USB cam for KH

[computerwiz]

The USB Cam for the Kingdom Hall that was recommended from our suppliers doesn't seem to work well. We have some meetings where it cuts out and Zoom claims it can't find it. Sometimes unplugging and replugging works. Sometimes it just comes back on. Sometimes it won't come on all meeting. 

 

It's not the PC...a simple alternative Webcam works fine.  But it's one made for mounting by the PC. Either it's the cam itself or it's due to the length of the USB cable.

 

I'm not a hardware guy. So looking for tips on this....

 

[Qapla]

The distance to the camera can be an issue

 

While standard USB cabling has a distance limitation of about five metres, you can use an active piece of hardware for longer runs. Active extension cables, extenders, converters and hubs can help you increase how far USB cable can go.

 

USB range expanders can improve the signal strength of your device. A good quality cable with thicker gauge copper conductors can improve signal transmission quality. A passive cable does not boost the signal, and the signal loss increases with distance.

 

You may need an active USB cable - this is one that has power applied to it

 

[Myew]

Depending on the camera, especially if you're using a cable that didn't come with the camera, it may require that you use a SuperSpeed USB 3 cable and have it plugged into a USB 3/SS (sometimes blue) port on the computer rather than USB 2 (often black). As mentioned, active extenders may be helpful or needed. Active USB 2 can be cheaper and go farther than USB 3 if it isn't necessary. First determine the length and type of cable you need, and check what standard of port it is plugged into.

Edited October 24 by Myew

[Dustparticle]

3 hours ago, computerwiz said:

The USB Cam for the Kingdom Hall that was recommended from our suppliers doesn't seem to work well. We have some meetings where it cuts out and Zoom claims it can't find it. Sometimes unplugging and replugging works. Sometimes it just comes back on. Sometimes it won't come on all meeting. 

 

It's not the PC...a simple alternative Webcam works fine.  But it's one made for mounting by the PC. Either it's the cam itself or it's due to the length of the USB cable.

 

I'm not a hardware guy. So looking for tips on this....

 

 

 I with no patience, I just cool down and take of couple deep breaths. Eventually I ask Brother Hammer to do the job. Yes, his first name Sledge.

Edited October 24 by Dustparticle

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Dustparticle said:

 

 I with no patience, I just cool down and take of couple deep breaths. Eventually I ask Brother Hammer to do the job.

Brother Impact Enhancer...

[tekmantwo]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

Brother Impact Enhancer...

Musical instrument,

🎵B flat, B flat, B flat....

[computerwiz]

11 hours ago, Qapla said:

The distance to the camera can be an issue

 

While standard USB cabling has a distance limitation of about five metres, you can use an active piece of hardware for longer runs. Active extension cables, extenders, converters and hubs can help you increase how far USB cable can go.

 

USB range expanders can improve the signal strength of your device. A good quality cable with thicker gauge copper conductors can improve signal transmission quality. A passive cable does not boost the signal, and the signal loss increases with distance.

 

You may need an active USB cable - this is one that has power applied to it

 

 

Thanks, this is the route I'm leaning towards.  Something with the cable.

 

Do you have an particular brand(s) or products that you trust to do a good job with handling such a distance?  I think 50-60 feet would be what we need.  I know the cable we have now is 65 feet.

[Korotkiy]

Our branch recommend to use active power line USB. This solution is working in almost cases.

 

5-6 meters is a limit USB for webcams. By design. Especcially when line above the ceiling, where LED lamp drivers cause serious interferences . On one project we have good signal of 20m HDMI cable on the floor, but when have fixed above, video signal become horrible.

 

Before carantine we have used self-made web-server to translate meeting and I have investigated this issue - have tried to made DIY cable from special shielded twisted cable with thick cooper lines - this solution has worked, but was unstable when restart of Motherboard.

 

So the only solution is active USB cable. Please look our branch doc with recommended HW below.

[Korotkiy]

And please try to set cable far away from led lamps. Just for test you can off lamps and then on to see if it interfere the signal.

[jwhess]

For even longer extensions, you can use a USB over Ethernet adapter, which lets you use the USB protocol to transmit data over an Ethernet connection, instead. You can run a USB over Ethernet connection to around 150 feet if you’re using a USB 2.0 cable, a USB 2.0 Ethernet extension, and a high-quality Cat 6 or newer cable. For USB 3.0 Ethernet extensions, you can go even further, extending that run to more than 300 ft if you use high-quality cables throughout the run.

 

Use these kinds of extensions for running longer USB cables for keyboards, mice, printers, scanners, or other USB devices where you can’t easily get access to them, or you want them to reside in other rooms from where you are. Don’t confuse them with USB network adapters, however. 

 

 

[computerwiz]

Thanks @Korotkiy & @jwhess!  I think that gives me the details I need to move forward.  I will check out everything this weekend and hopefully have a working solution in a couple weeks!  

[Qapla]

USB to Ethernet is a good way to go since CAT6 cable resists more interference than USB cable does. You may be able to place the powered adapter near the PC instead of having to put it at the camera.

 

[Korotkiy]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

USB to Ethernet is a good way to go since CAT6 cable resists more interference than USB cable does. You may be able to place the powered adapter near the PC instead of having to put it at the camera.

 

 

Agree, but please note that long CAT6 cable is a bit expensive. 

 

This option is PoE Ethernet - using the same cable or a second cheaper UTP cable just for send power on a receiver (camera) side

 

[Qapla]

CAT6 comes in unshielded (UTP) as well as shielded (STP)

 

[jwhess]

40 minutes ago, Korotkiy said:

Agree, but please note that long CAT6 cable is a bit expensive. 

Around the midwest USA Cat 6 cable can be purchased in 65 foot lengths for about a $1 a foot or less.  That is not considered too expensive here.

[jdcarlson]

I am not experienced in hooking up A/V systems for the Kingdom Hall.

 

But A/V has been a hobby of mine for 60+ years. My current home system is McIntosh Laboratories equipment. If you are not familiar with McIntosh do a google search on  AudioClassics.com, Audiokarma.org, Audioafficianado.org, or search Ebay for McIntosh electronics. They are one of few remaining outfits that still make "high end" audio in the US (Binghamption, NY). Some of their new components are over $10,0000.

 

I know technology has improved, but in 1983 my wife and I built a 4,000 sq ft house (on four levels). I did the contracting myself. I did all electrical work myself.

 

In the early 1980s the "Great Room" concept was in full swing. Our house had a 30 ft by 30ft "Great Room." I built a "sound cabinet" on one side of the room and teh TV & speakers were on the other side of the room. At first our tv had analog audio output. Using unbalanced to balanced transformers (with shielded twin lead) I was able to get the audio signal over a 70 foot run to the audio components on the other side of the room. Going up and down walls, and under the floor from one side to the other, and around obstacles, made about a 70ft run.

 

Then, we wanted a bigger TV. But the bigger TV did not have analog audio output. It only had toslink digital audio output. I researched toslink "in-line amplifiers" and found mixed results (to say the links). So, I found a toslink to Cat5 powered adapter. A sending unit by the TV with a receiveing unit at the audio cabinet. I had a D/A converter, so going to the preamp was not a problem. It worked like a champ.

 

Considering the overall cost of a good A/V system for the Kingdom Hall, going to CAT6 cables would seem to be a minor incorease in cost.

 

I am now 80, and no longer have the energy I had 40 or 50 years ago to crawl around the attic, or under the floor, to string cables. Plus, I am in a smaller 1200 sq ft apartment (my wife is in the Alzheimers' ward).

 

Locally, sometimes the ZOOM feed will not show the stage camera. One brother, while visiting me, commented on "wi-fi" problems. I was about to call the Coordinator to tell him to put in a hard wired connection, but my son stopped me, telling me that, despite my knowledge gained from  "hobby" in 60+ years, I had not "standing" to tell the brothers what to do.

 

For my secular work I have over 50 years in the Certified Public Accounting business. Our CPA work and record keeping has been digital for over 40 years. I first started out networking computers with serial port networks (back in the days of MSDOS) in 1966. I went from that to coaxial cable networking in the early 1990s. Then, about 2,000 we went to CAT5E. Although the 'in-wall' wiring is mostly still CAT5E, the rest of the wiring is CAT6.

 

I will not use "wi-fi." One reason is for security. Even though I am supposedly 'retired' my son still occasionally sends me things to review. It works because we went "to the cloud" about 2010, so I can access things from my apartment. For about four years we tried in-house servers with "terminal services." But that was VERY costly from a standpoint of required in-house servers, and the software was quite "cklunky." I will not use "wi-fi" because I do not want some dude in the parking lot attempting to intercept my confidential work on a client's most intimate financial affairs. As long as I stick to hard-wired, I do not have that worry.

 

Also, my experience with "wi-fi" is "spotty" at best.

 

Hard wired is the only dependable way to set up a network. I know there are "overlappling zones" of wi-fi, and other permutations, but nothing is as secure as a solid hard wired connection.

 

 So, despite my secular experience with networking, and my 60+ years with A/V hobby, my son still forbids my to approach the brothers since I no longer have "standing" to put my nose in where it does not belong.

 

Having said all that, I still suggest going to CAT6 for ALL connections in tha A/V systm at the hall.

 

I have learned "the hard way" that is the only way to go.

 

thanks,

 

Jim

[Pabo]

15 hours ago, jwhess said:

Around the midwest USA Cat 6 cable can be purchased in 65 foot lengths for about a $1 a foot or less.  That is not considered too expensive here.

 

We use Cat6e cables for longer lengths due to superior speeds and better shielding. It is not that much more than Cat6.

[Myew]

@jdcarlson I'm not familiar with LDC regulations, but I would be very surprised if any new hall construction is not wired to the A/V desk at minimum. 🤔 Our hall was built in the early 2010s and has ethernet networking to the A/V and the Library. Though in some cases our hall has had issues with the electrical wiring or ISP broadband going down during inclement weather. If the internet connection itself goes down, we connect a phone hotspot/usb tether to the computers for Zoom. Some people are unfamiliar with technology enough that they will refer to all internet connections as Wi-Fi. Though we still use Wi-Fi access points as well of course, since the majority of people use phones and tablets and need to be able to download publications for JW Library, use a Zoom tablet for the conductor, etc.

Sorry for rambling. I do recommend that if you ever experience interruptions on Zoom, that while not telling them what to do, pray about it and reach out to your COBE/whoever is assigned as Video Operator at that meeting just to let them know each time that something isn't working properly. I'm sure that they want to help everyone have a good experience during the meeting, so appeal to them for help. Not all cameras support wired connections unfortunately, there may be interference, PoE cameras tend to be a lot more expensive, etc. Maybe there needs to be a change. I'm sure that they have plenty of guidance available, but it takes patience and a lot of time to work things out.
(Luke 18:5-7) because this widow keeps making me trouble, I will see that she gets justice so that she will not keep coming and wearing me out with her demand.’” 6 Then the Lord said: “Hear what the judge, although unrighteous, said! 7 Certainly, then, will not God cause justice to be done for his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, while he is patient toward them?