Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[New World Explorer]

3 hours ago, Ahuvah said:

I shall ponder my sister. ❤️ 

I humbly think that any framework is irrelevant because for:

1. The framework does not include them handing over the power - no such thing is on the cards. 

2. They do not want to hand over power 

 

Any reform does not include any substance of relinquishing power. 

There is a framework for reform of UN and becoming more efficient but what is recorded in Rev 17:17 purely comes from Jehovah. 

To change things Jehovah will "force it" using his Holy spirit to happen.  (And Jehovah will change it regardless whether the framework exists or not) 

[New World Explorer]

There is a lot of anger in Australia over 25% steel tariffs imposed recently by USA 

The comments from government are encouraging to buy local (therefore not to buy US goods)  

Someone even mentioned to kick out US military bases. 

There is a lot of negative talk about America (a lot) 

Ordinary people float "boycot American goods" 

Conclusion: KOTS is divided now. 

Advice for God's people - Stay neutral.  

Edited March 13 by New World Explorer

[Shawnster]

Woah. I was worried about all of you. 24 hours and not a single post made in this topic. Glad to see everyone is OK. 

[Ahuvah]

4 hours ago, LeslieDean said:

It is 3am here. I just woke up and turned immediately to this post. So strange to awaken clear minded and rested. But what I wanted to say is the last half dozen comments triggered a conversation that I was listening to between  brothers at my old KH in Beverly Hills CA. It was around the year 2001, still new to the truth. I didn't fully understand their words but found it fascinating. One said that everything was already needed to attack religion was already set in place. All 'we' were waiting for was Jehovah to flip the switch in the leaders heart to attack. It all makes sense to me now. It made me think of a home being constructed. Lots of phases. Dig foundation, pour foundation, put up walls, install insulation, install  plumbing,, electric , roof, finishing touches.  Always delays -you never know where they will come from but you definitely know their coming, Then the moment arrives and it looks like everything is a go and boom no lights. Electrician called to check wiring. No problem noted. Then someone finally thinks to check the light bulb and climbs up ladder giving the bulb a slight twist and sudden light floods the room. It was there all along. They just didn't know it. One simple unexpected thing sheds immediate light on everything. That scenario of mine helps me see the situation. All laws are in place to act. So if that is the fact then could we not be seeing the electrician searching the problem they don't even know the answer to,  then out of frustration and last chance effort BOOM let there be light! 

 

 

 

Just read your comment at 2.08 am NZ time. ❤️ 

[LeolaRootStew]

2 hours ago, New World Explorer said:

I humbly think that any framework is irrelevant because for:

1. The framework does not include them handing over the power - no such thing is on the cards. 

2. They do not want to hand over power 

 

Any reform does not include any substance of relinquishing power. 

There is a framework for reform of UN and becoming more efficient but what is recorded in Rev 17:17 purely comes from Jehovah. 

To change things Jehovah will "force it" using his Holy spirit to happen.  (And Jehovah will change it regardless whether the framework exists or not) 

 

I'm not saying framework must be in place ahead of time; it seems reasonable that if they just decided to give their power to the UN, they wouldn't need any lead-up. I'm just saying I don't want to hush people who are watching the UN looking for a possible framework; if that helps them keep on the watch, I'm happy for them.

[Ahuvah]

2 hours ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

I'm not saying framework must be in place ahead of time; it seems reasonable that if they just decided to give their power to the UN, they wouldn't need any lead-up. I'm just saying I don't want to hush people who are watching the UN looking for a possible framework; if that helps them keep on the watch, I'm happy for them.

Now this makes sense, but with a caution.

 

As long as it isn't conveyed in a way that waters down n̈ew understanding or causes a distraction that everyone gets false hopes or start pinning meanings to things that arent quite right..

 

I'm very aware of our beautiful treasure chest of brothers and sisters on this site, some are new and some are still grasping the deeper things. I'm also very aware of making sure conversation is speculative only in areas that the Bible is silent on or things aren't clear.

 

As a participant of this conversation it's important that new understandings especially are conveyed exactly as Jehovah’s channel has intended.

 

I think looking at the current structure and events taking place can be very advantageous as they  only confirm we are in the right place and time. But it is so very easy to get excited about things that MAY be some time off yet. (And I say this only to keep everything objective even though I do think we are very very close). 

 

PS: I am not saying anyone is doing that of course, but sometimes clarification is needed to make sure we are all on the same page IF the topic has a clear path. AND it's always good for me to question to make sure MY interpretation is in line with the GB as well. Love this thread and all of you who work hard at giving fascinating and accurate posts.

[LeslieDean]

I just reread what I wrote, geesh, I just wish someone would have told me to roll over and go back to sleep. I was started on antidepressant one week ago and I think they are making me dramatic and long winded. Forgive please. 

[Ahuvah]

11 minutes ago, LeslieDean said:

I just reread what I wrote, geesh, I just wish someone would have told me to roll over and go back to sleep. I was started on antidepressant one week ago and I think they are making me dramatic and long winded. Forgive please. 

Your comment was just fine .... our journeys are unique to each one of us, even though we all have the same truth. I appreciate you sharing part of yours. You are loved very much on here, of that you can be sure.

[Tronora]

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time?

 

JW are NOT part of BtG.

 

I think Gog of Magog will attack us later. After BtG is done away with by the empowered UN. We still worship God. We still preach during the great tribulation.

 

What if they say peace & security after BtG has been destroyed?

 

They think they've done away with organized religion, but hey, here we are. And Gog/the coalition sees that we are peaceful; think it will be an easy win. Ezek 38:11

 

But they don't know: Ezek 38:16,21

(and also Zech 2:8 'Whoever touches you touches the pupil of my eye')

 

... and sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them (1 Tess 5:3)

 

Just my musings this. Don't have to show me our official understanding. I can find that in the True Worship-book

 

I'm just saying what if

[Ahuvah]

24 minutes ago, Tronora said:

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time

No. They will attack those riding the wild beast ... maybe they will think that includes us, I don't know. But remember they see us 'dwelling in peace' seemingly defenseless,  then they attack. So while we will appear before authorities and go through trials, the peace from Jehovah will never leave us.

Thessalonians says sudden destructions occurs after the cry/statement of peace and security. 

 

I personally think it will all be so fluid that it will seem like one huge event. 

[Shawnster]

20 minutes ago, Tronora said:

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time?

Do non Witnesses know what Babylon the Great is? Do they understand we are not part of Babylon the Great? Do they know they are only supposed to attack Babylon the Great? 

 

Or do they lump us in with all religions? When they turn on religion, will it really matter to them the difference between true and false religion? 

 

We really do not know what will happen or how all this will play out. That's why I've mentioned how valuable Zoom is.  If the government shuts down all houses of worship that might include Kingdom Halls in addition to churches. That will cripple Babylon the Great but not us. We know we can continue just fine through Zoom. We can still meet and preach and teach. We can still receive spiritual food and direction through the JW Library app. 

 

So after false religion is destroyed and the dust settles during that pause of undetermined length, we will still be worshipping Jehovah by preaching the Kingdom. It will be clear we are still alive and this will enrage all those people and nations that just gave up their religion and mourned BtG's loss. That's when Gog attacks us. 

[Ahuvah]

32 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

we will still be worshipping Jehovah by preaching the Kingdom.

I wonder if it's the hailstone message at this time, and that is what calls attention to us?

[Shawnster]

7 minutes ago, Ahuvah said:

I wonder if it's the hailstone message at this time, and that is what calls attention to us?

I don't know. Likely. 

 

Simply preaching and still worshipping God will be enough to draw attention. Add a hailstone message and woah Nellie 

[LeolaRootStew]

3 hours ago, Tronora said:

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time?

 

JW are NOT part of BtG.

 

The Christians in Jerusalem were not the target, but they would have been destroyed if Jehovah hadn't stepped in. That's what I think it will be like. I think the UN will start its attack on false religion and we will be caught in the cross-fire, but instead of wasting time trying to fight a ban on religion in court, I think we will do something radical like shutting down all of our buildings and meeting only on Zoom.

 

This will diminish us as a target at the same time as other religions are rioting and causing problems. The governments will be so distracted by the people causing destruction that they either won't give us a second glance or they will see our empty buildings and conclude we destroyed ourselves. Then, after religion is destroyed, but before the governments realize we still exist, Jehovah will step in.

Edited March 14 by LeolaRootStew

[Ahuvah]

49 minutes ago, LeolaRootStew said:

 

The Christians in Jerusalem were not the target, but they would have been destroyed if Jehovah hadn't stepped in. That's what I think it will be like. I think the UN will start its attack on false religion and we will be caught in the cross-fire, but instead of wasting time trying to fight a ban on religion in court, I think we will do something radical like shutting down all of our buildings and meeting only on Zoom.

 

This will diminish us as a target at the same time as other religions are rioting and causing problems. The governments will be so distracted by the people causing destruction that they either won't give us a second glance or they will see our empty buildings and conclude we destroyed ourselves. Then, after religion is destroyed, but before the governments realize we still exist, Jehovah will step in.

Nice post. The only change would be is that God's people are the targets of Gog of Magog, initially  I think  we will fly under the radar, as the rage will be against false religion riding the beast. And then they will notice as Shawn said, us continuing to worship Jehovah in the fullest capacity we can at the time. It is as they raise up against us that signals Jehovah to step in and bring the GT to a climax with Armageddon. I agree zoom might play a big part in the initial stages of the GT. We might get to see soon. Exciting!

 

Edit: Just thinking about the scripture talking about touching Jehovah’s eyeball ... we know how painful that can be ... but it also indicates that Gog may actually touch us, but Jehovah will be there in a twinkling. As we stand by and watch, our heavenly family come to bat for us. Wow, goosebumps. 

Edited March 14 by Ahuvah

[Ahuvah]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

I don't know. Likely. 

 

Simply preaching and still worshipping God will be enough to draw attention. Add a hailstone message and woah Nellie 

Maybe a simple message will be like hailstones to them? This part hasn't been clarified yet. Can't wait for this year's AM. 

[Michał]

 
The Christians in Jerusalem were not the target, but they would have been destroyed if Jehovah hadn't stepped in. That's what I think it will be like. I think the UN will start its attack on false religion and we will be caught in the cross-fire, but instead of wasting time trying to fight a ban on religion in court, I think we will do something radical like shutting down all of our buildings and meeting only on Zoom.
 
This will diminish us as a target at the same time as other religions are rioting and causing problems. The governments will be so distracted by the people causing destruction that they either won't give us a second glance or they will see our empty buildings and conclude we destroyed ourselves. Then, after religion is destroyed, but before the governments realize we still exist, Jehovah will step in.

This is what I think


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[Michał]

Maybe a simple message will be like hailstones to them? This part hasn't been clarified yet. Can't wait for this year's AM. 

(All religions are banned, or ridiculed or viewed as disgusting) and we preach

Don’t trust human rules but Accept the King Jesus Christ and live forever on a paradise Earth

Thats enough good news bad news (hailstone) message to me . We could always add “…or you will die”


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[Ahuvah]

6 minutes ago, Michał said:

(All religions are banned, or ridiculed or viewed as disgusting) and we preach

Don’t trust human rules but Accept the King Jesus Christ and live forever on a paradise Earth

Thats enough good news bad news (hailstone) message to me . We could always add “…or you will die”


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Yes quite possibly. The anointed will still be with us at this point ... I think ... so there will be still hope.

[Dolce vita]

9 hours ago, Tronora said:

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time?

 

JW are NOT part of BtG.

 

I think Gog of Magog will attack us later. After BtG is done away with by the empowered UN. We still worship God. We still preach during the great tribulation.

 

What if they say peace & security after BtG has been destroyed?

 

They think they've done away with organized religion, but hey, here we are. And Gog/the coalition sees that we are peaceful; think it will be an easy win. Ezek 38:11

 

But they don't know: Ezek 38:16,21

(and also Zech 2:8 'Whoever touches you touches the pupil of my eye')

 

... and sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them (1 Tess 5:3)

 

Just my musings this. Don't have to show me our official understanding. I can find that in the True Worship-book

 

I'm just saying what if

Yes, that's what I've always thought, Sister Tronora, especially since it's Jehovah who is giving the order to attack, so to speak. Perhaps the attack will reach us, on the material level, but what is certain is that the theocratic structure, unlike other religions, will stand. And above all, we won't be seized; we will be the only ones to understand and interpret what will happen then.

[Cool.As.Ice]

That hailstone message could be the catalyst for Gog of Magog…

[trottigy]

16 hours ago, Tronora said:

Just a thought from me: When UN/(ten kings?) attacks Babylon the Great: We are NOT part of BtG. Why do we think they will attack us also? at the same time?

 

JW are NOT part of BtG.

 

 

Because Jesus said that at that time they would attempt to attack us too @ Matt 24:22

 

Quote

22  In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

 

The "the chosen ones" - that's us.

Edited March 14 by trottigy

[feebee]

13 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

Yes, that's what I've always thought, Sister Tronora, especially since it's Jehovah who is giving the order to attack, so to speak. Perhaps the attack will reach us, on the material level, but what is certain is that the theocratic structure, unlike other religions, will stand. And above all, we won't be seized; we will be the only ones to understand and interpret what will happen then.

Yes I agree. "God (will) put it into their hearts to carry out his thought." They are just his tool or instrument to carry out the destruction of the great prostitute. So because Jehovah of Armies is in control, we may go relatively undetected during that time if we follow instructions. We may "go underground" on zoom, but we know from experience we can still stay spiritually strong and function as a united organisation without physically meeting together. Later we become targets.

[Áine]

22 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Do non Witnesses know what Babylon the Great is? Do they understand we are not part of Babylon the Great? Do they know they are only supposed to attack Babylon the Great? 

 

Or do they lump us in with all religions? When they turn on religion, will it really matter to them the difference between true and false religion? 

 

We really do not know what will happen or how all this will play out. That's why I've mentioned how valuable Zoom is.  If the government shuts down all houses of worship that might include Kingdom Halls in addition to churches. That will cripple Babylon the Great but not us. We know we can continue just fine through Zoom. We can still meet and preach and teach. We can still receive spiritual food and direction through the JW Library app. 

 

So after false religion is destroyed and the dust settles during that pause of undetermined length, we will still be worshipping Jehovah by preaching the Kingdom. It will be clear we are still alive and this will enrage all those people and nations that just gave up their religion and mourned BtG's loss. That's when Gog attacks us. 

I’m not sure about in the US but here the churches regularly zoom their meetings

[trottigy]

In my area the LDS went to a mostly online mode during the pandemic. They still do most of their conversations by TV. Since the restrictions lifted they are meeting in-person (but not for the big conventions), but I am sure they could just switch back.