy after the Pure Worship book (rr) and the May 2020 Watchtower.  This is our current interpretation, in rr chapter 17:

• ⁸ “The king of the north.” (Read Daniel 11:40-45.) Daniel foretold the march of world powers from his day down to our time. The prophecy also mentions rival political foes—“the king of the south” and “the king of the north”—each of them having changed identity over the centuries as various earthly nations have fought for supremacy. Regarding the final campaign of the king of the north in “the time of the end,” Daniel said: “He will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction.” Jehovah’s worshippers are the primary target of the king of the north.c But like Gog of Magog, the king of the north comes “to his end” after failing in his attack on God’s people.

   

  c Daniel 11:45 indicates that the king of the north will target God’s people, for it says that this king “will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”

We're expecting Daniel 11:44, 45 to be focused on an attack to us, but it could also apply to both current major conflicts involving the KOTN: Ukraine ("will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction."), and Middle East (“will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”)

 

SOOOO many things concurring in these last last LAST days (1 Cor 7:31). The FDS must be very alert to how all of this fulfills the prophecies. We'll know for sure in a future GB Update.

 

[hatcheckgirl]

I guess I’m not seeing it here in Australia. The UN isn’t something people here care about. We as witnesses understand the UN’s role due to change very shortly, and yes “bring it on” for sure! 

[JennyM]

2 hours ago, Lee49 said:

Federal prosecutors say high-end brothels counted elected officials, tech execs, military officers as clients

.......hundreds of clients including elected officials, technology and pharmaceutical executives, military officers, professors, doctors, and government contractors with security clearance, federal prosecutors announced Wednesday.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/09/high-end-brothels-arrests-military-officers-elected-officials-doctors/71510912007/

Nov. 9th

related on our jw website. 

corrupt politicians 

[mjcabz]

2 hours ago, Ysaias said:

(mega speculation) Isn't this the location of the current conflict? Will the KOTN step in?

 

Daniel 11:45 And he will plant his royal* tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

 

 

That's the reason why I think we're not having a new book on Daniel's prophecy after the Pure Worship book (rr) and the May 2020 Watchtower.  This is our current interpretation, in rr chapter 17:

• ⁸ “The king of the north.” (Read Daniel 11:40-45.) Daniel foretold the march of world powers from his day down to our time. The prophecy also mentions rival political foes—“the king of the south” and “the king of the north”—each of them having changed identity over the centuries as various earthly nations have fought for supremacy. Regarding the final campaign of the king of the north in “the time of the end,” Daniel said: “He will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction.” Jehovah’s worshippers are the primary target of the king of the north.c But like Gog of Magog, the king of the north comes “to his end” after failing in his attack on God’s people.

   

  c Daniel 11:45 indicates that the king of the north will target God’s people, for it says that this king “will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”

We're expecting Daniel 11:44, 45 to be focused on an attack to us, but it could also apply to both current major conflicts involving the KOTN: Ukraine ("will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction."), and Middle East (“will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”)

 

SOOOO many things concurring in these last last LAST days (1 Cor 7:31). The FDS must be very alert to how all of this fulfills the prophecies. We'll know for sure in a future GB Update.

 

We will wait for GBs thoughts, by the way, nice observation. 

[Dages]

2 hours ago, Ysaias said:

(mega speculation) Isn't this the location of the current conflict? Will the KOTN step in?

 

Daniel 11:45 And he will plant his royal* tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

 

 

That's the reason why I think we're not having a new book on Daniel's prophecy after the Pure Worship book (rr) and the May 2020 Watchtower.  This is our current interpretation, in rr chapter 17:

• ⁸ “The king of the north.” (Read Daniel 11:40-45.) Daniel foretold the march of world powers from his day down to our time. The prophecy also mentions rival political foes—“the king of the south” and “the king of the north”—each of them having changed identity over the centuries as various earthly nations have fought for supremacy. Regarding the final campaign of the king of the north in “the time of the end,” Daniel said: “He will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction.” Jehovah’s worshippers are the primary target of the king of the north.c But like Gog of Magog, the king of the north comes “to his end” after failing in his attack on God’s people.

   

  c Daniel 11:45 indicates that the king of the north will target God’s people, for it says that this king “will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”

We're expecting Daniel 11:44, 45 to be focused on an attack to us, but it could also apply to both current major conflicts involving the KOTN: Ukraine ("will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction."), and Middle East (“will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”)

 

SOOOO many things concurring in these last last LAST days (1 Cor 7:31). The FDS must be very alert to how all of this fulfills the prophecies. We'll know for sure in a future GB Update.

 

The fact is don't consider the modern Israel to be eschatologically relevant for now.
It's the spiritual israel that counts, modern israel is a state that was created by the beast and the false prophet  

Let's wait and see

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dages

[coolbrz731]

8 minutes ago, Dages said:

The fact is don't consider the modern Israel to be eschatologically relevant for now.
It's the spiritual israel that counts, modern israel is a state that was created by the beast and the false prophet  

Let's wait and see

It's also fact that none of those Israelites can prove they're sons of Abraham.  The Romans took care of that when they burned down Jerusalem and made sure all of the genealogical records were destroyed.  

[Ysaias]

1 hour ago, Dages said:

Let's wait and see

 

Of course!

 

"Since Bible prophecies are often fully understood only after they are fulfilled or are in the process of fulfillment, we will have to wait and see." (w04 2/1 21.)

This was cited in the 2018 Annual Meeting, in a talk by brother Morris (49:30). Although the persecution in Russia had run for a number of years, in that talk the FDS explained that all dots connected to Russia and allies as KOTN. What a long-awaited news! It meant only a couple of prophecies are to be checked, like the last verses of Da 11 and the shouting of P&S.

https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_periodical/ab/jwb_E_201901_03_r720P.mp4

 

And in this 2021 video, the explanation stops at Da 11:41 and jumps to 12:1.  

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODBibleAccounts/pub-jwb-080_10_VIDEO

 

It's the same now, FDS praying and reading and watching and praying and reading and watching...

 

I hope we also get soon to Da 12:1.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dages

[Ysaias]

This is only "mega speculation".

 

FACT: With Jehovah's help, we will witness the fulfillment ot these prophecies. And one of us will have the privilege of explaining all this to Daniel.

 

[mjcabz]

I remember that there is an article saying that King of the North will become Gog in Magog later. The Daniel 11:44,45 is refering what will happen at the great tribulation like verse 44 it refers the effect of hail stone preaching that's why it turns its head with the news from the east verse 45 it refers to the attack on Gods people and in Daniel 12:1 Michael will act to save Jehovah's people the Armageddon. I am not sure what article in the Watchtower or page in Pure worship book.

[Dhanyel]

China has a sweeping vision to reshape the world — and countries are listening

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/10/china/china-xi-jinping-world-order-intl-hnk/index.html

[MChill14]

Think this is the article being referred to? 

[MChill14]

I think the language would suggest the FDS is not being dogmatic though. Using phrases such as “may” “may be” “could be” and “seem” do indicate this. Will this change? Well I just pray that Jehovah give the FDS his Holy Spirit when it comes to understanding deep prophecy and matters relating to GT ect.

[LeolaRootStew]

21 hours ago, Sofia said:

Personally I don’t imagine Peace and security announcement without the defeat of the KOTN 

🤔

Russia doesn’t give up on Ukraine 

Iran doesn’t give up on Israel 

KOTS defends both Ukraine and Israel 

KOTN won't be "defeated" until Armageddon, but the end of that war would be a legitimate call of peace and security even if they won, so we'll just have to wait and see.

 

https://wol.jw.org/wol/finder?docid=2020401&wtlocale=E&srctype=JWL2

[mjcabz]

1 hour ago, MChill14 said:

I think the language would suggest the FDS is not being dogmatic though. Using phrases such as “may” “may be” “could be” and “seem” do indicate this. Will this change? Well I just pray that Jehovah give the FDS his Holy Spirit when it comes to understanding deep prophecy and matters relating to GT ect.

Yes that's right, because the understanding of this account may be change because it will happened in the future. We can understand also the prophecies if it is already fulfilled or it is already happening. We will wait for the next GB updates. So stay tune 😁

[Sofia]

11 hours ago, Ysaias said:

(mega speculation) Isn't this the location of the current conflict? Will the KOTN step in?

 

Daniel 11:45 And he will plant his royal* tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

 

 

That's the reason why I think we're not having a new book on Daniel's prophecy after the Pure Worship book (rr) and the May 2020 Watchtower.  This is our current interpretation, in rr chapter 17:

• ⁸ “The king of the north.” (Read Daniel 11:40-45.) Daniel foretold the march of world powers from his day down to our time. The prophecy also mentions rival political foes—“the king of the south” and “the king of the north”—each of them having changed identity over the centuries as various earthly nations have fought for supremacy. Regarding the final campaign of the king of the north in “the time of the end,” Daniel said: “He will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction.” Jehovah’s worshippers are the primary target of the king of the north.c But like Gog of Magog, the king of the north comes “to his end” after failing in his attack on God’s people.

   

  c Daniel 11:45 indicates that the king of the north will target God’s people, for it says that this king “will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”

We're expecting Daniel 11:44, 45 to be focused on an attack to us, but it could also apply to both current major conflicts involving the KOTN: Ukraine ("will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction."), and Middle East (“will plant his royal tents between the grand sea [Mediterranean] and the holy mountain of Decoration [where God’s temple once stood and where God’s people worshipped].”)

 

SOOOO many things concurring in these last last LAST days (1 Cor 7:31). The FDS must be very alert to how all of this fulfills the prophecies. We'll know for sure in a future GB Update.

 

My thoughts exactly 

But I can be wrong… We must wait for GB insight on this if needed. 
makes sense 

But we follow the GB