Differences in Opinions

[Katty]

I wanted to start by apologizing for snapping before I took a breather on a neutrality thread. I am learning to deal with discussions where I'm a bit of an outlier among Jehovah's people and the opinions people have that aren't necessarily supported or denounced by Bible principles, and thus become a controversial person.  I tend to be a very opinionated person, overall (which I think most people have noticed) and, I do strive to express myself tactfully, but I simply do not see a lot of things the way other people do. I don't take the things I read at face value. No, I don't form conspiracy theories about them either, because a conspiracy theory is something that simply can't be proven or verified. I just tend to ponder on the things in a particular way. I'm not saying other people don't, but life experience has always given me a somewhat different perspective on things. 
I think I was a bit touchy about the fact that I have offended people for using a phrase that is apparently associated with right wing media. I don't use particular phrases because I like some commentator and thus uses the words he might use. I use phrases because I believe they're reflective of what is actually true and what is actually happening. What I'm learning, little by little about world events such as pandemics, or climate change or whether or not right wing or left wing extremism is taking over the world is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether any of it is 100% true or just has a grain of truth.
I've been trying to be careful, lately, to not give any particular opinion one way or the other, (except in very private conversations with family where we talk about all our views and feelings on various things), because, at the end of the day, the final solution is the same. I sense, for instance that there's some people who want me to admit that there's this looming climate crisis on the horizon, and for all I know, maybe there is. I just don't think it matters that much if I, or anyone else believes it or not, so long as no one judges their brothers and sisters for decisions they make in this system, because Jehovah's going to solve it all anyway.  If I do bring up an opinion, it might be along the lines of how absurd it is that politicians think that people can vote away societal or environmental problems by supporting the 'right' candidate. 
Something I do have very strong views on, however, is that I don't want my child to be subjected to political propaganda that takes the societal and environmental issues of today and turns them into a call to arms directed at children to take the kind of action that children are not authorized to take, thus burdening them with the weight of anxieties and decisions that children are not equipped to handle without extreme anxiety. I've been taking Eliza to a rhyme and sing at the library, and, in the meantime, scoping out books, and a lot of what I found deeply disturbed me. Some of the books looked like they were designed to confuse children about the nature of morality, trying to send the message that all kinds of morals are basically the same and it doesn't matter what people do. Another book on climate change, didn't bother me, because it was about the climate, but because it called children to the kind of action that young children can't possibly take. It just felt like it imposed a huge burden on children that doesn't need to be placed on their shoulders. I don't think Eliza needs to be presented with these subjects with the obvious political and moral biases that the world is presenting to her. I won't shield her from these topics, but I think she needs to learn about them within the framework of how it fits into Jehovah's purpose. I'm not saying I do a perfect job of it. I mean, neutrality is something I genuinely struggle with it, and I'm 100% aware of my struggle and what triggers it, and have decided to face that struggle head on; I think doing so, with Jehovah's help (because there's no way I could over come it alone) will help me be better equipped to help prepare Eliza for the giant throng of propaganda that's going to be headed in her direction, if this system lasts long enough. 

Edited July 6 by Katty

[Tortuga]

Welcome back. 

[Dustparticle]

35 minutes ago, Katty said:

I wanted to start by apologizing for snapping before I took a breather on a neutrality thread. I am learning to deal with discussions where I'm a bit of an outlier among Jehovah's people and the opinions people have that aren't necessarily supported or denounced by Bible principles, and thus become a controversial person.  I tend to be a very opinionated person, overall (which I think most people have noticed) and, I do strive to express myself tactfully, but I simply do not see a lot of things the way other people do. I don't take the things I read at face value. No, I don't form conspiracy theories about them either, because a conspiracy theory is something that simply can't be proven or verified. I just tend to ponder on the things in a particular way. I'm not saying other people don't, but life experience has always given me a somewhat different perspective on things. 
I think I was a bit touchy about the fact that I have offended people for using a phrase that is apparently associated with right wing media. I don't use particular phrases because I like some commentator and thus uses the words he might use. I use phrases because I believe they're reflective of what is actually true and what is actually happening. What I'm learning, little by little about world events such as pandemics, or climate change or whether or not right wing or left wing extremism is taking over the world is that, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether any of it is 100% true or just has a grain of truth.
I've been trying to be careful, lately, to not give any particular opinion one way or the other, (except in very private conversations with family where we talk about all our views and feelings on various things), because, at the end of the day, the final solution is the same. I sense, for instance that there's some people who want me to admit that there's this looming climate crisis on the horizon, and for all I know, maybe there is. I just don't think it matters that much if I, or anyone else believes it or not, so long as no one judges their brothers and sisters for decisions they make in this system, because Jehovah's going to solve it all anyway.  If I do bring up an opinion, it might be along the lines of how absurd it is that politicians think that people can vote away societal or environmental problems by supporting the 'right' candidate. 
Something I do have very strong views on, however, is that I don't want my child to be subjected to political propaganda that takes the societal and environmental issues of today and turns them into a call to arms directed at children to take the kind of action that children are not authorized to take, thus burdening them with the weight of anxieties and decisions that children are not equipped to handle without extreme anxiety. I've been taking Eliza to a rhyme and sing at the library, and, in the meantime, scoping out books, and a lot of what I found deeply disturbed me. Some of the books looked like they were designed to confuse children about the nature of morality, trying to send the message that all kinds of morals are basically the same and it doesn't matter what people do. Another book on climate change, didn't bother me, because it was about the climate, but because it called children to the kind of action that young children can't possibly take. It just felt like it imposed a huge burden on children that doesn't need to be placed on their shoulders. I don't think Eliza needs to be presented with these subjects with the obvious political and moral biases that the world is presenting to her. I won't shield her from these topics, but I think she needs to learn about them within the framework of how it fits into Jehovah's purpose. I'm not saying I do a perfect job of it. I mean, neutrality is something I genuinely struggle with it, and I'm 100% aware of my struggle and what triggers it, and have decided to face that struggle head on; I think doing so, with Jehovah's help (because there's no way I could over come it alone) will help me be better equipped to help prepare Eliza for the giant throng of propaganda that's going to be headed in her direction, if this system lasts long enough. 

 

 

We love you sis.

[hatcheckgirl]

Katty, being a mum in this hideous world is hard. You are doing a great job. Jehovah just want us to do the best we can in this mire. Keep sticking to him 💕

[BLEmom]

Just some thoughts from a mom….

 

It’s been a while since my kids were little, but even then I tended to go with the classics. Winnie the Pooh, Frog and Toad, etc. You get a lot less bombardment of current affairs that way. 

In general when my kids started to hear, notice or mention things that can be hot topics such as racism, political things etc, I would usually say something along the lines of “Some people think that or this.  But what does Jehovah teach us?”  Then we would discuss that. 

Staying grounded in what we know and are thought from Jehovah helps us to stay calm about all the chaotic stuff going on in the world. We can pay it little mind.  We don’t have to know all the ins and outs of what is or isn’t being told, politicized or ‘pushed’. 

Our job as parents is to ensure as little anxiety as possible is given to our children.  If we get anxious over things as parents, it will affect how our children view things. 

So continue to stick closely to the counsel from the slave. It really is the best in the end!  

[computerwiz]

Welcome back!  It's good to have a variety of viewpoints on non-Biblical matters.  

 

Have you read my topic here?  I think it applies in your situation, more or less.  It's not a solution, just something interesting to be mindful of: 

 

 

[Qapla]

I know when my girls were young there were several commercials (public announcements) on TV that kept showing how difficult it was to talk to your children about drugs, smoking and similar issues. I could never figure out why such topics were so difficult to talk about. When one of those ads came on, I would just look at my girls and say "Don't do drugs/smoking/etc". We all got a bit of a chuckle out of it ... but, they got the point and were never afraid to ask about "sensitive" subject/issues that we could then use the Bible and/or publications to discuss. We didn't get into what secular sources, mainstream or alt, said on the matter - we stuck with Jehovah.

 

My girls are grown now and have stayed with Jehovah.

 

Edited July 8 by Qapla

[dljbsp]

On 7/6/2024 at 5:01 PM, Katty said:

I wanted to start by apologizing for snapping before I took a breather on a neutrality thread. I am learning to deal with discussions where I'm a bit of an outlier among Jehovah's people and the opinions people have that aren't necessarily supported or denounced by Bible principles, and thus become a controversial person.  I tend to be a very opinionated person, overall (which I think most people have noticed) and, I do strive to express myself tactfully, but I simply do not see a lot of things the way other people do. I don't take the things I read at face value. No, I don't form conspiracy theories about them either, because a conspiracy theory is something that simply can't be proven or verified. I just tend to ponder on the things in a particular way. I'm not saying other people don't, but life experience has always given me a somewhat different perspective on things. 
 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with such honesty and sincerity. Your commitment to maintaining neutrality and teaching Eliza within the framework of Jehovah’s purpose is truly commendable. It’s clear that you are striving to navigate the complexities of today’s world while staying true to Bible principles, and that is something to be admired.

 

Your sensitivity to how different views and expressions can affect others shows a deep love and respect for your brothers and sisters. It takes a lot of humility and courage to apologize and reflect on our actions, and I believe Jehovah sees your efforts and is pleased with your heart condition.

 

As we know, Jehovah is always there to guide us through our struggles, and it’s wonderful to see how you are relying on Him to help you with neutrality. Remember, we are all a work in progress, and Jehovah understands our imperfections. Your determination to face these challenges head-on with Jehovah’s help will surely strengthen you and serve as a great example for Eliza.

 

Continue to draw close to Jehovah through prayer and study, and He will give you the wisdom and strength needed to guide Eliza and handle the pressures of this system. Keep encouraging your brothers and sisters with your positive outlook and reliance on Jehovah. We are all in this together, supporting and uplifting each other as we await Jehovah’s righteous new world.

[Katty]

Thought I would dump a lot of my opinions here as almost an unofficial blog haha.
So, I have been vocal in my criticism of progressivism, which is typically associated with the left, and, thinking on it, I can see how that might stumble people thinking I'm not being entirely neutral, and, in all fairness, it does impact my views on neutrality and I do have readjust.
But to clarify how I view progressivism, or as I might often call it, modern secularism, isn't really as a political movement so much as a philosophy, perhaps even a religion. I don't think progressivism necessarily has to be aligned with any particular political party, but it tends to not be associated with conservatism as political conservatives are often social conservatives and believe in traditional beliefs such as marriage, religion and local community.
To me, progressivism is a collection of values that is entirely antithetical to Jehovah's views and thus I see it as evil. The values they treasure include moral relativism and that morality isn't as important as power and fairly distributing who is allowed to wield power, sexual liberation including that of children, and that the ends justify the means. I have seen a thorough review of Disney's more recent "Star Wars" show The Acolyte, and the morality promoted there heavily features the ideas of power and ends justifying the means, and thus murderers are viewed as sympathetic heroes and those who act in self defence, the villains. Also, apparently, sexual attraction plays  a role in a young woman "waking up" to the "correct" morality that is presented in the program and it ends on the protagonist hand in hand with a sith, although he isn't really called a sith in the show because that's considered to be slur. This is the kind of morality that's being pushed on our children even in children's shows, hence why I made the Shows pushing LGBT on children thread. It's also being promoted in even casual viewing TV shows such as talk shows, in the education systems, major corporations are trying to condition us to adopt this view on morality, and many news channels are basically propaganda with the end of imposing this morality upon us.
I think it's been amped up 400% since 2020, as well. I recall seeing a child "LGBT activist" featured on a TV show about precocious children. This is a groomed child, but that child was presented as being someone who knows their own mind when it comes to views on sexuality. I recall seeing a talk show featuring child BLM protestors. The attempts to radicalize children has been at the maximum level since then. At the library recently, so far, I have seen a book called "F is for Feminism" meant to radicalize toddlers, a book on consent for children (even though young children can't consent), an inclusive book about sex for young children and a book on climate change that, instead of presenting the topic in a factual scientific way, presented the case that, basically, if they don't guilt trip mom and dad from not driving places, the polar bears may all die. it's such a heavy burden to impose on young children. All of this is, yes, political, but it's also a value system that's being imposed on everyone, but, especially onto the young children. 

[computerwiz]

12 minutes ago, Katty said:

All of this is, yes, political, but it's also a value system that's being imposed on everyone, but, especially onto the young children. 

 

That's what our focus should be.  Politics can do whatever they want...

 

If one side started saying "we're going back to treating others the way we want to be treated", would we stop saying that?  Would we now feel bad about something the Bible teaches us?

 

We should focus on the values, which I believe is exactly what you're saying.  Our focus should be the principles that Jehovah teaches us.  Not which side is saying or doing what.  Not even which side is "better" at meeting or respecting our values.  It doesn't matter.  What matters is what we believe and what we need to do.  And talking about our values should never invoke any political feelings.  Not for us anyways.  One side may be better at respecting certain values, but we are no part of the world.  So nothing we can do about it but sit back and watch.    And be aware of how to protect ourselves and our children.  😎👍

Edited July 19 by computerwiz

[trottigy]

I was thinking the same as Jeremy - instead of focusing on political terms that have no actual definition like "woke", "progressivism", "liberalism", correctness” or for that matter "conservativism" focus on values that are specific.

 

Say, I don’t want to be recognized as being in a group that calls out another specific group (especially ones based on definitions that people make up for themselves) – instead I want to be recognized as a person that speaks about basic moral values, like: fornication in any version is wrong, lack of love for neighbor is wrong – even if the neighbor is not in the country legally, human rulers will all be unsuccessful until they listen to Jehovah, turn the other cheek and people learning to fight only causes fights and people learning war only causes wars BUT learning to be peaceable causes peace.

 

I wonder if using politically charged words and terms that are vague shows lack of neutrality – where using Biblical terms with exact definitions helps us to be neutral.

 

EDIT: that last sentence is a note to self. 

 

Edited July 19 by trottigy

[computerwiz]

5 minutes ago, trottigy said:

using Biblical terms with exact definitions helps us to be neutral

 

Can't go wrong sticking close to the Bible.  It's like with the rainbow.....they may have tainted it, but we need to remember what it really means, and teach others the truth.

 

Otherwise, Satan can (and is probably trying to) corrupt the meaning of our teachings so that people won't listen to us or view us as extreme or polarized.  We need to be ready to explain, not just say terms and hope it lands successfully.

 

That being said, we should still probably be careful about anything that is very triggering.  There's ways to talk about certain things to lead a person into a pleasant conversation, as opposed to getting them riled up.  And then always there will be those that get riled up no matter what.  That's when we take our leave...

[kejedo]

Dear Sis, I was looking at this thought. "Something I do have very strong views on, however, is that I don't want my child to be subjected to political propaganda". I don't know if your daughter is (going to attend) public school. My adult sons (none in the truth) were loaded down with this in public school.  I taught in the public school system myself and had to filter and defend against this. We home schooled our sons for a while and later my now deceased husb (also not ever Baptized)  said he wished we had home schooled them for their entire school days. Also, tv commercials are skewed, even in the most favorable versions. I hope to read more from you, and wish you the best in our mutual goal of following Jehovah's path. ys,pauline  

Edited July 19 by kejedo

[kejedo]

Thinking about opinions, some are just not based on anything but taste. Example, a sister I know and love just does not like beards on men.  She is an elderly widow (not looking) and her husband did not have a beard. It's just a preference with no specific reason. My husband had a soul patch or a goatee, but I have no preference. I don't think any of our sons has a beard or mustache right now. As for opinions of things that are neither Biblically right nor wrong, I generally don't share an opinion. My experience as a school teacher was that some students would say, "I didn't like that book because it is the kind of story I'm not fond of" (parallelism, saying the same thing again.) Most opinions are just as baseless, just personal preference, and we all can have our own. No need to visit them upon others. I try not to be opinionated b/c we have enough things to be aware of. I have not noticed any one's statements on jwtalknet that seem opinionated.