The planet Venus

[Tortuga]

I’m curious about the planet Venus.

 

Let’s assume that Jehovah was in the process of making other planets habitable before Adam sinned and his original purpose was for mankind to eventually inhabit the planet Venus. Let’s also assume that purpose did not change when Adam sinned and Venus is still following the same creative process that the planet Earth did except Venus is still in the early stages of development.

 

Let’s say for the sake of discussion that Jehovah had intended for mankind to eventually inhabit the planets within this solar system and although he could have simultaneously created several of them to be inhabitable, he decided to stagger the process, first he started developing the Earth, then part way through that he started developing Venus, then part way through that he started developing Mars.  

 

With that in mind, where would Venus be in what we know of the creation process? Which Creation Day?

Does the current state of Venus show us what the Earth looked like during its creation process?

Does the canopy around Venus help us to understand what the water canopy around the Earth may have been like?

What would be the next step in Venus development?

[On the huh]

For Venus to support life it will need a life-supporting atmosphere and water, and be a lot cooler, so it would need some sort of heat protection from the Sun.

 

I don't know if Jehovah intends any of the planets in our solar system to be inhabited.  The earth is just right for life in all manner of aspects, that the other planets are not or even possible to be.  Like the distance from the Sun.   Other planets will just be too hot or too cold for life.  Although I did hear about Mars could be made warmer by creating a sort of greenhouse effect.

Maybe in other solar systems.   Getting Earth ready for life took millions of years, maybe other planets are already in that process.

[Tortuga]

Getting Earth ready for life took millions of years, maybe other planets are already in that process.

 

That's my point. If Venus is in that process, does it show us what the earth was at one time?

 

We know Venus needs to be cooler and needs an atmosphere, was the earth just like that at one time? 

 

It seems logical that Jehovah would allow mankind to go to other planets and that has been discussed in other threads, it also seems logical that mankind would first expand to the local planets before we would extend out to other solar systems. It seems logical that the local planets would be in various stages of development and waiting for mankind to inhabit them.

 

So if we look at Venus now (Mars later) what does it tell us about the development of the Earth? 

[Shawnster]

Venus would be about Day 2.  Maybe 3.  I'd lean more toward 2.  We've said that on Day 3 the luminaries "appeared" because the cloud cover thinned out enough to allow the light to reach the planet.  I'm not sure if light is reaching the surface of Venus or not.  

 

The next step for Venus is to thin that atmosphere and convert it to an oxygen atmosphere.  

 

I doubt Venus would have been the next location.  It's too hot.  Metals are at their melting point and run like liquid.  It's simply not in the "Goldilocks Zone."

 

 

Mars, on the other hand, is much better suited than Venus.  Mars orbits into the "Goldilocks Zone" every year.  Summer temperatures on Mars reach 70F.  

 

After reading the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, I think it's quite possible to terraform Mars to make it suitable for humans (and animals) to exist on the surface without artificial aid.  Further, I think that will be Jehovah's direction - extend Eden to another planet.  Mars is better suited for this task.

 

What we would need to do to make Mars habitable is basically follow the outline in Genesis.

 

1.  Mars needs a thicker atmosphere.  This can be done in part by melting the polar ice caps.  Those caps are frozen carbon dioxide.  Additional carbon dioxide can be provided by crashing comets into the planet.  These comments will also deliver water and other trace elements.  The water will remain frozen until the planet warms.

 

2.  Once Mars gets a thick enough atmosphere (to allow proper atmospheric pressure) the next step is to convert that carbon dioxide atmosphere into oxygen.  This is what Jehovah did when he caused the vegetation to appear.   You seed a carbon dioxide planet with plants.  These plants will convert the CO2 into oxygen.  You start with simple plants like algae and fungus and gradually grow until you are introducing trees and plants like ferns and so on.

 

3.  At the same time, the planet needs to be warmed up.  This can be done by placing mirrors in orbit or giant lenses in orbit to focus and concentrate the sun's rays.  This will warm the planet.  On the other hand, if we don't warm Mars that won't be a deal-breaker.  Like I said, the current temps can reach a pleasant 70F in summer.  We'd just have to contend with the bitter death-dealing cold during the winter.  Not much different than a day on Mt. Everest now.  Bundle up in that parka.  Once the planet warms and the atmosphere thickens, the frozen water delivered by the comets will melt and form rivers and oceans and lakes.  The water cycle will begin and rain will start to fall.

 

4.  After the planet is warmed, and the atmosphere is converted to oxygen, and the freshwater has formed oceans and rivers, it's time to seed animal life.  Again, you start with simple animals, single celled life and then progress to sea life before finally introducing land animals and, lastly, man.  Again, this is the outline in Genesis.  Jehovah introduced sea life first then land life.  

 

Sorry to steal your topic, brother.  You were concentrating on Venus and I've steered it toward Mars.  It's just that Venus will always be too hot for terrestrial life.  Water cannot exist in liquid or solid form at the temperatures we see on Venus.  Of course, others disagree as you can see:  http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=846

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Shawnster

[jwhess]

Br. Richard, Venus spins very slowly and may have a solid core which does not produce much of a magnetic field around the planet.  So it has no protection from the "solar wind".  The surface temperatures are around 900 deg F and the pressures are around 1300 PSI.  The atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide (with nitrogen and sulfuric acid).  And it has no water.

 

The point is, that God's creation of the physical universe and our solar system in particular may have started in the same way (the sun forms, its gravity pulls material into planetary rings, accretion forms solid planets and so on) but given the type of material, its temperature and pressure, its distance from our sun, they all develop differently.  I would not expect each planet (here or somewhere else) to follow  the same exact pattern or "creative days".  This planet Earth was carefully molded by the Creator to be just as it is.  The other places are beautiful for what they are.

[Shawnster]

I suppose a big sun shade could be made to help cool Venus.  That would block the light, too.  

 

The biggest issue is the temperature.  Overcome the temperature and the other issues might take care of themselves.  

 

We would also have to reduce the air pressure on Venus drastically.

 

1. 90 atmospheres

    
2. The pressure of Venus' atmosphere at the surface is 90 atmospheres (about the same as the pressure at a depth of 1 km in Earth's oceans). It is composed mostly of carbon dioxide. There are several layers of clouds many kilometers thick composed of sulphuric acid.

[ChrisC]

I don't see anything in the Solar System that would make a good Earth 2.0 given enough time. The gravity strength is another thing that is wrong, and I assume we would need an abundance of other life forms to look after.

It just all sounds wrong to me.

[Shawnster]

We'd bring the life forms with us.  

 

You are right about the gravity issues.  

 

Venus gravity is 0.9 of Earth.  Close enough for comfort.

 

Mars gravity is 0.38 of Earth.  That would take some getting used to (and might cause long-term problems)

 

Moon gravity is 0.16 of Earth.

[Dustparticle]

I’m curious about the planet Venus.

 

Let’s assume that Jehovah was in the process of making other planets habitable before Adam sinned and his original purpose was for mankind to eventually inhabit the planet Venus. Let’s also assume that purpose did not change when Adam sinned and Venus is still following the same creative process that the planet Earth did except Venus is still in the early stages of development.

 

Let’s say for the sake of discussion that Jehovah had intended for mankind to eventually inhabit the planets within this solar system and although he could have simultaneously created several of them to be inhabitable, he decided to stagger the process, first he started developing the Earth, then part way through that he started developing Venus, then part way through that he started developing Mars.  

 

With that in mind, where would Venus be in what we know of the creation process? Which Creation Day?

Does the current state of Venus show us what the Earth looked like during its creation process?

Does the canopy around Venus help us to understand what the water canopy around the Earth may have been like?

What would be the next step in Venus development?

 

 I wish I saw this post earlier. Not all planets will be inhabited because it will be dangerous for us to live.  If it wasn't for Jupiter, then our planet will get hit by astroids all the time. Thank God for Jupiter. Jehovah knows what planets will be safe enough us to live at and it will not be all of them.

[Shawnster]

 I wish I saw this post earlier. Not all planets will be inhabited because it will be dangerous for us to live.  If it wasn't for Jupiter, then our planet will get hit by astroids all the time. Thank God for Jupiter. Jehovah knows what planets will be safe enough us to live at and it will not be all of them.

Your chocolate would melt on Venus

[Tortuga]

I appreciate all of the comments and facts. 

 

I'm familiar with the Goldilocks Zone and that Venus would need a lot of changes to be habitable, however since I've never watched a planet being formed (other than on Star Trek), is it possible that this is all part of the process?

 

I'm trying to understand if Divine assistance, not miraculous intervention, would eventually make Venus habitable and if it is reasonable to assume that is Jehovah's purpose for the planet.

[Tortuga]

I don't see anything in the Solar System that would make a good Earth 2.0 given enough time. The gravity strength is another thing that is wrong, and I assume we would need an abundance of other life forms to look after.

It just all sounds wrong to me.

 

Then a supplementary question would be; why is it here?

 

Assuming that Jehovah intends for mankind to expand to other planets, why create planets in our own backyard that we can't use?

 

Wouldn't it be logical to make them available for mankind?

[Dustparticle]

Your chocolate would melt on Venus

And I freeze it on Pluto.

[Tortuga]

And I freeze it on Pluto.

How do you keep chocolate on your planet Dusty?

[jpcook]

I’m curious about the planet Venus.

 

Let’s assume that Jehovah was in the process of making other planets habitable before Adam sinned and his original purpose was for mankind to eventually inhabit the planet Venus. Let’s also assume that purpose did not change when Adam sinned and Venus is still following the same creative process that the planet Earth did except Venus is still in the early stages of development.

 

Let’s say for the sake of discussion that Jehovah had intended for mankind to eventually inhabit the planets within this solar system and although he could have simultaneously created several of them to be inhabitable, he decided to stagger the process, first he started developing the Earth, then part way through that he started developing Venus, then part way through that he started developing Mars.  

 

With that in mind, where would Venus be in what we know of the creation process? Which Creation Day?

Does the current state of Venus show us what the Earth looked like during its creation process?

Does the canopy around Venus help us to understand what the water canopy around the Earth may have been like?

What would be the next step in Venus development?

 

I think both Venus and Mars are in the first creative days process, however, Mars would be closer to being able to support life... it needs an atmosphere closer to earth's.  Then it needs water and a canopy as earth had earlier before the Flood... too much radiation on Mars.  I think I would like to visit as a tourist, but I prefer earth as a home.

[AH173]

I appreciate all of the comments and facts. 

 

I'm familiar with the Goldilocks Zone and that Venus would need a lot of changes to be habitable, however since I've never watched a planet being formed (other than on Star Trek), is it possible that this is all part of the process?

 

I'm trying to understand if Divine assistance, not miraculous intervention, would eventually make Venus habitable and if it is reasonable to assume that is Jehovah's purpose for the planet.

This is a nice topic. I'm sure Jehovah has a great purpose in having the sun, planets, moons, asteroid belt and other things that he created in this solar system (let alone for physical universe). From my Bible reading /understanding - I won't limit what the Creator can and will do for what limited imperfect humans call a habitable zone. Jehovah creates the universal laws that determine gravity, atmosphere, water, protective magnetic and radiation shields to protect his human and non human life that sustains us all. I won't limit what things he can maneuver to allow a flourishing life on any planet anywhere for us humans to live on.

What man states (for now) is what appears to them without consideration of Jehovah's universal purpose - intelligent human life and non human life forms will bring praise to Jehovah for eternity.

Job 38

Then Jehovah answered Job out of the windstorm:a

2 “Who is this who is obscuring my counsel

And speaking without knowledge?

3 Brace yourself, please, like a man;

I will question you, and you inform me.

4 Where were you when I founded the earth?

Tell me, if you think you understand.

5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,

Or who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,

Or who laid its cornerstone,

7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,

And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

8 And who barricaded the sea behind doorsg

When it burst out from the womb,

9 When I clothed it with clouds

And wrapped it in thick gloom,

10 When I established my limit for it

And put its bars and doors in place,

11 And I said, ‘You may come this far, and no farther;

Here is where your proud waves will stop’?

12 Have you ever commanded the morning

Or made the dawn know its place,

13 To take hold of the ends of the earth

And to shake the wicked out of it?

14 It is transformed like clay under a seal,

And its features stand out like those of a garment.

15 But the light of the wicked is held back from them,

And their uplifted arm is broken.

16 Have you gone down to the sources of the sea

Or explored the deep waters?

17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you,

Or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

18 Have you understood the vast expanse of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all of this.

19 In which direction does the light reside?

And where is the place of darkness,

20 That you should take it to its territory

And understand the paths to its home?

21 Do you know this because you were already born

And the number of your years is great?

22 Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,

Or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 Which I have reserved for the time of distress,

For the day of battle and war?

24 From what direction is light dispersed,

And from where does the east wind blow on the earth?

25 Who has cut a channel for the flood

And made a path for the thunderous storm cloud,

26 To make it rain where no man lives,

On the wilderness where there are no humans,

27 To satisfy devastated wastelands

And cause the grass to sprout?

28 Does the rain have a father,

Or who fathered the dewdrops?

29 From whose womb did the ice emerge,

And who gave birth to the frost of heaven

30 When the waters are covered as if with stone,

And the surface of the deep waters is frozen solid?

31 Can you tie the ropes of the Kiʹmah constellation

Or untie the cords of the Keʹsil constellation?

32 Can you lead out a constellationa in its season

Or guide the Ash constellationb along with its sons?

33 Do you know the laws governing the heavens,

Or can you impose theira authority on the earth?

34 Can you raise your voice to the clouds

To cause a flood of water to cover you?

35 Can you send out lightning bolts?

Will they come and say to you, ‘Here we are!’

36 Who put wisdom within the clouds

Or gave understanding to the sky phenomenon?

37 Who is wise enough to count the clouds,

Or who can tip over the water jars of heaven

38 When the dust pours into a mass

And the clods of earth stick together?

39 Can you hunt prey for a lion

Or satisfy the appetites of young lion

40 When they crouch in their lairs

Or lie in ambush in their dens?

41 Who prepares food for the raven

When its young cry to God for help

And wander about because there is nothing to eat?

[trottigy]

Maybe if Venus could get pushed into the same orbit as earth (or the same for mars)?

[JSmith]

If we had looked at the earth 4 billion years ago no doubt we would have said it didnt have the right conditions for life. It was too hot, the air composition wasnt right, it spun too fast, etc. Initially the earth was "formless and desolate"

What made it perfect for life was Jehovah. I think the OP has an interesting idea.

[Tortuga]

Maybe if Venus could get pushed into the same orbit as earth (or the same for mars)?

 

If we base this discussion on the assumption that everything, except mans rebellion, is proceeding according to plan, then Venus is where he wants it.

 

My personal thoughts are that Jehovah is developing Venus for us to inhabit eventually. We may be currently seeing a variation of what he did to develop Earth. I think that Jehovah has shown such a variety in his creation that even the completed planet Venus will be different from Earth. Maybe the gravity, light, temperature, vegetation, animal life, will all be different but still a paradise, just different.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Tortuga

[Tortuga]

If we had looked at the earth 4 billion years ago no doubt we would have said it didnt have the right conditions for life. It was too hot, the air composition wasnt right, it spun too fast, etc. Initially the earth was "formless and desolate"

 

Exactly what I am thinking. I wonder if we could go back in time if Venus looks like the Earth did millions of years ago.

[On the huh]

The bible speaks of how the angels rejoiced when Earth was completed.  Just think, if Jehovah does turn his attention to making the other planets habitable, we will be there and rejoicing too.

[AH173]

Maybe the gravity, light, temperature, vegetation, animal life, will all be different but still a paradise, just different.

Probably 'different' but from Genesis account it will be 'GOOD' - good from Jehovah's standpoint and obviously to us humans too! Lol ☺

[Tortuga]

Probably 'different' but from Genesis account it will be 'GOOD' - good from Jehovah's standpoint and obviously to us humans too! Lol ☺

I think about the endless variety of things to learn on the earth but if Jehovah gave me the opportunity to move to a different planet with a completely new concept of plants and animals, I'd move in a heartbeat.

[Old]

I’m curious about the planet Venus.

 

Let’s assume ...

 

 

How does this speculative discussion fit into the "Deep Bible Research Forum"?

Still waiting for the Bible part.

   

[Tortuga]

How does this speculative discussion fit into the "Deep Bible Research Forum"?

Still waiting for the Bible part.

   

 

The premise was how does the current state of the planet Venus fit in the progression of the creative days.

 

Should this discussion be moved to a different forum?