The new Boeing 737 MAX: two crashes in six months

[New World Explorer]

The 737 MAX, a new plane from US aircraft manufacturer Boeing, faces fresh scrutiny of its safety record after being involved in two crashes in six months.

The single-aisle airliner, which undertook its first commercial flight in May 2017, came under the spotlight in October last year in the wake of a fatal accident in Indonesia.

Lion Air Flight 610 vanished from radar shortly after taking off from Jakarta on October 29, crashing into waters off the north coast of Java Island and killing all 189 people on board.

About 30 relatives of the crash victims have since filed lawsuits in the United States against Boeing, alleging that faults with the new airliner, including with its anti-stalling system, led to the deaths.

Its main competitor is the Airbus A320, which is also designed for short and medium-haul flights.

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/The-new-Boeing-737-MAX-two-crashes-in-six-months/1056-5018414-tfig6qz/

 

There is no suggestion yet as to what caused the latest disaster, and no evidence that the two incidents are linked in causality.

What is known, however, is that both flights took place on the Boeing 737 MAX 8 -- a new model recently unveiled to great fanfare by the US aviation giant, that saw its first flight less than two years ago.

"It's highly suspicious," said Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and the former Inspector General of the U.S. Transportation Department. "Here we have a brand-new aircraft that's gone down twice in a year. That rings alarm bells in the aviation industry, because that just doesn't happen."

"The similarities with Lion Air are too great not to be concerned," Schiavo said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/10/africa/ethiopian-airlines-crash-boeing-max-8-intl/index.html

 

No 737 Max for me.... too scared.

Would book Airbus instead.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Gregexplore

[Qapla]

I'll stick to riding the train

Edited March 11, 2019 by Qapla

[Skye]

Wonder whether the USG suspected something would happen on 10th:

 

https://et.usembassy.gov/security-alert-demonstration-in-meskel-square-and-the-oromia-region-8-march-2019/

Quote

U.S. Embassy personnel are advised to avoid Meskel Square and limit movement around Addis Ababa on Sunday, March 10.   U.S. Government travelers have been advised not to arrive or depart Bole International Airport on Sunday, March 10, and U.S. Embassy personnel are also temporarily prohibited from traveling to Oromia.

 

Then had a change of mind:

 

https://et.usembassy.gov/security-alert-addis-ababa/

Quote

U.S. Government travelers may arrive or depart from Bole International Airport on Sunday, March 10.  This updates the Security Alert sent on March 8, 2019. 

 

[tuntun]

Indonesian airplane - Lion Air JT 610 which crashed at october 2018 into the waters

family of the passenger's victim suing Boeing company in large numbers. Thanks to the help of American's lawyers.

They claimed the Lion Air airplane crashed due not because of engine damage.

because the aircraft that have been used was only 2 months old after being sent from America.

 

a family and also one of my neighbor lost a younger brother. before it their older brother also died in an accident. leaving only one child left.

[New World Explorer]

China Orders Airlines to Ground All Boeing 737 Max 8 Aircraft

BEIJING — Responding to the second crash of a Boeing 737 Max 8 soon after takeoff in less than five months, China ordered its airlines on Monday morning to ground all 96 of the aircraft that they operate.

The Civil Aviation Administration of China noted in its announcement of the grounding that both the Ethiopian Airlines crash on Sunday and a Lion Air crash in Indonesia in late October had involved very recently delivered Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft that crashed soon after takeoff.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/business/boeing-737-max-8-aircraft-crash-china.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[ivy]

I was with boeing 737-800 last week...

And, airbus a320 yesterday

Edited March 11, 2019 by ivy

[tuntun]

56 minutes ago, ivy said:

I was with boeing 737-800 last week...

And, airbus a320 yesterday

I had flown with an earlier edition; boeing 737-700 max, to fulfill the invitation of a beautiful sister to come to Batam Island in the early of 2015.

it was the first time I got on an airplane. an unforgetabble memory ...

Edited March 11, 2019 by tuntun

[tuntun]

8 hours ago, Qapla said:

I'll stick to riding the train

trains are less suitable for countries with many islands.

here people often travelling by airplane to visit different islands because it is the only fastest transportation.

(could took weeks by ships).

[Dustparticle]

They should ground that plane worldwide. Why not? GREED!!!

[Qapla]

I can fully understand WHY people use planes ... I was just stating my personal preference ... I prefer trains - and since I do not live on an island, trains and cars work just fine for me.

[tuntun]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

I can fully understand WHY people use planes ... I was just stating my personal preference ... I prefer trains - and since I do not live on an island, trains and cars work just fine for me.

Of course, trains are also one of the most favorite type of inter-province transportation.

During the big holidays it's hard to get a seat.

if you have more money you can travel by a luxury train to cross the cities with more facilities (like sitting on the airplane at business class).

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by tuntun

[tuntun]

2 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

They should ground that plane worldwide. Why not? GREED!!!

Not that easy.

One of the largest private airlines in Indonesia (Lion Air) has signed a contract to purchase almost 200 of these new type aircraft.

If they cancel the deal there will be sanctions from Boeing. Only less than a dozen new planes have arrived.

But Lion Air is trying to cancel the entire purchase of this plane.

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by tuntun

[Katty]

I would not be worried too much about this.
Absolute worst case scenario maybe there is something wrong with the plane, and it's not so safe. I promise, if that is the case, airlines around the world will be thoroughly investigating this plane for this simple reason that Airlines do not want to fly planes that crash, even once a year. Even if they don't necessarily have the passenger's best interest at heart, and are motivated by greed, it neither serves an airplane manufacturer any good to produce planes that are even marginally unsafe, as they runt he risk of airlines dropping that model  en masse and airlines absolutely don't want to fly planes that are marginally unsafe because a single airplane crash can lose and airline millions of dollars. Yes, they have liability insurance, but that would only cover property loss and possibly settlements paid out. It doesn't cover all the cost of a plane crash, such as possible loss of crew, the lack of a plane to generate income for a while, and all the other hidden expenses of a plane crashing, not to message the extra money the airline has to pay out if passengers, or in the case of a crash with no survivors, the family members of passengers, end up suing the airline for more than their settlement. Even if cost weren't the issue, I'm sure it's a massive headache for an airline to deal with the aftermath of a crash and it takes time away from operations that are geared towards marketing and the main objective of turning a profit. Also, crashes, especially multiple crashes for a single plane or airline creates a PR nightmare in which the company can lose a lot of money due to loss of trust by the public in that particular plane or airline.

At any rate, flying is not only the safest way to travel. It's the safest way to travel by a rather wide margin. There is a reason for that, as I had stated. It costs way less money for plane manufacturers and airlines to keep their planes safe and in the air than risk even a relatively small number of crashes.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Katty

[Naturale]

It used to be that pilots would be flying the planes whereas now the computers are flying many of them instead. Computer malfunctions lead to plane crashes.  Modern technology eh.

[tuntun]

7 hours ago, Naturale said:

It used to be that pilots would be flying the planes whereas now the computers are flying many of them instead. Computer malfunctions lead to plane crashes.  Modern technology eh.

could be

 

The family of passengers on the Lion Air JT 610 plane sued Boeing - the manufacturer of the 737 MAX-8 aircraft used in the unfortunate accident.

the victim's family accused Boeing of not giving enought instructions to the pilot on how to manually turn off the anti stall system. the cause of the crash of the plane shortly after takeoff.

 

stall: when an aerofoil can not make enough lift to keep the aircraft in flight.

[Lewis]

Anytime anyone flies, it is a gamble your taking, you just never know. The odds may be that flying on a plane is still a safe way to travel, but just having one plane crash is imo is too many. 

 

I’ve been on an airplane to Texas one time and we had really really bad turbulence on the way to Dallas Airport, and let me tell you that trap feeling you get when something like this happens, there is nothing you can do but hope that there are good pilots on board that know how to navigate the plane.

 

Im with Qapla on Trains, I prefer the alternative if i can.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Lewis

[New World Explorer]

1 minute ago, Lewis said:

I’ve been on an airplane to Texas one time and we had really really bad turbulence on the way to Dallas Airport,

I went to sleep during major turbulence on Qantas over India

Describe major? ..ok ... bags..loose items on the floor everywhere, one crew lady kept sliding for 10 m on the floor hitting chair (blood, she got hurt..)

Call me crazy but I just gave up and went to sleep (actually fell asleep) turbulence lasted 1 hour on and off (we hit the edge of major weather situation)

When I woke up, the plane was smooth again and landed in London just fine. 

Planes are built to withstand turbulence, I fly often.  (trains crush as well... )

[tekmantwo]

On 3/10/2019 at 5:51 PM, Qapla said:

I'll stick to riding the train

Haha, that is a funny gif. What happens when the wheels slip and spin real fast?

 

Got seatbelts?...😎

[Naturale]

8 hours ago, tuntun said:

could be

 

The family of passengers on the Lion Air JT 610 plane sued Boeing - the manufacturer of the 737 MAX-8 aircraft used in the unfortunate accident.

the victim's family accused Boeing of not giving enought instructions to the pilot on how to manually turn off the anti stall system. the cause of the crash of the plane shortly after takeoff.

 

stall: when an aerofoil can not make enough lift to keep the aircraft in flight.

Sounds a bit similar to the Air France 447 crash

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Air-France-Flight-447-Damn-it-were-going-to-crash.htm...

[tuntun]

18 hours ago, Naturale said:

Sounds a bit similar to the Air France 447 crash

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Air-France-Flight-447-Damn-it-were-going-to-crash.htm...

some media report the accident occured due not the engine's malfunction but because pilot's error.

the pilot left the cockpit to take a nap because he had been up all night with his mistress, and returned when it was too late to avoid catastrophe.

[tuntun]

On 3/12/2019 at 1:28 AM, Katty said:

At any rate, flying is not only the safest way to travel. It's the safest way to travel by a rather wide margin. There is a reason for that, as I had stated. It costs way less money for plane manufacturers and airlines to keep their planes safe and in the air than risk even a relatively small number of crashes.

statistics show traveling by airplane is  much safer than driving by land transportation. but people often feel air travel are more dangerous because of the perception of risk. 

(there are no additional safety facilities in the event of damage to the aircraft).

different from the ships that has many lifeboats. and since the trains are divided into many passenger cars, fatal accidents usually only affect on the front car.

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by tuntun

[Qapla]

41 minutes ago, tuntun said:

people often feel air travel are more dangerous because of the perception of risk. 

 

There are also those of us that simply do not like heights!

 

It has nothing to do with our perception of the risk or the safety record of air travel. It simply comes down to an "irrational fear" - the fear of heights.

 

The same way that some of us cannot work on a roof or on a ladder, we cannot or will not fly.

 

My preference to ride the train is not because I think planes are unsafe - I like trains  and I do NOT like heights!  

[ivy]

49 minutes ago, Qapla said:

 

There are also those of us that simply do not like heights!

 

It has nothing to do with our perception of the risk or the safety record of air travel. It simply comes down to an "irrational fear" - the fear of heights.

 

The same way that some of us cannot work on a roof or on a ladder, we cannot or will not fly.

 

My preference to ride the train is not because I think planes are unsafe - I like trains  and I do NOT like heights!  

And, the fear of being helpless...

[Skye]

Just heard from friends that one of our sisters (from a congregation in Rome) was in that plane. We pray for comfort for her family, congregation. May Jehovah remember her in the resurrection. (If this is the case, I am sure we will hear about it on the breaking news on JW.org.)

[tuntun]

9 minutes ago, Skye said:

Just heard from friends that one of our sisters (from a congregation in Rome) was in that plane. We pray for comfort for her family, congregation. May Jehovah remember her in the resurrection. (If this is the case, I am sure we will hear about it on the breaking news on JW.org.)

ethiopian airlines?