GB 2025 Update #4

[jwzhang]

9 hours ago, Tortuga said:

"Quick, please, give me some of the red that you have there, for I am thirsty!" Genesish 25:30

br Richard slow down, I think you're starting to slur some of your words there near the end 🍺 😅

[vjohzon]

Having a mother we never really lose the anointed we just can’t see them anymore, but I believe in Jehovah‘s love and that the anointed after Armageddon or after the thousand year reign, they will be able to come and visit us since the judging will be done in the world will be at peace. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. Be that the anointed too have many ties to people on the Earth so visiting would amplify Jehovah‘s love for all of us.

Edited Wednesday at 08:06 PM by vjohzon

[Ivar]

On 7/4/2025 at 6:21 PM, Jimi-L said:

I wasn't aware that raising a toast was considered a sin. It's probably not a very common custom in Finland.

  

On 7/5/2025 at 2:30 PM, Leslie.m said:

Toasting is considered in the Bible Study:

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102021243?q=toasting&p=par

The Bible study books from before "Enjoy Life Forever!" also mention it.
 

How to remain in God's love: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/in-gods-love/do-celebrations-holidays-please-god/
 

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THE ORIGINS OF TOASTING

 

19, 20. What are the origins of toasting?

 

19 A common practice at weddings and other social occasions is toasting. During a toast, one person expresses good wishes while others raise their glasses. How should Christians view toasting?

 

20 The International Handbook on Alcohol and Culture says that toasting probably comes from an ancient pagan custom “in which a sacred liquid was offered to the gods.” This was done “in exchange for a wish, a prayer summarized in the words ‘long life!’ or ‘to your health!’” In ancient times, people used to raise their cups to ask their gods for a blessing. But that is not how Jehovah provides blessings.—John 14:6; 16:23.

 

 

Keep yourselves in God's love: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/celebrations-holidays-that-displease-god/

 

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TOASTING—A RELIGIOUS GESTURE?

19, 20. What does one secular source say about the origin of toasting, and why is this custom unacceptable to Christians?

19 A common practice at weddings and on other social occasions is toasting. The 1995 International Handbook on Alcohol and Culture says: “Toasting . . . is probably a secular vestige of ancient sacrificial libations in which a sacred liquid was offered to the gods . . . in exchange for a wish, a prayer summarized in the words ‘long life!’ or ‘to your health!’”

20 True, many people may not consciously view toasting as a religious or superstitious gesture. Still, the custom of lifting wine glasses heavenward might be viewed as a request to “heaven”—a superhuman force—for a blessing in a way that does not accord with that outlined in the Scriptures.—John 14:6; 16:23. 

Now we focus more on this principle: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102003687

 

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When considering whether to include a piñata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the consciences of others. (1 Corinthians 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues. The Bible says: “Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person.”—1 Corinthians 10:24.

 

[Ostria]

On 7/8/2025 at 6:09 PM, Brazilian2024 said:

It seems like this topic will never end...🫢😅🫠😶‍🌫️

 

Forgive me brothers...but it must be done

 

[Ivar]

On 7/4/2025 at 4:07 PM, Dages said:

Unlike toasting, that isn't found in the Bible, all the occurrences of birthdays in the Bible are negative.

I would not expect that.

  

On 7/5/2025 at 2:42 AM, jwzhang said:

Someone already mentioned that birthdays from the Bible all have a negative connotation.

  

On 7/5/2025 at 8:35 AM, Sebastian said:

4. the two biblical birthdays ended badly

  

On 7/5/2025 at 7:31 PM, Jwanon said:

As for early Christians, Origen wrote in the 3rd century:
"Of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below." (Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495)

  

On 7/7/2025 at 1:34 PM, Dages said:

And birthdays are not cool in the Bible.
toasts aren't really in the Bible.

 

Here are the two birthdays mentioned in the Bible: 

 

1. Genesis 40:20-22 20  

 

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Now the third day was Pharʹaoh’s birthday, and he made a feast for all his servants, and he brought out both the chief cupbearer and the chief baker in the presence of his servants. 21  And he returned the chief cupbearer to his post of cupbearer, and he continued to hand the cup to Pharʹaoh. 22  But he hanged the chief baker, just as Joseph had interpreted to them.

 

2. Mark 6:19-28

 

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He·roʹdi·as was nursing a grudge against him and wanted to kill him, but she could not. 20  For Herod was in fear of John, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man, and he was keeping him safe. After hearing him, he was at a great loss as to what to do, yet he continued to hear him gladly. 21  But a convenient day arrived when Herod spread an evening meal on his birthday for his high officials and the military commanders and the most prominent men of Galʹi·lee. 22  And the daughter of He·roʹdi·as came in and danced and pleased Herod and those dining with him. The king said to the girl: “Ask me for whatever you want, and I will give it to you.” 23  Yes, he swore to her: “Whatever you ask me for, I will give it to you, up to half my kingdom.” 24  So she went out and said to her mother: “What should I ask for?” She said: “The head of John the Baptizer.” 25  She immediately rushed in to the king and made her request, saying: “I want you to give me right away on a platter the head of John the Baptist.” 26  Although this deeply grieved him, the king did not want to disregard her request, because of his oaths and his guests. 27  So the king immediately sent a bodyguard and commanded him to bring John’s head. So he went off and beheaded him in the prison 28  and brought his head on a platter. He gave it to the girl, and the girl gave it to her mother.

 

Regarding pharaoh's birthday, it is possible that it was not his real birthday but a symbolical one. I found this in an academic article after doing a Google Scholar search:

 

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Despite the fact that Genesis 40:20 speaks of amnesty on the occasion of “the pharaoh’s birthday”, the current discourse in Egyptology does not permit a notion of a feast dedicated to a pharaoh’s birthday prior to Achaemenid Empire and the epoch of the Ptolemies (the 26th Dynasty). What we read about Egypt in the story of Joseph reflect historical realities not prior to the Saite Period, and it must be noted that birth dates of pharaohs were never recorded as such. Amnesties were declared on occasions of dates on which kings had assumed power. A birth festival is mentioned in the Rosetta and Canopus Decrees in three languages: in Egyptian it literally means “opening of the year (= new year) of his majesty” [6, p. 209–214; 7, p. 205–206; 8, p. 89–91; 9, p. 59, 64]. Here I would like to acknowledge the help of I. V. Bogdanov, a scholar of Egyptian studies, for briefing me on the matter.

https://aasjournal.spbu.ru/article/view/1208/1047  page 283, footnote 2

 

 

If that is true, there is only one mention of a natural birthday in the Bible (i.e. Herod's).

I did a quick search after remembering something about dogs.
https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=dogs&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fbible%3Fsort%3Dbook%26q%3D

 

So, dogs are also not presented in a positive light in the Bible. How do you all think this relates to birthdays?

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Ivar said:

If that is true, there is only one mention of a natural birthday in the Bible (i.e. Herod's).

Thank you for your research Br. Ivar.  And welcome to our forum.