Great Greek Dilemma

[New World Explorer]

On Sunday, Greece will vote on a landmark referendum: "Yes" or "No" to another bailout. http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/04/news/economy/greece-crisis-101/index.htmlsterity? In Greek, that's "Nai" or "Oxi?

 

What's at the root of Greece's problem?

Debt. Greece has way too much of it. Greece is not a big country. It has about 11 million people and an economy the size of Oregon's. Tourism represents around 16% of Greece's economic output.

 

What are Greece's options now?

There aren't many. The debt is still there and Greece's economy has gotten worse this year. The country's banks are almost out of money.

Because Greece is on the euro -- a currency used by 19 countries -- it doesn't set the value of its money. So it can't turn to an age-old response by countries with too much debt: devaluation. Devaluation means using the levers of finance to make money worth less. When money is devalued, the cost of debt goes down.

Bankruptcy is also not an option for Greece. Companies deep in the red can ask a judge to help them get lenders to accept less than they are owed. There is no bankruptcy court for countries.

The other way a country can get rid of debt is if the economy grows. But Greece owes so much compared to the size of its economy, it would take a miracle for that to work anytime soon.

 

How big is Greece's debt? 

Greece owes around €56bn to Germany, €42bn to France, €37bn to Italy, and €25bn to Spain.

 

Where is the money ?

The Greek Orthodox Church owns property worth some €700 billion – more than double the country's national debt.

 

Future?

Also, the merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full cargo anymore...... and the splendid things have vanished from you, never to be found again. Revelation 18:11-14

 

 

 

[Dustparticle]

 HEY!!  I'm broke too!! So, should I rob the bank or the church?

[New World Explorer]

 HEY!!  I'm broke too!! So, should I rob the bank or the church?

Go for the church ..they are less protected   

[Jodievt]

I always thought a global economic collapse would force countries to turn on them. The great depression only had 5 countries in depression and that was bad. But then you have terrorism. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Tortuga]

 HEY!!  I'm broke too!! So, should I rob the bank or the church?

That's like asking if you should buy a ticket on the Titanic or the Andrea Doria. They are both sinking....

[Dustparticle]

I always thought a global economic collapse would force countries to turn on them. The great depression only had 5 countries in depression and that was bad. But then you have terrorism. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I thought the same way sis. I think it will be more just an economic collapse. Jehovah is going to punish and destroy BTG.

[hatcheckgirl]

It is interesting too that the economic authorities are now in "uncharted waters", as nothing like this has ever happened before in the Eurozone.  Apparently, there is no mechanism if a country wants to leave the EU.  If Greece chooses to leave the EU, they are doing it without a set of agreed procedures, so they will leave behind a very big mess.  That is why the rest of Europe is waiting and scratching it's collective head.  What to do now?  Can they really let Greece just walk off with so much debt?  Who will be next?

 

I feel very sorry for the people in Greece who are stuck in this situation due to the greed and corruption of firstly, banks and secondly their own govt.  All gotta go!  Will the Greek people now pay more attention to the witnesses, especially since their own church has also let them down?  It would be nice to think that more people would find comfort from Jehovah's message, wouldn't it?

[Jodievt]

Greece votes No. So now it'll be interesting to see how what happens now

[Dustparticle]

 here is the latest http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/05/news/economy/greece-crisis-referendum-results/index.html

[Tortuga]

Hmm...I wonder if I should buy some old drachmas.....

[helenrose70]

I was thinking how are the brothers coping there.

[seagull]

One of the fundamental problem the Greeks have is that tax evasion has been endemic for years at all levels.  Everyone from corporations to little old ladies has been at it for as long as anyone can remember.  The Greeks have a far worse record of tax collection than any other nation in the EU, or economically developed nations in general.

[Dash21]

That 700 billion Euros of Church assets is stunning to hear about, considering Greece's national debt. 

 

If Greece can't or won't make an extension of liquid transfer, within the European Union; or if it cannot 'squeeze' the assets of commercial or religious holdings, to extract what they require to pay their debt; then, default is the obvious fallback solution for them.

 

Even with the crushing U.S. debt, the U.S. could pay off Greece's entire debt, by writing a fiat check, and then own Greece's goodwill and possibly modest returns.- it would be like a drop in the bucket.  

 

But is anybody on the sinking ship willing to give up one of their own 'life vests', to save another?

Is everyone holding on to as many as they can, thinking that will keep them alive, as the ship takes a nose dive?

No one seems interested in canceling debt, even when they can.

So they owe, they pay, they collapse, they insist on payment.

 

Okay, it's not that simple.

But Jehovah doesn't work that way.

He has cancelled our debt to Him, and spent his own treasured 'capital', in order to do it.

[hatcheckgirl]

One of the fundamental problem the Greeks have is that tax evasion has been endemic for years at all levels.  Everyone from corporations to little old ladies has been at it for as long as anyone can remember.  The Greeks have a far worse record of tax collection than any other nation in the EU, or economically developed nations in general.

 

Which is why they shouldn't have been allowed to join the EU in the first place.  But clever manoeuvrings by the then govt, and the assistance of Goldman Sachs got them over the line.  Ultimately, the Greek govt not governing the people judiciously, along with the greed of wealthier banks and wealthier nations in the EU broke Greece (as in it's "broken" and they're "broke").

 

Proverbs 22:7 The rich one rules the poor, And the borrower is a slave to the lender.

Nothing truer than this.

 

I feel for the brothers and sisters as they cannot be shielded from the desperation that the collapse of their economy will bring.  How hard it must be for them, but especially for the population living in the cities.  Those in the countryside, where my relatives live, and those on the islands frequented by tourists are at this stage less affected.  The simple, self-sufficient lifestyle of the villages is a bit more of a buffer, compared to the city dwellers with mortgages and loss of jobs and pensions.  How do they make ends meet?

[seagull]

So what would the consensus be if the Greek Government wanted to impose taxes on religious organisations?  Assuming all organisations were being treated equally then would it be wrong if the organisation took steps to reduce the tax liability?  I don't mean anything illegal, just use of the rules to ensure reduced liability.

[trottigy]

This is a nice sum up - if you are following this - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32332221

 

 

he European Union has worked hard to cordon off the banking difficulties of one member state from the other 27. But the Greek debt crisis is widely seen as the biggest threat to the eurozone so far.

 

The IMF has warned that "risks and vulnerabilities remain" and a sharp fall on markets worldwide is widely expected.

 

Grexit could leave the ECB with losses of €118bn lent to Greek banks and €20bn spent on buying up Greek government bonds.

 

As a central bank, the ECB could simply print the money to recapitalize itself, but that is considered anathema to Germany.

 

But there is more at stake than the markets. Several governments facing anti-euro movements are watching developments in Greece nervously.

 

anathema - vehement disagreement with or dislike of something

Edited July 8, 2015 by trottigy

[ChocoBro]

The Greek problem hasn't even started yet in my opinion.

 

With the pensions about to be cut (pensions that ARE oftentimes ridiculously high, and yet pensions that entire families are dependent on because there are NO jobs) and the Value Added tax set to be raised by 10%, people will very quickly be forced into far more dire straights.

 

The Nazi parties have been gaining traction in the last decade. And the people Tsipras has callously removed from their positions recently have the sympathy of a lot of people there.

 

It seems Greece is split into two parts. Those who think it is best to remain in the EU and that will be able to afford more austerity and higher taxes, and those who are afraid these draconian measures will destroy them completely.

 

I think we will be seeing riots on the streets quite soon.

[stargazer]

A famous American Economist has stated that "America is the next Greece".

 

SEE LINK http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Peter-Schiff-Greece-politicians-promise/2015/07/06/id/653711/

[Dash21]

These disturbing warnings have been increasing in number and intensity for- it seems-  several years, now.

 

One report says that economic collapse will be a "slow decay", with shaky periods and difficult downturns.  But most seem to warn of a sudden and drastic economic trauma, linked to overpowering debt load, major default and the end of the dollar as the world reserve currency, caused by a serious lack of confidence, and the faltering world economy.

 

China appears to be experiencing a serious economic trauma, itself, now, as its own fiat system constructs 'ghost economies' that depend on mega-level expansion, to maintain GDB growth.  It's famous 'ghost cities' are finally beginning to attract inhabitants, but their local economies are still barely operating, and China's oversupply problem is finally threatening to burst the nation's economic bubble.

 

I have absolutely no idea if any of this will lead to a real, immediate meltdown, but it is nothing to wish for.

[LeslieDean]

That 700 billion Euros of Church assets is stunning to hear about, considering Greece's national debt. 

 

If Greece can't or won't make an extension of liquid transfer, within the European Union; or if it cannot 'squeeze' the assets of commercial or religious holdings, to extract what they require to pay their debt; then, default is the obvious fallback solution for them.

 

Even with the crushing U.S. debt, the U.S. could pay off Greece's entire debt, by writing a fiat check, and then own Greece's goodwill and possibly modest returns.- it would be like a drop in the bucket.  

 

But is anybody on the sinking ship willing to give up one of their own 'life vests', to save another?

Is everyone holding on to as many as they can, thinking that will keep them alive, as the ship takes a nose dive?

No one seems interested in canceling debt, even when they can.

So they owe, they pay, they collapse, they insist on payment.

 

Okay, it's not that simple.

But Jehovah doesn't work that way.

He has cancelled our debt to Him, and spent his own treasured 'capital', in order to do it.

 

Could you perhaps forward this in an email to the Greek government????

Edited July 29, 2015 by LeslieDean

[Dustparticle]

 All 

 

 I would not worry about to mush. Jehovah will take care of us.