Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Ysaias]

Oh, Daniel! If you had had the JWTalk forum back in your day... would you have been more or less anxious?

 

Daniel 12:

4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end.+ Many will rove about,* and the true knowledge will become abundant.”+

 

8 Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand;+ so I said: “O my lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” 9 Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.+ 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined.+ And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.+

[Ric]

It is worth remembering some recent new understandings.

 

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12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event. Might some who see these events have a change of heart?—Rev. 17:5; Ezek. 33:33.

13 Such an outcome would be similar to what occurred in Egypt in Moses’ day. Recall that “a vast mixed company” joined Israel in the Exodus. Some of these individuals may have started to develop faith when they saw that Moses’ warnings about the Ten Plagues came 

 

true. (Ex. 12:38) If a similar development should occur following the destruction of Babylon the Great, would we be disappointed that people were able to join us shortly before the end comes? Of course not! We want to reflect the personality of our heavenly Father, “a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth.”

 —Ex. 34:6.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2024/What-Do-We-Know-About-Jehovahs-Future-Judgments/#:~:text=12%20Even%20after,34%3A6.

 

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15 It is also reasonable to conclude that a person’s eternal future does not depend on where he happens to live. It is unthinkable that Jehovah would automatically label as “goats” millions of people who live in lands where they never had an opportunity to respond to the  

Kingdom message. (Matt. 25:46) The righteous Judge of all the earth cares even more about these individuals than we ever could. We do not know how Jehovah will maneuver events during the great tribulation. Perhaps some of these people will have an opportunity to learn about Jehovah, put faith in him, and take their stand on Jehovah’s side when he sanctifies himself before all nations.—Ezek. 38:16.

After the great tribulation starts, . . . might some who see these events have a change of heart?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2024/What-Do-We-Know-About-Jehovahs-Future-Judgments/#:~:text=15%20It%20is,change%20of%20heart%3F

 

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Previously, we understood that we would stop preaching the good news when the great tribulation began with the destruction of Babylon the Great. (Rev. 17:3, 5, 15, 16) This event, we believed, would mark the end of the figurative “year of Jehovah’s goodwill.” (Isa. 61:2) We also felt that those who would survive the great tribulation would prove their devotion to Jehovah before that event. We compared them to the Jews who survived the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. These individuals had been marked for survival earlier because they worshipped Jehovah and hated wickedness. (Ezek. 5:11; 9:4) That comparison, however, does not harmonize with Jesus’ words found at Matthew 24:14, which indicate that people may have the opportunity to respond to the good news until just before the final end at Armageddon.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=T&docid=2025527&par=4&srcid=share

 

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Note, too, that the symbolic hailstorm will be “unusually great.” This suggests that during the great tribulation, the preaching work may become more hard-hitting, that is, Jehovah’s name will be made known as never before. (Ezek. 39:7) At that late point in time, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, will some be drawn to the message as to a sweet fragrance? This is quite possible. Perhaps they may recall or learn that for many years Jehovah’s Witnesses had announced the end of false religion.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2025/questions-from-readers/#p6

 

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12 Our clear understanding of Jehovah’s mercy can help us to remain hopeful. When false religion comes to an end, our relatives may recall that we had told them about this event.

 (Rev. 17:16) They may even join us in pure worship after the great tribulation starts. And if our relatives are facing hard times now, we will certainly do all we can to be there for them. Perhaps they will be more receptive to Bible truths as they see that our love and kindness are genuine.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2026281&par=21&srcid=share

 

How long will the great tribulation last?

 

From what we read in the Bible and in the publications of the faithful and discreet slave, it seems reasonable to believe that it will not last many years.

 

If it is years, it seems that it will be few years. How many? Less than 10? Seven years? Three and a half years? Two years, one year? A few months? In fact, it is not easy to predict.

 

But, the closer we get to that period, the more the light becomes clearer and it becomes easier to discern how long the phases of the great tribulation will last.

 

Before the recent understandings, we may have imagined that with the proclamation of peace and security occurring first, the sudden destruction of Babylon the Great and Satan's entire system would happen very soon after, perhaps almost instantaneously. We thought that the preaching would stop and no one would have any more opportunity to take a stand for Jehovah.

 

But, after the adjustments, we realize that Jehovah still wants to save many lives. And we are amazed at Jehovah's patience and mercy.

 

To ensure ample opportunity is given and no one will question in the future that there was some flaw in the judgment process of the sheep and goats due to insufficient time for a favorable reaction to the judgment message, we cannot rule out the possibility that, after the destruction of Babylon the Great, this period may last longer than we previously imagined, perhaps even several years.

 

Obviously not many years or decades, since the prophecy says that “sudden and instantaneous” destruction will come soon after the proclamation of Peace and Security, but it seems reasonable to believe that Jehovah will allow sufficient time for Him to be recognized as a gracious and merciful God.

 

Currently, many study with us and even agree with our beliefs. But they are reluctant to attend our meetings for fear of displeasing family and friends and because, deep down, they have not fully understood the truth and are still attached to their form of worship.

 

But the scenario will be completely different after the destruction of false religions. The Bible shows that people returned to worshiping Jehovah when a good king destroyed the altars and idols of false worship.

 

Can you imagine when sincere people of traditional religions realize that there is only one active religion on Earth proclaiming a biblical message of judgment in a more intensified way than ever before? And when they realize that this organization had accurately predicted the time when the UN would receive all power and authority, that it would eliminate false religion, and that world leaders would think they were bringing a new era of peace and security to the Earth?

 

And beyond all this, we do not know what else Jehovah may do at that crucial time to testify beyond any doubt who his people on Earth truly are. After all, he does not want anyone to be destroyed.

 

Does it not seem reasonable to conclude that many who are now reluctant to take a stand for the truth and other sincere people may turn to true worship and decide to support Christ's brothers, thus qualifying to be part of the great crowd?

[Lance]

Well there those in Christendom that teach 31/2 to 7 years .. taking favourite time periods from Daniel and Revelation.

We don’t see it those terms. Looking for some mathematical/spiritual formula. 
 

Bottom line is Jehovah hasn’t told us ..

It seems to more about substance or purpose then exact time.

 

So what basically is the purpose or the great tribulation. (There are obviously a few more steps)
1)to remove false religion

2)expose the futility of human rulership

3)vindicate Jehovah’s sovereignty

4)and usher in Armageddon

5) leading to a new world of peace and righteousness 

 

The descriptors are symbolic of brevity and suddenness, not exact measurements.
such as one day… one hour.. swiftly .. quickly..cut short.. unexpected..etc.

 

So on the big list .. check .. check…check ..check .. check.. no need to dally Done .. Graduation party from this old world ..check 

Edited 22 hours ago by Lance

[Sweet Tooth]

10 hours ago, Dhanyel said:

I believe that during the great tribulation each one of us will be like a walking library. Jehovah, through the organization, has been training all of us a lot. That’s why reading the Bible, doing personal study, family study, memorizing Kingdom songs, starting conversations, and giving brief and discreet witness has always been so important.

“Does the holy spirit act as a helper to servants of God today? Definitely! Of course, the holy spirit does not put into our minds things that we have never learned, but it does act as a helper to bring back to our minds important things that we have studied in the past. (Luke 11:13; 1 John 5:14) Then, as the need arises, our thinking faculties are stirred to “remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior.”—2 Pet. 3:1, 2.” 

 

- You Can Improve Your Memory, Benefit From Theocratic Ministry School Education

 

 

I believe you always do your work @Dhanyel, rest assured that when time comes, Jehovah will do His as well.

 

“Because everything we have done You have accomplished for us. - Isaiah 26:12.

Edited 21 hours ago by Sweet Tooth

[Sofia]

9 hours ago, Bruceq said:

possible total time of between 1 to 3 years.

Anointed get their final sealing either before they die or before GT starts.

It makes no sense to me if they get the final sealing up to 1-3 years before going to heaven… 

[Sweet Tooth]

13 hours ago, trottigy said:

The "cutting short" is in reference to the initial phase not the entire thing. 

Jehovah  M. U. S. T.  cut it short, because the remaining chosen ones are the last to fill the seats of the 24 Elders as Revelation 4:4 states. 

 

“Who are these elders? They are none other than anointed ones of the Christian congregation, [1. (heavenly)] resurrected and 2.) occupying the heavenly position Jehovah promised them.”

 

- Chapter 14, The Magnificence of Jehovah’s Celestial Throne, Revelation Book. 

 

(I forgot which book, it says they become “Numerically complete Bride Class”) 

[Dhanyel]

About that .... 

Trump is giving Russia almost everything it wants with his Ukraine peace plan

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/ukraine-russia-trump-peace-analysis-intl

[Mike047]

11 hours ago, Áine said:

We may surmise and to some extent speculate but to be perfectly honest we don’t have the full facts at this time and so in many ways it becomes a fruitless exercise 

This is a vey good point, Annie, and we know that the GB will always have 'food for us at the proper time', so they will always have information that prepares them, and they will prayerfully know when to pass it on to us.

[johnnyjw01]

“We will have to wait and see what happens. Bible prophecies are often fully understood when they are being fulfilled or after they have been fulfilled.—Compare John 12:16.

In the meantime, what matters most is, not the timing of the future proclamation of “peace and security,” but our standing before God. We must “stay awake and keep our senses,” so that we may be fully prepared no matter how events unfold.—1 Thess. 5:6.”

 

That’s the most important part of the article, imho 

[Dages]

4 hours ago, Dhanyel said:

About that .... 

Trump is giving Russia almost everything it wants with his Ukraine peace plan

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/21/europe/ukraine-russia-trump-peace-analysis-intl

The ending of Daniel 11 shows a KotN that has very little efficient opposition

[trottigy]

19 hours ago, feebee said:

Things move a lot more quickly today than they did in the first century. 

 

Christians fled Jerusalem in 66CE, and society started breaking down soon after.

 

The Roman army returned to Jerusalem around the time of the Passover in 70 CE. So in just 4 months and 25 days, from April 3 to August 30, the destruction of Jerusalem had been completed.

 

The Insight book under "Jerusalem" says "Thus, the tribulation, though, intense, was remarkably short".

 

Which describes well how I understand the GT. It has 3 phase, an opening one where religions are attacked by the UN's new power and destroyed on a global scale, but Jehovah cuts that attack short to prevent even His people from being destroyed (similar to how He caused Rome to pull back allowing His people to escape). Then there is a pause as phase two. This could take years as the world comes to grips with no more religion and life starts to restore to a new "normal" ( similar to that time after Rome pulled back for a few years and regrouped). We are still preaching and that has to be noticed. This gets that same coalition that took out all the other religions to attack us. This third phase (like that final attack on Jerusalem - also called Armageddon) will be very short.

Edited 8 hours ago by trottigy

[vern]

Shrug.

 

Just be fast.

 

😉

[Doug]

On 11/20/2025 at 4:11 PM, LeolaRootStew said:

I have always believed the GT would last years precisely because of the Jerusalem situation and I know I'm not the only one. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Take heart, Justinah.  Br. Jackson, 2023 AM ~ "Our understanding is clarified according to the proper time and also in a way that will help us not only to endure the great tribulation but also to prosper during that period of time".

 

Regarding Jerusalem 66-70:  The Roman procurator Florus seized 17 talents from the sacred temple treasury. Immediately, the Jews rose up in revolt. Rome reacted swiftly. Within three months there were 30,000 troops appeared on the scene. The Roman soldiers began to undermine the outer wall of the temple. Panic is spreading!

 

That well describes how suddenly the nations may go after religion.  And how religions may respond, by fighting back.  How suddenly the GT may start.

 

Perhaps things will settle down somewhat, after religions have closed down.  "On account of the chosen ones, those days will be cut short". This may be compared to when the Roman troops retreated.

 

However, life never returned to 'normal' in Jerusalem. Within the city rival factions quarreled and fought, much of the food supply was destroyed, and those caught attempting to leave the city were slain as traitors. Josephus relates that in time the famine became so grave that the people were reduced to eating wisps of hay and leather, even their own children.

 

Those conditions may not be repeated during the GT.   Especially if the proclamation of P&S follows the destruction of BtG.  The merchants will say "Too bad, too bad, you great city Babylon", but only because of their loss of business.

 

Br. Jackson said the spiritual food when we need it will not only help us to endure but prosper!

 

The end came for Jerusalem in 4 months and 25 days, from April 3 - 30, 70C.E.  Intense, but remarkably short.  No doubt, when Gog attacks us, and those who have joined us, Armageddon will happen promptly.

[Sofia]

7 hours ago, Dages said:

The ending of Daniel 11 shows a KotN that has very little efficient opposition

I would dare to say that both kings may become allies close to the end with common goals 

scenarios:

1 the KOTN may end at Armageddon 

2 the KOTN actual regime may end before Armageddon 

verses 44-45 can have a total innexpected fullfillment

Edited 3 hours ago by Sofia

[Sofia]

Here is a simple, direct, no-fantasy explanation of how the UN could theoretically gain power — and why that is not happening.

 

⸻

 

 

 1. The only real way for the UN to gain power is:

 

→ For States to give it that power.

 

The UN has no power of its own.

It only has what countries allow.

 

For the UN to have more authority, deep reforms would be required, such as:

 

✔️ Changing the Security Council

• removing or limiting the veto power

• creating new permanent members

• giving the Secretary-General more room to act

 

✔️ Allowing the UN to impose obligations on countries

(things like automatic sanctions, a permanent international force, authority over conflicts)

 

✔️ Creating a permanent UN military force

(a UN Army → only possible if countries give troops and control)

 

✔️ Centralizing global systems

(for example: migration, climate response, pandemics)

 

But none of this is being negotiated in 2025–2026.

Zero.

 

⸻

 

 

 2. Why is this not happening?

 

 

➤ Because major powers will never give up power.

The US, China, and Russia use the veto and have no interest in losing control.

 

➤ Because of geopolitical rivalry.

A fragmented world (US vs. China, Russia vs. the West) makes any power-increasing reform impossible.

 

➤ Because smaller countries are also afraid.

They fear that a stronger UN would mean losing sovereignty.

 

➤ Because the UN Charter does not allow for a world government.

The 1945 Charter was deliberately written to avoid that.

 

⸻

 

 

 3. What do current reforms actually do?

 

 

They aim to simplify, not to gain power.

 

➤ Reduce bureaucracy

➤ Merge departments

➤ Cut costs

➤ Make the UN work better internally

➤ Help the organization survive its financial crisis

 

Nothing here creates:

• additional political power

• global control

• authority over States

• a military force

 

⸻

 

 

🟪 4. If the UN ever gained real power, what would cause it?

 

 

Historically, that only happens when:

 

✔️ there is a major world war

✔️ the international order collapses

✔️ countries desperately need a neutral arbiter

✔️ global populations demand a common authority

 

But 2025–2030 so far is not moving in that direction.

The world is more divided, not more united so the UN becomes weaker, not stronger.

 

⸻

 

 

🟧 Super simple summary

 

 

• The UN is not gaining power.

• UN80 is just an internal restructuring plan.

• Major powers will never allow a stronger UN.

• The global environment is too fragmented for such a shift.

 

So … giving the power to UN will have to be an act of Jehovah, fast and unexpected 

[Bruceq]

1 minute ago, Sofia said:

I would dare to say that both kings may become allies close to the end with common goals 

scenarios:

1 the KOTN may end at Armageddon 

2 the KOTN actual regime may end before Armageddon 

verses 44-45 can have a total innexpected fullfillment

From Daniel 11:44 and 45 will likely not just be the King of the North but all nations under the U.N. flag. After all Armageddon is all nations not just the north. Also Gog of Magog consists of nations from the north AND south as mentioned in Ezekiel 38 but is apparently led by an entity from all the nations or the United nations - Gog. “‘“Be ready, prepare yourselves, you with all your armies that are assembled with you, and you will be their commander." The United Nations may be the commander of all the nations to attack God's people at Armageddon. This idea also corresponds to our thinking from Revelation as well. That is why there is "no helper" for the nations mentioned in verse 45 because there are no other nations to help since they have all been gathered to the situation of Armageddon. Just a thought.

[eliaseje]

22 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Here is a simple, direct, no-fantasy explanation of how the UN could theoretically gain power — and why that is not happening.

 

⸻

 

 

 1. The only real way for the UN to gain power is:

 

→ For States to give it that power.

 

The UN has no power of its own.

It only has what countries allow.

 

For the UN to have more authority, deep reforms would be required, such as:

 

✔️ Changing the Security Council

• removing or limiting the veto power

• creating new permanent members

• giving the Secretary-General more room to act

 

✔️ Allowing the UN to impose obligations on countries

(things like automatic sanctions, a permanent international force, authority over conflicts)

 

✔️ Creating a permanent UN military force

(a UN Army → only possible if countries give troops and control)

 

✔️ Centralizing global systems

(for example: migration, climate response, pandemics)

 

But none of this is being negotiated in 2025–2026.

Zero.

 

⸻

 

 

 2. Why is this not happening?

 

 

➤ Because major powers will never give up power.

The US, China, and Russia use the veto and have no interest in losing control.

 

➤ Because of geopolitical rivalry.

A fragmented world (US vs. China, Russia vs. the West) makes any power-increasing reform impossible.

 

➤ Because smaller countries are also afraid.

They fear that a stronger UN would mean losing sovereignty.

 

➤ Because the UN Charter does not allow for a world government.

The 1945 Charter was deliberately written to avoid that.

 

⸻

 

 

 3. What do current reforms actually do?

 

 

They aim to simplify, not to gain power.

 

➤ Reduce bureaucracy

➤ Merge departments

➤ Cut costs

➤ Make the UN work better internally

➤ Help the organization survive its financial crisis

 

Nothing here creates:

• additional political power

• global control

• authority over States

• a military force

 

⸻

 

 

🟪 4. If the UN ever gained real power, what would cause it?

 

 

Historically, that only happens when:

 

✔️ there is a major world war

✔️ the international order collapses

✔️ countries desperately need a neutral arbiter

✔️ global populations demand a common authority

 

But 2025–2030 so far is not moving in that direction.

The world is more divided, not more united so the UN becomes weaker, not stronger.

 

⸻

 

 

🟧 Super simple summary

 

 

• The UN is not gaining power.

• UN80 is just an internal restructuring plan.

• Major powers will never allow a stronger UN.

• The global environment is too fragmented for such a shift.

 

So … giving the power to UN will have to be an act of Jehovah, fast and unexpected 

 

Actually why U.N. has not done anything yet is because Jehovah has not put it into the hearts of the nations to give it its power.

[eliaseje]

5 hours ago, trottigy said:

 

Which describes well how I understand the GT. It has 3 phase, an opening one where religions are attacked by the UN's new power and destroyed on a global scale, but Jehovah cuts that attack short to prevent even His people from being destroyed (similar to how He caused Rome to pull back allowing His people to escape). Then there is a pause as phase two. This could take years as the world comes to grips with no more religion and life starts to restore to a new "normal" ( similar to that time after Rome pulled back for a few years and regrouped). We are still preaching and that has to be noticed. This gets that same coalition that took out all the other religions to attack us. This third phase (like that final attack on Jerusalem - also called Armageddon) will be very short.

With today's climate of social media and cameras everywhere you think phase 2 will take years?  People will quickly notice how Jehovah’s Witnesses are still preaching unless we are instructed at that time to preach more indiscreetly.