GB 2025 Update #4

[johnnyjw01]

8 hours ago, Dages said:

Like birthdays, tatoos aren't great in the Bible.
 

But piercings are seen positively 😬

[Amygdala]

On 7/6/2025 at 10:41 AM, Tronora said:

I would much rather celebrate my faithful service to Jehovah on my date of baptism. One more year in the truth ❤️ 

 

Love that! 😍

[BLEmom]

On 7/6/2025 at 4:41 AM, Tronora said:

 

I don't see birthdays coming. I would much rather celebrate my faithful service to Jehovah on my date of baptism. One more year in the truth ❤️ 

 

I concur.
I keep my family’s baptism dates on the calendar and wish them a happy baptism anniversary.  

Also, when my son was at bethel I wished him a Happy Bethelversary on the date he reported. Sent him a box of goodies. 

Those are the types of things I can see celebrating even on into the new world. 
Even in Israelite times, the women would go up each year to celebrate and encourage the daughter of Jephthah for her sacrifice of serving at the tabernacle for the rest of her life. 

[Amygdala]

21 hours ago, BLEmom said:

t almost seems that some feel the desire for many things we don’t do. Every time an understanding is adjusted to allow for something small ie beards, slacks for sisters and now toasting, there is a big discussion of all the things people think we may soon be allowed to do. Things like tattoos, birthdays, thanksgiving and yes even Christmas, etc. 

 

Is there a feeling every day of our standards being too restrictive?  Do we feel hemmed in by what we see as “too many rules”?  Do we have secret desires to be more like the rest of the world?  Do we just want to make all decisions ourselves without having to see what the direction is?
 

 

Yes so true. Tonight I covered with a bible student lesson 14 in the ELF book about How Can Our Worship Be Pleasing to God. In para.4, the scripture to read was in Psalm 106:35, 36:

 

“But they mingled with the nations and adopted their ways. They kept serving their idols, and these became a snare to them.“

 

We discussed idols, but also how the world exerts pressure to conform and promote disrespect for God and simply ignore what the Bible has to say. This scripture really sunk down with my bible student, particularly the last part. She actually took a pad of paper, wrote down the scripture and added her personal thoughts on it. Jehovah wants us to survive living in this world, but doesn‘t mean we have to be like the world. Then there is the subtle danger of turning something into something normal and acceptable from something that in reality is really offensive to Jehovah

 

[Tortuga]

19 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

I keep my family’s baptism dates on the calendar and wish them a happy baptism anniversary.  

I send my friends and family a Happy B-day text...

[Shawnster]

4 hours ago, Qapla said:

To help shed some light on the subject, the Update only clarified "toasting/clinking glasses" ... where are people getting birthdays, Thanksgiving and other declared holidays by various religious and governmental institutions from around the world from this talk? 

 

 

While these speculations are running wild, it is understandable. 

 

As an organization we have always held fast to the truth. We have been told repeatedly how we follow the scriptures and long ago purged all traces of false religion. All of these worldly customs and practices and traditions have pagan origins, and are rooted in false religion and so we avoid them at all costs. 

 

So you can understand how hard it is to accept some of these changes. And we are having a lot of changes in a short time. Unlike most of the beliefs that have been clarified over the decades, these recent changes affect our daily lives. 

 

The line of reasoning presented in the update is that if a custom or practice has no religious significance in our community, then the custom or practice is a conscience matter and up to each individual to decide. This line of reasoning now opens up a lot of possibilities that up to last week were never even considered. 

 

Offering a toast does not have any religious significance in my community and people do not think they are invoking God's blessings. OK, what else is there? 

 

God bless you. Gesundheit. na zdrowie. Offering an expressing to someone who sneezes is no longer viewed as having religious or superstitious significance but is considered good manners. Yes, we have Watchtowers that clearly state why this would be a wrong practice for Christians, the reasoning is exactly the same as why we avoided offering toasts. Clearly line of reasoning from this update also applies to this custom when someone sneezes. 

 

OK, what next? Thanksgiving? Our community attaches no religious significance to this. Christmas? That continues to lose religious significance. OK, like you I agree these questions cross the line and in no way will we ever celebrate these holidays, but you see why people here are going down this road. 

 

OK, so the holidays are really off track, but what about tattoos? We are no longer under the Mosaic Law and, more importantly, people who get tattoos are not doing so for a dead person (with the exception of the memorial tattoos). These tattoos are no longer viewed as having any religious significance., just like offering toasts of a blessing when someone sneezes. 

 

What else? Knock on wood? Nose rings? Men with earrings? Gaged ears? We are allowed beards now. The same reasoning why some would say men with pierced ears is wrong is the same reasoning that used to be used to explain why beards were wrong. 

 

I'm confident we will receive further guidance on the full extent this new approach extends. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Shawnster

[Qapla]

3 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

While these speculations are running wild, it is understandable. 

 

Offering a toast does not have any religious significance in my community and people do not think they are invoking God's blessings. OK, what else is there? 

 

OK, what next? Thanksgiving? Our community attaches no religious significance to this. Christmas? That continues to lose religious significance. OK, like you I agree these questions cross the line and in no way will we ever celebrate these holidays, but you see why people here are going down this road. 

 

While I do understand some conjecture on tattoos, earrings and the like ... I did not mention any quandary over these issues. I specified: "where are people getting birthdays, Thanksgiving and other declared holidays by various religious and governmental institutions"

 

11 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

OK, like you I agree these questions cross the line and in no way will we ever celebrate these holidays, but you see why people here are going down this road

 

No, I do not see why people are trying to include obvious religious and national holidays as being something we may change.

[Tortuga]

40 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

The same reasoning why some would say men with pierced ears is wrong is the same reasoning that used to be used to explain why beards were wrong

There are some things we are created with, and some we aren't. Beards are a natural growth, extra holes in the head are not.

 

Speaking of acceptable fashion,it makes you wonder how much we will give up to ensure we don't offend any newly resurrected ones that still associate acceptable fashion with paganism.

Edited 13 hours ago by Tortuga

[BLEmom]

It took less than six months for me to see brothers with beards and not notice. It was just natural. Now I think nothing of it. 
 

With things that don’t come naturally, I’ve noticed the following….

 

I’ve seen different friends with tattoos that they got while in the world and I’m still distracted when seeing them. Even the small ones. Especially when in the ministry. 
 

Modest ear piercings I don’t notice. But multiple ear piercings I do. Ear gauges look grotesque to me.  
A small nose piercing has Not been distracting to me when I’ve seen them on random people in the community but bolts through the nose and lips are distracting.  
 

Not only do we take into account laws on principles on the origin and meaning of customs and actions, but we also have to take into account modesty. 
Lots of references for the scripture at 1 Tim 2:9

 

[Ostria]

50 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

What else? Knock on wood? Nose rings? Men with earrings? Gaged ears? We are allowed beards now. The same reasoning why some would say men with pierced ears is wrong is the same reasoning that used to be used to explain why beards were wrong. 

 

 

Depends with men with earrings. Men with one earring is usually just a fashion thing, however two earrings i believe have roots in the gay community.

 

Also, noooo "knock on wood" is a religious thing....(Asks the Jehovahs Witness that knocks on...wooden doors........) But i'm about to do my research on this and figure out whats going on with the good ol wood knocking

[Jw2414]

I think we all have to stop thinking about what may or may not come next. I will do whatever the governing body says. I don't agree with birthdays but if they say birthdays is okay then I know I can deal with my other bros and sisters celebrating it but I will not.

[Robinson]

8 hours ago, Hope said:

Plus, we are to be thankful for God's blessings every day, not just one big day a year, that features excess in many cases.

For sure. That's what I told the lady, that I don't think for witnesses Thanksgiving is not that big of a deal because we're always associating having meals and giving thanks.

[Robinson]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

The line of reasoning presented in the update is that if a custom or practice has no religious significance in our community, then the custom or practice is a conscience matter and up to each individual to decide. This line of reasoning now opens up a lot of possibilities that up to last week were never even considered. 

 

This is all I was saying...under this line of reasoning, what should we consider since Bro Lett did say that we shouldnt be looking to the organization for rules on every single thing, that as mature Christians we should allow our conscience to make decisions based on the outline he mentioned.

[Hope]

1 hour ago, Ostria said:

 

 

Depends with men with earrings. Men with one earring is usually just a fashion thing, however two earrings i believe have roots in the gay community.

 

Also, noooo "knock on wood" is a religious thing....(Asks the Jehovahs Witness that knocks on...wooden doors........) But i'm about to do my research on this and figure out whats going on with the good ol wood knocking

 

Knocking on wood was for good luck. One of those lame pagan rituals adapted by "Christianity" and said it's about the cross... 😕

 

Pagan Roots:

Many cultures, including Norse paganism, revered trees and forests. 

 

Spirituality and Trees:

Norse mythology, for example, features the World Tree, Yggdrasil, which connects different realms and is associated with fate and the Norns. 

 

Seeking Protection:

The practice of knocking on wood may have stemmed from the belief that spirits resided in trees and that knocking would awaken them for protection or to acknowledge their presence. 

 

Avoiding Jinxes:

In modern usage, "knock on wood" is often used to prevent something mentioned from going wrong or to avoid tempting fate. 

 

Christian Adaptation:

Some theories suggest that Christian reformers adapted the pagan practice, linking the "wood" to the wood of the cross. 

[Hope]

1 hour ago, BLEmom said:

It took less than six months for me to see brothers with beards and not notice. It was just natural. Now I think nothing of it. 
 

With things that don’t come naturally, I’ve noticed the following….

 

I’ve seen different friends with tattoos that they got while in the world and I’m still distracted when seeing them. Even the small ones. Especially when in the ministry. 
 

Modest ear piercings I don’t notice. But multiple ear piercings I do. Ear gauges look grotesque to me.  
A small nose piercing has Not been distracting to me when I’ve seen them on random people in the community but bolts through the nose and lips are distracting.  
 

Not only do we take into account laws on principles on the origin and meaning of customs and actions, but we also have to take into account modesty. 
Lots of references for the scripture at 1 Tim 2:9

 

 

I feel exactly the same, Dawn. I just got second holes in my earlobes this past February. I've finally decided it wasn't heathen or hussy or poor example to do so, after lo, these 45 years or so they've been in style.. 😉 I feel cute now

 

I won't ever like men with earrings or multiple piercings, gauges, etc., on anyone. I do not like tattoos; it's marking up the beautiful skin Jehovah gave us (imo).

 

Care needs to be taken we're not strolling too close to the permissiveness of the world. Doing so will undoubtedly start to cause divisions amongst us - and that's unthinkable.

[BLEmom]

4 minutes ago, Hope said:

 

I feel exactly the same, Dawn. I just got second holes in my earlobes this past February. I've finally decided it wasn't heathen or hussy or poor example to do so, after lo, these 45 years or so they've been in style.. 😉 I feel cute now

 

I won't ever like men with earrings or multiple piercings, gauges, etc., on anyone. I do not like tattoos; it's marking up the beautiful skin Jehovah gave us (imo).

 

Care needs to be taken we're not strolling too close to the permissiveness of the world. Doing so will undoubtedly start to cause divisions amongst us - and that's unthinkable.

Too funny!  I’ve been considering getting a second piercing in each ear as well. For a simple stud on the top and the dangle or hoop on the bottom.  When we were young it was scandalous! 🤣

I guess I should clarify by multiple piercings being distracting to me, I’m talking about how some wear several along the ear all the way to the top.  

Edited 12 hours ago by BLEmom

[Hope]

6 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Too funny!  I’ve been considering getting a second piercing in each ear as well. For a simple stud on the top and the dangle or hoop on the bottom.  When we were young it was scandalous! 🤣

I guess I should clarify by multiple piercings being distracting to me, I’m talking about how some wear several along the ear all the way to the top.  

 

 Yah - I've been wearing diamond studs in my ears for decades... and decided I want to wear other earrings, too - without taking out my diamonds! So, it was a pure fashion choice and desire not to possibly lose my studs by taking them on and off. They're smallish and now I can wear hoops and danglies and all sorts. I feel fancy!

 

Off to Claire's Boutique with you! ❤️ 

Edited 12 hours ago by Hope

[Ostria]

30 minutes ago, Hope said:

Avoiding Jinxes:

In modern usage, "knock on wood" is often used to prevent something mentioned from going wrong or to avoid tempting fate. 

 

Ah i remember this. Havent done it in a minute. My older cousin though did something a bit more silly. If someone farted the last one to knock on wood was the one that had to take the blame for it.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Qapla said:

While I do understand some conjecture on tattoos, earrings and the like ... I did not mention any quandary over these issues. I specified: "where are people getting birthdays, Thanksgiving and other declared holidays by various religious and governmental institutions"

 

I hear you.  I agree with you.  I can also tell you how they are thinking and what is causing this confusion.

 

Look at the principles outlined in that update:

 

3.1. [Principle 1of3] Would Jehovah Be Offended by This?
At 2 Corinthians 6:17, Jehovah gives us clear direction: “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’” This principle emphasizes that Christians must stay far away from any symbol or custom related to false religion or spiritism.

 

3.2. [Principle 2of3] How Would This Affect Others in the Congregation?
Romans 14:19 and 21 remind us: “So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up.” “It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles.”
Even if a symbol or custom isn’t wrong in itself, we need to consider how others in the congregation might view it. We would never want our actions to offend others needlessly. At the same time, as mature Christians we respect the right that others have to make their own decisions based on their Bible-trained conscience.

 

3.3. [Principle 3of3] How Is This Symbol or Custom Viewed by People in My Culture or Community?

The principle here is that we take into account how others feel about and view matters. Knowing how a certain symbol or custom is viewed in our own country or community is very important. Something that is very offensive in our land or culture may be viewed as completely innocent in another land or culture.

 

So the Christian needs to be primarily concerned about what? “Not what a certain symbol or design possibly meant thousands of years ago or how it might be thought of on the other side of the world, but what it means now to most people where he lives.”

 

It's that last paragraph above that people talking about Thanksgiving or birthdays are focused on.  Birthdays, like toasting, are not viewed in our community as having any connection with false religion or spiritism.  It's not connected to nationalism.  Points 1 and 3 both focus on whether the custom, practice, symbol, or object is currently associated with false religion or spiritism in the community we reside in.  

 

Celebrating birthdays or Thanksgiving or any of these other holidays are, in my opinion, non-starters.  We're not going back to these or any other holiday.  At the very least celebrating these holidays would violate principle 2 listed above - How would this affect the congregation?  Suddenly celebrating these holidays would stumble many in the congregation.

 

2 hours ago, Qapla said:

No, I do not see why people are trying to include obvious religious and national holidays as being something we may change.

 

I never thought brothers would have beards or sisters wear slacks to the meeting.  I'm sure many here thought that was obvious.  In fact, when the change in meeting attire was first announced a very faithful brother made it clear to me how this troubled him.  He even shared how we were always recognized by "how well we dressed."  I know I always mocked Christendom when I'd see them not wearing a tie and sport jacket.  Yet, here we are.

 

Same thing regarding toasting.  I thought it was obvious why we did not engage in such a practice.  I thought it was quite clear that toasting was a way of offering a drink offering, which is a form of worship, to whomever or whatever was being toasted.  

 

What you and I think is obvious is not so obvious to someone else.  Birthdays do not hold any religious significance in my community (I can't speak for anyone else).  Thanksgiving does not seem all that nationalistic.  I guarantee you nobody in the United States celebrating Thanksgiving could explain to you the nationalistic origin.  They all think it came from the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock.  So, to connect back to the principles listed above - Birthdays and Thanksgiving are no longer viewed as religious or nationalistic in my community.  I'm not saying this is the correct reasoning a Christian should be using.  I am saying this is the line of reasoning they are following though.  Again, this is why I imagine we will have a Watchtower with clarification before too long.  

 

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

There are some things we are created with, and some we aren't. Beards are a natural growth, extra holes in the head are not.

 

This reasoning should apply equally to sisters as well as brothers, no?

 

2 hours ago, Ostria said:

 

 

Depends with men with earrings. Men with one earring is usually just a fashion thing, however two earrings i believe have roots in the gay community.

 

 

I think it's safe to say that, when I was your age (or a tad younger), I believed the same thing about men with only 1 earring.  The expression was "left is right and right is wrong" which meant a man with an earring in the left ear was straight but the right ear was gay.  

 

Rubbish.  There is and was no such code.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Shawnster

[ladiife]

On 7/6/2025 at 7:50 PM, Dark King said:

Good rule of thumb. Ask yourself, would this be in a new system? Can I prepare myself to be in a new system with or without this?

 

Does it pass to whatever scripture?

 

 (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=50004008&srcid=share

That’s a good one. Because we are being prepared to be citizens of God’s kingdom 

 

[ladiife]

4 hours ago, Hope said:

 

 Yah - I've been wearing diamond studs in my ears for decades... and decided I want to wear other earrings, too - without taking out my diamonds! So, it was a pure fashion choice and desire not to possibly lose my studs by taking them on and off. They're smallish and now I can wear hoops and danglies and all sorts. I feel fancy!

 

Off to Claire's Boutique with you! ❤️ 

I know a sister with a small nose ring that goes to another congregation. She’s a pioneer, and her husband is an elder. 

[Dages]

If I wanted to guess a controversial point that could smoothen, I'd say the cross.

 

Not that Jesus was killed on a cross, but the symbol in itself could be out of the progressive elongation of the panel above Jesus head/hands.

After all, if you ask a kid to draw the stake with Jesus in it, he/she will probably draw the typical cross we know.

 

I'd rather have this than birthdays.

 

And that might help people join us during the GT.

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Dages said:

If I wanted to guess a controversial point that could smoothen, I'd say the cross.

 

Not that Jesus was killed on a cross, but the symbol in itself could be out of the progressive elongation of the panel above Jesus head/hands.

After all, if you ask a kid to draw the stake with Jesus in it, he/she will probably draw the typical cross we know.

 

I'd rather have this than birthdays.

 

And that might help people join us during the GT.

 

 

I guess I don't follow. How would our acceptance or use of the cross change according to what you describe? What would we do differently that we are not doing now?