Can Men and Women be "Just Friends"? (The Difference Between Men and Women)

[Amygdala]

I was single throughout my 20's, and was on my own since I was 17/18, so although I had a great time being single and enjoyed hanging out with the singles crowd and going on trips, I remember those lonely days or months when I was in transition moving congregations, and living 4,500 kms away from home without having made any close friendships at that point. So when I did meet a brother at a restaurant one day, we just clicked and hit it off. But I viewed him as a brother, as I wasn't interested. Looking back it was selfish of me, but I appreciated having his company, and we often hung out on weekends, and he came to my congregation to visit a few times. Not until after a few months of hanging out, did he finally get the courage to ask me out, but I just kind of continued talking about other subjects until he gave up. We remained friends and still are to this day, and I was a bridesmaid at his wedding. After he started dating his wife at the time, I did feel a void, but after again changing congregations, I ended up in my congregation where I met a sister in my situation, same age, and we even worked not far from each other in the same town. I felt like Jehovah was taking care of me, as we became joined at the hip, always hanging out. She would save a seat for me at the meeting if I came later, and vice versa. Weekends we also planned things and trips together. But I do remember those weeks or months where regular visits to Rogers Video were my weekend plans.

 

Jehovah knows our needs. He often brings us the right persons at the right times, when we need it, but we have to be open to it I often notice. Even being married, I have seen myself being more open to persons that I would normally at first find off-putting, only to find out they have become one of my loyal and close friends. Sure, nothing is perfect. No one person will fill all your needs, mentally or emotionally, either single or married.

 

I think that is the danger about seeking viewpoints of the opposite sex. The few cases I have seen of df'ing were, yes, older ones, but they were married. They began a mutual friendship with a single brother or sister, even often spent time with them even in the company of their spouses, and this led them down the path of betrayal and being disfellowshipped sadly. I have seen former elders, elder wives, pioneers, assembly speakers sadly gone down that path. So although I sympathize with you, I think it's a tricky rope to wanting to get into deep conversation with someone else's husband, as as we can see above, the majority of men might see it more than just deep conversation if they are talking to another woman.

 

Nothing is easy in this system, but I think it's even harder when you add communication misunderstandings on top of that. I think talking to family members or relatives of the opposite sex is probably the safest route to go.

[Amygdala]

Regarding that brother I used to hangout with, I put limits on our communication, even though we are both married. I don't get into the "deep talk" we used to do when we were both single. So on messenger, if he has a whole morning free and wants to chat, and I know his wife is at work, I will keep it brief.

[Sister Twister]

19 minutes ago, Lieblingskind said:

I have seen former elders, elder wives, pioneers, assembly speakers sadly gone down that path. So although I sympathize with you, I think it's a tricky rope to wanting to get into deep conversation with someone else's husband, as as we can see above, the majority of men might see it more than just deep conversation if they are talking to another woman.

Wholeheartedly agree , , I had the most loyal of husbands but I wouldn't have wanted to thinking of him having deep conversations with a sister , but was quite happy for sisters to share our family time but only talking confidentially with me , which he and I might discuss but not to him.

[Hope]

1 hour ago, Maria Keerie said:

I can see that but also could be the case some have had such a bad situation in the past , they don't  want to take that chance again .

or conversely

have had such a good partner , they wouldn't want to risk anything less .

so I guess that takes those categories out of the picture for sister like you .

Well yes, obviously. 

 

For what it's worth, it seems men are much more open to trying again- regardless of their past experiences. Recall, it was Adam whom Jehovah said needed a helper, not Eve. 😉

 

Most women I know (both in and out of the Truth) are more content to remain single if they had a very good husband first.  

[Sister Twister]

48 minutes ago, Lieblingskind said:

Regarding that brother I used to hangout with, I put limits on our communication, even though we are both married. I don't get into the "deep talk" we used to do when we were both single. So on messenger, if he has a whole morning free and wants to chat, and I know his wife is at work, I will keep it brief.

There are friends that end up like truly like brothers  aren't there , I had a friend like that and I work for him now .

2 minutes ago, Hope said:

Well yes, obviously. 

 

For what it's worth, it seems men are much more open to trying again- regardless of their past experiences. Recall, it was Adam whom Jehovah said needed a helper, not Eve. 😉

 

Most women I know (both in and out of the Truth) are more content to remain single if they had a very good husband first.  

oh yes I agree , they need more looking after ! so don't you give up there's a good one out there perhaps x 

[Hope]

As for having friends of the opposite sex, that's always been a struggle for me, as I get along better with men.. especially since I've always been head of my household. I find I have more in common with men, with husbands more than wives, and it definitely, DEFINITELY can be troublesome. 

 

It backfires on me when a brother thinks I'm too much like one of his guy friends to feel romantically towards me.. I'm not a mysterious, flirty female and evidently that takes all the fun out of things. 🤪  So I keep my thoughts about new tires,  basketball and jazz bands to myself 

[Amygdala]

Self-censorship is not a bad thing in life. ☺️

Edited December 31, 2020 by Lieblingskind

[Hope]

1 hour ago, Lieblingskind said:

Self-censorship is not a bad thing in life. ☺️

Very true! 😁  I'm just not sure what to talk about, then 😔

 

It's probably why I don't talk much to anyone 

[.Ivan.]

I can be friends with a woman who I don't like physically and who is much older than me and doesn't have any emotions between us ... but they are actually superficial friends or acquaintances. strong friendships with the opposite sex I could not ..

[Cushi]

On 12/30/2020 at 2:28 PM, EccentricM said:

Behold the difference between men and women's brains.

 

 

 

 

Steve Harvey also says it well

 

 

 

In my experience, it has happened to every single young and attractive female friend I've had. The only answer to it is to be a "distant" friend, where you speak "now and again". The moment you begin bonding like "BFFs" (best friends) where you hang out, do everything together, have everything in common... its over, you want her, all or nothing.

 

Only female friends I have now are the ones who are distant. Exceptions to the rule are women you don't at all find attractive, be it through persona (in which case you're not even friends at that point), physical looks or age.

 

I've tried to remain very close friends with girls in the past who rejected my romantic advancements, didn't go well at all and was just a world of pain, heartbreak, yearning and unrequited love, no matter how hard you try to stamp out those feelings. I find most of the time you just gotta walk away.

 

 

It's not surprising in this view, of why in ancient society, men and women were so often segregated in terms of social clubs, dances (with exception to courting dances) and so on (not that I'm promoting such extreme practices, but its "understandable").

 

 

I agree 100% percent with Steve Harvey. A lot of women who have male “friends” are totally oblivious to the fact that those men are waiting for an opportunity. I know when I was in the world I had several female friends... only because I was waiting for an opportunity. I can have female acquaintances and enjoy their company but not a real friends because men and women think totally different and I feel like we don’t have enough in common to be friends unless there’s the prospect of courting. 
 

I have wondered if men and women were meant to be close friends without any romantic feelings. And if that is the case, would it be inappropriate for a married person have a friend of the opposite sex in the new world after reaching perfection?

[JennyM]

1 hour ago, *Jack* said:

I agree 100% percent with Steve Harvey. A lot of women who have male “friends” are totally oblivious to the fact that those men are waiting for an opportunity. I know when I was in the world I had several female friends... only because I was waiting for an opportunity. I can have female acquaintances and enjoy their company but not a real friends because men

Like a lion in an ambush?

1 hour ago, *Jack* said:

I have wondered if men and women were meant to be close friends without any romantic feelings. And if that is the case, would it be inappropriate for a married person have a friend of the opposite sex in the new world after reaching perfection?

Depends on how close you are I think.... Perfection doesnt protect us from sin. Ex. Adam and Eve and the angels.. We have to know the boundary. Its like respecting the physical laws. 

 

There will be platonic relationship if a man and a woman talk often because its how God created us. Man and woman have to become one.. There will be friendship I think but not friendship that will go to the deepest level. 

[JennyM]

[Cushi]

23 minutes ago, JennyM said:

Like a lion in an ambush?

Sort of. Kind of like how lions are always watching and waiting for an opportunity. That’s how I was with my female friends. Just waiting for an opportunity to slide my foot in the door 🤓 

[Sister Twister]

9 hours ago, Hope said:

Very true! 😁  I'm just not sure what to talk about, then 😔

 

It's probably why I don't talk much to anyone 

Thats so difficult for you, but good that we have the truth can always have something to say about lates broadcast etc x

[Hotteok]

Interesting question.

I have a few females friends and the key point is that we both should not have any romantic feelings towards one another.

If one party has it, it fails. 

For example, if I have romantic feelings for a sister I know I should be just a friend with, I can't resist it and start acting weird.

It's something I just can't handle.  

 

But I wonder if this is how things will be in the NW. 

I can't imagine a single brother having to put distance between every female person (which will be very many)...

or maybe that IS how it'll be. People might be more careful with people of the opposite sex and the only person of the opposite sex that they spend most time with or get any close to will be his/her spouse.

Sounds terribly boring now but also quite romantic too.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by VisualizeUrParadise

[Katty]

18 hours ago, Hope said:

 

That's why my dream of a singles section on jw.org would be a good thing. The principles in YPA work but the application is different for older people. It's not wise to pin these misunderstandings to only young people... I've known many more older ones df'd for immortality than kids... 😔

Absolutely, I was friends with a widow in her 60's who was disfellowshipped for immorality, and what led her to it was the same things that probably would for a young person: bad association, getting caught up in overindulgence in alcohol, and having a negative view of the congregation.

[Katty]

In my case, when I was pioneering, I was close friends with a single brother who was also a pioneer in my congregation. He's a really open person who talks things out, which was really good for our friendship, because yes there were misunderstandings and fears that would stem up of one of us giving the other the wrong impression. If he wasn't such an open person, that could have destroyed our friendship, or if he was a less mature person, he could have just withdrawn without communicating the issue and we could have just ended up growing apart.
Eventually, we did grow apart slowly after he went to Bethel, because over time, he received more responsibilities, so he didn't have so much time to chat. I've seen him on Zoom a few months ago to introduce him to David; I'm considering inviting him and his family to a get together in the near future to play games. We'll see what happens.
 

Anyway, my point is, for friendships between men and women to work, it takes a lot of boundaries, including emotional boundaries, good communication, a certain level of maturity, and, overall, a good attitude, I think. Even then, many will likely still choose not to forge close friendships with members of the opposite sex for various reasons. I think our situation was pretty unique, and I never really had a somewhat close platonic relationship with anyone since then, except for one person, but since it was a long distance sort of thing, it was easier to have those emotional boundaries than if he lived in the same area as myself; it was not long after that, also, that I met my David. David and I were friends for a month, as well, before we started dating, and we video chatted nearly every day before we did as well.

[Amygdala]

1 hour ago, VisualizeUrParadise said:

For example, if I have romantic feelings for a sister I know I should be just a friend with, I can't resist it and start acting weird.

It's something I just can't handle. 

It happens to sisters, too, and with someone I know, it got to the point where she got very angry at the brother for apparently leading her on. But she read into everything he did or even didn't do as an expression of his apparent interest, though there really was none.

 

1 hour ago, VisualizeUrParadise said:

But I wonder if this is how things will be in the NW.

I think of Jesus example with Martha and Mary. Pure, chaste and loving.

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101997403?q=older+women+as+mothers&p=par#h=15

 

 

Quote

 

—1 Thessalonians 4:3-6.

This is demonstrated by Jehovah’s Witnesses throughout the world. They respect God’s high standards for Christian men and women. Older men are looked upon as fathers, “younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters with all chasteness.” (1 Timothy 5:1, 2) What a wholesome environment for young men and women to enjoy as they reach their full potential, unencumbered by pressures to date and marry prematurely or by sexually transmitted diseases! The active Christian family, strengthened by the Christian congregation, is a safe haven in a sex-mad world.

Applying Bible principles in their lives, Christian youths are free from a compulsion for sex and find joy in paying attention to the admonition given in God’s Word: “Rejoice, young man, in your youth, and let your heart do you good in the days of your young manhood, and walk in the ways of your heart and in the things seen by your eyes. But know that on account of all these the true God will bring you into judgment. So remove vexation from your heart, and ward off calamity from your flesh; for youth and the prime of life are vanity.”—Ecclesiastes 11:9

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Lieblingskind

[Amygdala]

Also from the same article:

 

Quote

 

Successfully Facing the Challenge

Do not allow the contemporary obsession with sex to distort your view of life and spoil your opportunity for a full and happy future. Meditate on the numerous examples of human relationships in the Bible. Be assured that life and love remain vibrant and meaningful well after the teen years. When this reality is thoughtfully addressed in harmony with the divine will for Christian men and women, then the foundation is laid for an intimate and lasting union of two people in love.

As you examine Bible couples such as Jacob and Rachel, Boaz and Ruth, and the shepherd boy and the Shulammite maiden, you will see an element of sexual attraction in their relationships. However, as you carefully read Genesis chapters 28 and 29, the book of Ruth, and The Song of Solomon, you will notice that there are other important elements that enrich such relationships.*

 

 

[Amygdala]

I think, too, a strong desire for sex, although referred to in the bible as part of "the desires of youth" (2 Tim.2:22) isn't necessarily limited to young people or only under a certain age group. So although directed mostly to young ones, it's beneficial counsel applies to all age groups.

[EccentricM]

55 minutes ago, Lieblingskind said:

I think, too, a strong desire for sex, although referred to in the bible as part of "the desires of youth" (2 Tim.2:22) isn't necessarily limited to young people or only under a certain age group. So although directed mostly to young ones, it's beneficial counsel applies to all age groups.

Its why when interested in someone, it's good to ask yourself; "if sex didn't exist, would I still be interested in being with them for life?". A very good indicator if your love is genuine, and also ask yourself if you can list both positives and negatives about the individual, yet accept, understand and love them for who they are (to ensure your view is realistic, and its not just some mad crush you have where they are perfect and you're in a "honeymoon phase" of affections based upon shallow surface things).

Edited January 1, 2021 by EccentricM

[M.J.]

14 hours ago, EccentricM said:

Its why when interested in someone, it's good to ask yourself; "if sex didn't exist, would I still be interested in being with them for life?". A very good indicator if your love is genuine, and also ask yourself if you can list both positives and negatives about the individual, yet accept, understand and love them for who they are

I'm going to top this. When dating someone and contemplating marriage, ask yourself, if the day after the wedding, they end up in a car accident as a quadriplegic, will I still love them and stand by them? Will I continue caring for them out of love, or will it be just a burden? And vice versa, would they stand by you?

[Hope]

On 12/31/2020 at 11:25 PM, *Jack* said:

Sort of. Kind of like how lions are always watching and waiting for an opportunity. That’s how I was with my female friends. Just waiting for an opportunity to slide my foot in the door 🤓 

Ironically, I can easily be friends with brothers I'd like an "opportunity" with and they're friends with me.  But none have ever taken the steps to make that opportunity a real thing.    I'm the one to eventually broach the subject... and get the "oh, we're just friends, I don't think of you that way!" 

 

I don't tend to get into close/regular conversations with brothers I couldn't see something more with. Mainly because I don't want to inadvertently give someone hope.  It's curious that others don't seem to have a problem with that. 🤷‍♀️ 

[Cushi]

3 minutes ago, Hope said:

Ironically, I can easily be friends with brothers I'd like an "opportunity" with and they're friends with me.  But none have ever taken the steps to make that opportunity a real thing.    I'm the one to eventually broach the subject... and get the "oh, we're just friends, I don't think of you that way!" 

 

I don't tend to get into close/regular conversations with brothers I couldn't see something more with. Mainly because I don't want to inadvertently give someone hope.  It's curious that others don't seem to have a problem with that. 🤷‍♀️ 

Yeah, I’ve noticed that women tend to be more open to having friends of the opposite sex without the prospect of a romantic relationship than men are. It would be nice to marry a sister that I was previously friends with or knew all my life, though 🙂

[Hope]

Quote

What a wholesome environment for young men and women to enjoy as they reach their full potential, unencumbered by pressures to date and marry prematurely or by sexually transmitted diseases! The active Christian family, strengthened by the Christian congregation, is a safe haven in a sex-mad world.

Applying Bible principles in their lives, Christian youths are free from a compulsion for sex and find joy in paying attention to the admonition given in God’s Word...

Depending on where you live, getting married young is a normal and not un-encouraged thing.  Most of the elders in my congregation were married before age 25; several were 18 or 19 years old.  Their wives were younger.  A young brother here just got engaged this past weekend... he is 20.  Everyone is delighted.

 

My son and I had an interesting conversation about this after hearing the news.  It's so very different to the culture we were brought up in. There were brothers who would refuse to marry a teenaged couple, that's how looked down upon young marriages were. There weren't a whole lot of other opportunities presented for young brothers and sisters 20-40 years ago.. pretty much pioneer (but don't get a full-time job) or go to Bethel (not for sisters... and not a lot of ideas on how to do that if you didn't have people in your congregation who went).  So if you didn't find someone after age 25 or so, you were pretty much stuck, especially if you didn't have spiritual friends to hang out with (there were very few in my son's or my age group at the time).  That's when the world becomes attractive.   That's no excuse, of course.  But it's not entirely true that "pressures to date" are not rife in the Christian congregation.  For many, that's what you do in order to settle down and focus on spiritual growth and progress.. together.

 

Those early married couples 20, 30, 40 years ago are now the bedrock of the congregations.