The new Boeing 737 MAX: two crashes in six months

[tuntun]

I have tried searching for manifest on that airplane (ET-302). but apparently there are no Italians who are Jehovah Witnesses.

most are workers for the United Nations

[Skye]

Yes, the ET flight that crashed on Sunday.

Out of respect for the family's privacy and and sensitivity for their grief at the moment, I would prefer not to discuss this further.

(P.S. Congregations are made up of friends 'out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.')

[Naturale]

2 hours ago, ivy said:

And, the fear of being helpless...

And the fear of nose dives

[tuntun]

here, airline ticket prices are more frightening than 'nose diving'

[Thesauron]

Meanwhile, people here are slightly confused. A city bus running on biogas exploded when it hit a concrete structure. These busses are usually filled with over 100 people. This one was empty but the driver, who got out but got severely burnt. Had it been filled with people, there is no chance they would have gotten out in time - so bad was the explosion and fire. So what people are confused about is why these busses are still trafficking streets in Europe, but this plane type is not allowed to.

[Old]

10 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

There are also those of us that simply do not like heights!

 

It has nothing to do with our perception of the risk or the safety record of air travel. It simply comes down to an "irrational fear" - the fear of heights.

 

The same way that some of us cannot work on a roof or on a ladder, we cannot or will not fly.

 

My preference to ride the train is not because I think planes are unsafe - I like trains  and I do NOT like heights!  

I fear heights. Different circumstances agravate that fear. Really tall ladders 24' plus bring out that fear, if I have a secure structure in front ome I can contain that fear. Working high-rise construction is ok if I have a harness and face the structure, I avoid looking down. The edge of the Grand Canyon terrifies me.

Now that being said I have little fear of heights while in an airplane large or small, having held a pilots license for 50 years (currently very in-active.) The only time my fear of heights has bothered me while strapped in a plane seat is once when I decided to see how high I could go in a Piper Cub. At 13,000 feet there was little apparent movement, the nose was slightly up and I was irrationally overcome witth a fear of falling, I put the nose down and went home. On the other hand stepping off a 300 ft cliff underneath a hang glider did not bother me at all. 

[tuntun]

@Thesauron

because it is rare for a car to explode and caused many casualties. usually the one that often explodes is a fuel truck.

Edited March 13, 2019 by tuntun

[tuntun]

7 minutes ago, Old said:

I fear heights.

I even find it difficult to replace 8-foot high lights without the help of ladder

[Thesauron]

[mention=7786]Thesauron[/mention]

because it is rare for a car to explode and caused many casualties. usually the one that often explodes is a fuel truck.

Yes, well, this was a commuter bus with the potential to carry over 100 passengers that got stuck in a place where many other vehicles have gotten stuck before. The citizens of Stockholm could see themselves sitting on that bus while it exploded. The comparisons to the airplane crash were many... Of course, people don’t want to be afraid to go to work... Many with me are quite certain that we will see such an explosion with a lot of casualties in time. Of course, it doesn’t dismiss the airplane accidents, but it made many here think that a similar accident could have happened on our own streets with a common commuter bus. I don’t think it had dawned on a lot of people before.

[hatcheckgirl]

It's officially on JW.org news now.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/ethiopia/Sister-Killed-in-Ethiopian-Airlines-Plane-Crash/

 

There is another thread started

Prayers to Jehovah for the sister's family and her congregation.

[tuntun]

i'm really sorry to hear that

[New World Explorer]

French air crash investigators say ‘clear similarities’ between Boeing 737 MAX crashes

The BEA investigators found that the sensor readings in both flights were similar.

In the US, a group of engineers with the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing claimed over the weekend that Boeing downplayed safety concerns surrounding the MCAS system in a bid to bring the 737 MAX to market before rival Airbus launched its own next-generation narrow body aircraft.

The engineers also claimed that the FAA delegated much of the 737 MAX’s safety testing to Boeing itself, and were content to trust the company’s conclusions. Other air safety regulators around the world then certified the MAX 8 based on the FAA’s thumbs up.

The US Department of Transportation is now investigating the FAA’s approval of the aircraft, the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday. Federal prosecutors have reportedly issued a subpoena to at least one person involved in the development of the 737 MAX.

https://www.rt.com/news/454132-investigators-boeing-crashes-similar/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=RSS

 

[Paradise-Lover]

Walking remains my most preferred means of moving from one point to another, though civilization has rendered that oldest and "safest" channel ridiculous now😀 ...  I see why Jehovah not only likes to walk but also invites us to come walk with him!  Lol...It's a spiritual venture that never leads to regrets.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Chuka

[Dages]

I've watch some video about it, visibly the plane has a default that cannot be repaired... I wouldn't use Boeing if I had to go to the US.

[New World Explorer]

1 hour ago, Dages said:

I've watch some video about it, visibly the plane has a default that cannot be repaired... I wouldn't use Boeing if I had to go to the US.

Any Boeing? Or just 737 max? 

[Old]

I have no problem with the 737max, I have no problem with Airbus, I do have a problem with pilot training that does not teach the first commandment of flight. FLY THE AIRPLANE!

There is a reason why the the plane keeps nosing down, something is moving the trimming device. 'Hey guys look at you trim wheel it is spinning like mad the wrong direction.' How to stop it? Grab it, it stops. Not by continually pulling back on the control yoke, The circuit breakers are right below the trim wheels for obvious reasons, flip the breaker off, FLY THE AIRPLANE!

Trim wheels on the 737 are maybe 10 to 12 inches in diameter located beside the pilot and fist officers knee, there are two of them, each black wheel has a large white section on the rim to make it obvious that is is spinning, that is the main safety feature. The one Boeing only installed on request was a warning light on the instrument panel that basicaly said look down trim needs attention. 

Here is a real life example of a failure to fly the airplane:

A student pilot in our club was on his first cross country (a requirement). on a 40 mile leg, North Bent to Florence, Oregon, he felt the plane trying to descend, so he cranked in nose up trim, the pressure to descend seemed to be increasing so he gave it more nose up trim and the plane descends even steeper, so more nose up trim. He he now struggled with the controls and his arms were getting tired from pulling the nose up.  For the last time he cranked the trim to the full nose up stop.  At full power and full trim up he couldn't hold the plane up and the same thing happened as in the two 737MAX accidents, he crashed. Amazingly he clipped the top of a sand dune destroying the plane but surrvive realatively intact.  How long did this take? About four minutes. His problem? He was cranking nose down trim, not nose up trim and he failed to look at the trim indicator. Thankfully he gave up flying and our club took a beating on the insurance that put us out of business. 

Here is someone that knows what he is talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmJ1U2M_Q&app=desktop

 

[Dages]

2 hours ago, Gregexplore said:

Any Boeing? Or just 737 max? 

The 737 max. I would not be able to explain it in English though. ^^

Edited March 25, 2019 by Dages

[rocket]

2 hours ago, Old said:

I have no problem with the 737max, I have no problem with Airbus, I do have a problem with pilot training that does not teach the first commandment of flight. FLY THE AIRPLANE!

There is a reason why the the plane keeps nosing down, something is moving the trimming device. 'Hey guys look at you trim wheel it is spinning like mad the wrong direction.' How to stop it? Grab it, it stops. Not by continually pulling back on the control yoke, The circuit breakers are right below the trim wheels for obvious reasons, flip the breaker off, FLY THE AIRPLANE!

Trim wheels on the 737 are maybe 10 to 12 inches in diameter located beside the pilot and fist officers knee, there are two of them, each black wheel has a large white section on the rim to make it obvious that is is spinning, that is the main safety feature. The one Boeing only installed on request was a warning light on the instrument panel that basicaly said look down trim needs attention. 

Here is a real life example of a failure to fly the airplane:

A student pilot in our club was on his first cross country (a requirement). on a 40 mile leg, North Bent to Florence, Oregon, he felt the plane trying to descend, so he cranked in nose up trim, the pressure to descend seemed to be increasing so he gave it more nose up trim and the plane descends even steeper, so more nose up trim. He he now struggled with the controls and his arms were getting tired from pulling the nose up.  For the last time he cranked the trim to the full nose up stop.  At full power and full trim up he couldn't hold the plane up and the same thing happened as in the two 737MAX accidents, he crashed. Amazingly he clipped the top of a sand dune destroying the plane but surrvive realatively intact.  How long did this take? About four minutes. His problem? He was cranking nose down trim, not nose up trim and he failed to look at the trim indicator. Thankfully he gave up flying and our club took a beating on the insurance that put us out of business. 

Here is someone that knows what he is talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmJ1U2M_Q&app=desktop

 

 

From what I've seen on Air Disasters, Smithsonian Channel, they don't teach pilots to fly the plane, they teach them to monitor a computer flying the plane.  Many of the pilots in the air now have never landed a large plane with out the radar guided glide slope and many of even experienced pilots have little time and experience flying without auto pilot.

[Cushi]

2 hours ago, rocket said:

 

From what I've seen on Air Disasters, Smithsonian Channel, they don't teach pilots to fly the plane, they teach them to monitor a computer flying the plane.  Many of the pilots in the air now have never landed a large plane with out the radar guided glide slope and many of even experienced pilots have little time and experience flying without auto pilot.

There’s a 91 year old elder in my congregation who’s a retired pilot and used to teach flight school. He owned his own airplane and would say this all the time. He really knows how to fly a plane.

[New World Explorer]

5 hours ago, Old said:

I have no problem with the 737max, I have no problem with Airbus, I do have a problem with pilot training that does not teach the first commandment of flight. FLY THE AIRPLANE!

There is a reason why the the plane keeps nosing down, something is moving the trimming device.

The engines are the problem and manufacturer tried to compensate this with software. The engines are set slightly higher and further forward than on previous 737s.

I do have a problem with 737 Max, will not fly this aircraft in the future.

[Lewis]

Number 11 trending on YouTube at the moment, an easy to understand explanation of what the issue was with the Max 737-8

 

 

[Lewis]

The video didn’t mention about once you are in a dive and turn off the mcas you have to hand crank the trim wheel to level or the flap that is still in dive mode will stay in dive mode. Had the pilots done this, they would have prevented the plane from crashing.

[Qapla]

Interesting video ...

 

Early in the video the narrator made a comment at about 1:10 saying, "you have probably on one" - Not ME! I don't fly

 

I have been to NY twice, once to visit Bethel and once to work at Warwick ... both times I took the