Can Men and Women be "Just Friends"? (The Difference Between Men and Women)

[EccentricM]

Behold the difference between men and women's brains.

 

 

 

 

Steve Harvey also says it well

 

 

 

In my experience, it has happened to every single young and attractive female friend I've had. The only answer to it is to be a "distant" friend, where you speak "now and again". The moment you begin bonding like "BFFs" (best friends) where you hang out, do everything together, have everything in common... its over, you want her, all or nothing.

 

Only female friends I have now are the ones who are distant. Exceptions to the rule are women you don't at all find attractive, be it through persona (in which case you're not even friends at that point), physical looks or age.

 

I've tried to remain very close friends with girls in the past who rejected my romantic advancements, didn't go well at all and was just a world of pain, heartbreak, yearning and unrequited love, no matter how hard you try to stamp out those feelings. I find most of the time you just gotta walk away.

 

 

It's not surprising in this view, of why in ancient society, men and women were so often segregated in terms of social clubs, dances (with exception to courting dances) and so on (not that I'm promoting such extreme practices, but its "understandable").

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by EccentricM

[JennyM]

It looks like women believe more that man and woman can be just friends .. But men are just waiting for an opportunity.. lol! Does it mean that women have more self control? or the friendship is just a hidden physical attraction?  Women are mens weakness?

 

We are applying that already in Asia.. No friendship between man and woman here.. It is frowned upon.. Younger generation is friendlier to guys but the older generation understood it as something else. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by JennyM

[Thomas Walker]

Men and women can just be friends, one one condition: It has to be what they both want. If one's carrying any kind of torch, it won't work for long.

 

JW's have an easier time of casual friendships because we're counselled not to get much closer than that, and because 'pursuing' each other without an eye to something permanent just isn't an option.

 

I don't know if words like 'friendzone' are more insulting to women or to men. Like the only reason I, as a male, would treat 50% of the population like people is because I expect something particular in return.

 

Case in point:

 

 

[tekmantwo]

https://images.app.goo.gl/3WXTZQP7F9CLkBCK8

 

Like this?

[Hope]

34 minutes ago, Thomas Walker said:

Men and women can just be friends, one one condition: It has to be what they both want. If one's carrying any kind of torch, it won't work for long.

 

JW's have an easier time of casual friendships because we're counselled not to get much closer than that, and because 'pursuing' each other without an eye to something permanent just isn't an option.

 

I don't know if words like 'friendzone' are more insulting to women or to men. Like the only reason I, as a male, would treat 50% of the population like people is because I expect something particular in return.

 

Case in point:

 

 

Interesting. I find that to be just the opposite because the only way to get to know if you want "more" is to become friends. If one reaches their decision one way or the other, pretty much all friendliness must be cut, otherwise there's possibly torch holding. Can you go back to being regular friends if feelings have been stirred? How can you be nice and relaxed again? 

 

You are now in the friend zone- and it's not fun (I'm always in it ). It's equally bad for men and women... but I do think it's easier for women to be "just friends" with men than vice-versa. 

[Thomas Walker]

11 minutes ago, Hope said:

It's equally bad for men and women... but I do think it's easier for women to be "just friends" with men than vice-versa. 

It is, and if you ask three people why, you'll get five answers.

 

Here's mine: Men do not 'open up' to friends. Male or female, we just don't get personal or emotional with them. I would even say we're trained not to. 

 

The exception to this rule; is intimate relationships. Guys will tell things to their girlfriends and their wives. People they are intimate with. For guys being 'more than friends' and being that open is the same thing.

 

Women will have open conversations on that level with 'just' friends. So when women start offering to listen, or even encouraging their guy friends to 'open up', what men see is an invitation. Because if they want to take it to the 'be open' level, then you're officially 'more than friends'.

 

The old joke is true: Men and women are different species, and it's a cruel joke that we all live on the one planet.

[JennyM]

Satan created these men without feelings. 

 

Jehovah is not like that... He created men in his image but then the image was lost.

Edited December 31, 2020 by JennyM

[Sister Twister]

Its very different in my view in. the truth ( not speaking form myself being in the older age group) but with the  younger wanting a relationship age group , they should be cautious of being friends outside a group scenario as one may be harbouring hope, and it is very cruel and perhaps even heartbreaking to see these hopes dashed.

 

I felt the above when my children were at the dating, friendship stage that they should NEVER single someone of the opposite sex out for attention unless they had serious intentions , I mostly noticed this with my eldest daughter she had a tendency to enjoy attention from brothers and had a very outgoing and lively personality , but we had to speak to her seriously as she was giving an impression and raising hopes towards people she wasn't interested romantically in.

 

It can sometimes be easier as an older sister to be motherly and be close to younger people but I would say that would usually apply to a older sister and a young sister and perhaps an older brother and a young brother.

 

But as was said initially , distantly or in groups all can be friends helping and encouraging others , young ,old , brothers , sisters - a lovely association with everyone bringing something special to the group. 

[Luisabola]

28 minutes ago, Maria Keerie said:

Its very different in my view in. the truth ( not speaking form myself being in the older age group) but with the  younger wanting a relationship age group , they should be cautious of being friends outside a group scenario as one may be harbouring hope, and it is very cruel and perhaps even heartbreaking to see these hopes dashed.

 

I felt the above when my children were at the dating, friendship stage that they should NEVER single someone of the opposite sex out for attention unless they had serious intentions , I mostly noticed this with my eldest daughter she had a tendency to enjoy attention from brothers and had a very outgoing and lively personality , but we had to speak to her seriously as she was giving an impression and raising hopes towards people she wasn't interested romantically in.

 

It can sometimes be easier as an older sister to be motherly and be close to younger people but I would say that would usually apply to a older sister and a young sister and perhaps an older brother and a young brother.

 

But as was said initially , distantly or in groups all can be friends helping and encouraging others , young ,old , brothers , sisters - a lovely association with everyone bringing something special to the group. 

I agree with this. Those with outgoing personalities can be misconstrued as being flirty, even though they’re not trying to be. So good that your daughter had wise parents to correct her before feelings were hurt. 

[EccentricM]

6 hours ago, Thomas Walker said:

 

 

I don't agree with him, I actually find what he says offensive and reeks of the modern attack of tradtional masculinity (labelled "toxic"), where these social/political agendas are trying to make just "being a man" (in his natural state) a crime, and begin attaching all this rubbish to it that all men are selfish and evil and are choosing to use women and see them as lesser. It's not about me or any man seeing women as "inferior" at all, it's purely instinctual. I've never seen any of my female friends as "less than human", and nor do I lack empathy, that's all that modern feminist rubbish. (Yes there 'are' men out there like that, who see women as just sexual tools, and is why they can't have a friendship, but this isn't about that).

 

This is about romance, and when it comes to a woman you find "attractive", there's just no off switch for those feelings, and so any hope of retaining a "friendzone" that she wants to have, it can only be achieved through distance in my experience. (Because believe me I've tried to be closest best buddies with a girl who wasn't interested in me romantically, but we had 'everything' else in common, and she was good looking to me, all I could think about is "I want to marry this woman", but she was clueless, she didn't "understand" why I felt that way, couldn't grasp what "romantic feelings" were on that level.

 

You see, she was puzzled over why I loved her at all, because she wasn't flirting, or being romantic on any level, she was just spending a lot of time with me, and we'd do 'everything' together, movies, games, talk, we'd make each other laugh 24/7, we'd never be apart from each other, but these are all things to a man, if coming from a woman he's attracted to... 'are' by 'definition' romantic gestures to him.  But it's not to her, to her that's just friendship, and that's the major difference between male and female. Translation and perception of intent and the meaning of actions toward a person on a personal level, not because one person is seen as inferior to the other, its a language, a preset translation filter that all these things pass through into the person's mind.

 

When I said to her "it's not because anything you've done, but because we're literally identical, I love you as a person, I could sit next to you doing nothing all day in silence and be happy, because your presense is enjoyable enough", she was very taken aback and was just confused over it. She had no clue (and this relates to the other thread I made about women these days not catching on to "romantic subtleties"), and didn't grasp that my undying attention, my favours, my gifts that I purchased her, my "verbal language" all of it was affectionate. But when I say it straight she's all of a sudden "wait what, really?" and that to me was bewieldering. But now I think, after seeing the difference of male and female mindsets, it becomes more clear, and women who are more inexperienced with men as a whole, and more so in this modern world, don't understand men, as much as many men don't understand women.

 

Male mind: the more time and one on one activities invested into the person = the more likely romantic intertest, which will lead and evolve into hand holding, kissing, etc.

Female mind: if we hold hands, kiss and talk of marriage = romantic interest. Anything else is translated as "friendship".

Edited December 31, 2020 by EccentricM

[EccentricM]

5 hours ago, Thomas Walker said:

Here's mine: Men do not 'open up' to friends. Male or female, we just don't get personal or emotional with them. I would even say we're trained not to. 

 

The exception to this rule; is intimate relationships. Guys will tell things to their girlfriends and their wives. People they are intimate with. For guys being 'more than friends' and being that open is the same thing.

I don't fit into that mould, I'm a very open man, with my male friends, as well to female equally.

 

So this:

Quote

Women will have open conversations on that level with 'just' friends. So when women start offering to listen, or even encouraging their guy friends to 'open up', what men see is an invitation. Because if they want to take it to the 'be open' level, then you're officially 'more than friends'.

Doesn't apply to me, I've never translated as such from women I've spoken with.

Edited December 31, 2020 by EccentricM

[Hope]

12 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

I don't fit into that mould, I'm a very open man, with my male friends, as well to female equally.

 

So this:

Doesn't apply to me, I've never translated as such from women I've spoken with.

But Matthew- you just described that entire scenario in your previous post. She was fine being just friends, laughing with you 24/7.  You wanted to marry her. 

 

You believe she didn't catch the romantic subtleties. In fact, you didn't catch that there were none at all from her direction. 

 

What you thought was a romantic situation did not register the same for her... because how she was friends with you was not unusual for her.  She may have been that way with everyone. For her likely- and for most women in general- if a man does not express clear romantic intent, gesture, words, we will not think you're interested in that way and will be amazed or annoyed if you think otherwise. 

 

Of course, it's often a very sad misunderstanding once all is revealed. I, for one, can tend to mistake kind interest and time spent for love.  But bottom line is that clarity is key. And assumptions are dangerous. 

[EccentricM]

13 minutes ago, Hope said:

ut Matthew- you just described that entire scenario in your previous post. She was fine being just friends, laughing with you 24/7.  You wanted to marry her. 

I meant specifically to the scenario of sharing personal thoughts and feelings with people . I'm not a "inner secrets" guy all that much, and I know women talk about personal things like that in general. As for the rest however, of course, I figured the "constant" attention, spending time, etc was something it wasn't. 

 

I mean this is my history with the person and what happened.. short as possible:

 

Many years ago, she liked me, I didn't like her, she tried to change my mind for a month, didn't work. We reuinited years later, and in that time she was constantly wanting my attention, buying 'me' gifts, games, etc, so we could spend time together. Some of her language was flirtatious (and I mean actually flirtatious, not something translated as), and she messaged me every day, couldn't be away from me. I put two and two together, "she must still like me..." and by this time, I changed my mind and I liked her now too...

 

So, that's when it all happend, and eventually I say "hey you know, I think we should get more serious.." and that's when her shock came into play, thinking all the time, gifts, and so on, was just friendship, and that took "me" aback in turn. I thought "why did you crave my attention so much and buy me so many things, and spoke about intimate things/sexual subjects at one point?" she answered me.. she was lonely, and had no or very few friends, and so I was filling that void, that need for "girl-friends", I had become such, where to me.. it was a romantic development from day 1 (especially considering our history). And that's what she didn't get, how her actions could be translated that way "indirectly", and didn't see my actions as such, even if I called her "hon, love", which she always accepted and called me "back", I'm a masculine man.. I don't use those terms to refer to "friends", but she mistook that as such. I say things like "I love spending time with you, I've missed you so much" and she'd respond with "me too", but.. no.. she doesn't realise when a MAN says that, it means something very different.

Edited December 31, 2020 by EccentricM

[JennyM]

Young people ask says that when a man and a woman spend time together, its dating. 

In Asia, I really would like to be a friend with a brother whom I see as spiritual.. At first, Im interested with friendship but he interpreted it as something else and the whole congregation is teasing us. Im longing for someone and Im considering him because hes spiritual but he and everyone ran ahead of my feelings.. Then I stop talking to him.  I didnt like the idea that the gossip about us was  faster than my romantic feelings. 

 

Prior to that, a single elder kept on calling me everyday for  5 months  and I expected something else.. seems like business call but then we were chatting even on weekends.  .. Lesson learned is that when a romantic feelings develop, its important to clear that with the other person.. 

 

Its really impossible for man and woman to be just friends.. In order to have close friendship with the opposite gender,marriage is the key .. 

 

 

[Sister Twister]

8 hours ago, Luisabola said:

I agree with this. Those with outgoing personalities can be misconstrued as being flirty, even though they’re not trying to be. So good that your daughter had wise parents to correct her before feelings were hurt. 

Its wasn't always easy !!! she hated us sometimes , her sister is so different never had a problem at all with her !! like you have said its all about the personality not always by intention.

[Sister Twister]

4 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 

 we'd do 'everything' together, movies, games, talk, we'd make each other laugh 24/7, we'd never be apart from each other, but these are all things to a man, if coming from a woman he's attracted to... 'are' by 'definition' romantic gestures to him.  But it's not to her, to her that's just friendship, 

I feel she should have suspected this , especially you got her gifts etc and perhaps she was young and inexperienced and didn't realise but perhaps a parent or someone who knew you both well should have mentioned it to her.

[Sister Twister]

4 hours ago, EccentricM said:

I meant specifically to the scenario of sharing personal thoughts and feelings with people . I'm not a "inner secrets" guy all that much, and I know women talk about personal things like that in general. As for the rest however, of course, I figured the "constant" attention, spending time, etc was something it wasn't. 

 

I mean this is my history with the person and what happened.. short as possible:

 

Many years ago, she liked me, I didn't like her, she tried to change my mind for a month, didn't work. We reuinited years later, and in that time she was constantly wanting my attention, buying 'me' gifts, games, etc, so we could spend time together. Some of her language was flirtatious (and I mean actually flirtatious, not something translated as), and she messaged me every day, couldn't be away from me. I put two and two together, "she must still like me..." and by this time, I changed my mind and I liked her now too...

 

So, that's when it all happend, and eventually I say "hey you know, I think we should get more serious.." and that's when her shock came into play, thinking all the time, gifts, and so on, was just friendship, and that took "me" aback in turn. I thought "why did you crave my attention so much and buy me so many things, and spoke about intimate things/sexual subjects at one point?" she answered me.. she was lonely, and had no or very few friends, and so I was filling that void, that need for "girl-friends", I had become such, where to me.. it was a romantic development from day 1 (especially considering our history). And that's what she didn't get, how her actions could be translated that way "indirectly", and didn't see my actions as such, even if I called her "hon, love", which she always accepted and called me "back", I'm a masculine man.. I don't use those terms to refer to "friends", but she mistook that as such. I say things like "I love spending time with you, I've missed you so much" and she'd respond with "me too", but.. no.. she doesn't realise when a MAN says that, it means something very different.

This is sad , as I think she behaved really badly and if she was my daughter I would have certainly told her so ! you had EVERY reason to believe she was interested , and so wrong to spend time and attention on someone to fill a void !  I think you were treated unfairly undeservedly and I hope a lovely serious minded sister finds you and treats you well.

[EccentricM]

8 minutes ago, Maria Keerie said:

This is sad , as I think she behaved really badly and if she was my daughter I would have certainly told her so ! you had EVERY reason to believe she was interested , and so wrong to spend time and attention on someone to fill a void !  I think you were treated unfairly undeservedly and I hope a lovely serious minded sister finds you and treats you well.

Well, I don't think she meant harm, just didn't realise what she was doing/how she came across was all, and she was quite sad over the whole ordeal.

Edited December 31, 2020 by EccentricM

[Sister Twister]

9 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

Well, I don't think she meant harm, just didn't realise what she was doing/how she came across was all, and she was quite sad over the whole ordeal.

Hopefully , she learned a lesson ! after I read this before going out this morning I met with my daughter in law , we were discussing a brother who is coming back to the zoom meetings and she told me that she was so happy as she had always thought she may have pushed him out of the truth , he fell in love with her and showed her attention , turning up at the cafe she worked at , sitting with her at the assembly . she knew although she liked him it wasn't in the right way but she's so timid she just didn't tell him .

 

She asked him to meet her at her work and he turned up with a huge bunch of flowers , which was awful as she just wanted to clear up that she wasn't interested .

 

Shortly after she fell madly in love with a brother who was a ministerial servant and regular pioneer , they went on the ministry together , he paid her a lot of attention , picked her up from work but one day because they hadn't actually said they were dating she asked him what his intentions were ... and he totally disappeared , ignored her calls , then he rang and asked her to meet and she thought it was because he had decided but he just asked her if she reported him to the elders because he had lost his privileges , she hadn't but someone had as apparently he had done this with many girls and the elders had observed this pattern of behaviour .

 

So I guess it sometimes goes both ways .

 

It seems the path of true love is not always smooth - but third time she met my son and they are so happy - so don't give up.

 

[Hope]

To a certain degree, young people don't hold the monopoly on not reading/giving proper signals or flirting.  Witnesses- especially those brought up around the Truth- tend to be fairly naive. One learns how to maneuver in the dating game by experience and many have little to none, no matter how old they are. I have very little experience and I'm 55.

 

The danger is that older ones *think* they know better, can handle themselves, don't need a group, separate cars- and who's gonna stop a grown person from chatting on the phone or hanging out til past midnight? 

 

That's why my dream of a singles section on jw.org would be a good thing. The principles in YPA work but the application is different for older people. It's not wise to pin these misunderstandings to only young people... I've known many more older ones df'd for immortality than kids... 😔

[Amygdala]

3 minutes ago, Hope said:

That's why my dream of a singles section on jw.org would be a good thing. The principles in YPA work but the application is different for older people. It's not wise to pin these misunderstandings to only young people... I've known many more older ones df'd for immortality than kids... 😔

I'm curious...what topics or questions would you like to be addressed that is geared to only older, single ones?

[Amygdala]

Ah...I just saw your thread...

[Sister Twister]

34 minutes ago, Hope said:

... I've known many more older ones df'd for immortality than kids... 😔

Do you know what your point is very valid , iv just added up who I know who this has happened to and far more older ones then youngsters ! I hadn't thought that would be the case!

[Hope]

14 minutes ago, Maria Keerie said:

Do you know what your point is very valid , iv just added up who I know who this has happened to and far more older ones then youngsters ! I hadn't thought that would be the case!

Older friends have either been married before and struggle with chasteness coz they know what they're missing, or they tend to feel their chances are less and less, so they give up/give in sooner. Perhaps more willing to settle for "at least this..."  😔  They’ve lived alone for a long time

 

Plus, they're more apt to be surrounded by attractive workmates who invite them out or eat lunch with them. Older singles are not invited quite as much in many congregations... just sayin' 🤷🏽‍♀️😔

Edited December 31, 2020 by Hope

[Sister Twister]

23 minutes ago, Hope said:

Older friends have either been married before and struggle with chasteness coz they know what they're missing, or they tend to feel their chances are less and less, so they give up/give in sooner. Perhaps more willing to settle for "at least this..."  😔  They’ve lived alone for a long time

 

Plus, they're more apt to be surrounded by attractive workmates who invite them out or eat lunch with them. Older singles are not invited quite as much in many congregations... just sayin' 🤷🏽‍♀️😔

I can see that but also could be the case some have had such a bad situation in the past , they don't  want to take that chance again .

or conversely

have had such a good partner , they wouldn't want to risk anything less .

so I guess that takes those categories out of the picture for sister like you .