Peace and Security, Great Tribulation, Armageddon

[Sofia]

59 minutes ago, MChill14 said:

I did some research for myself on Daniel 11:44, 45 - particularly vs 44. I just wanted to understand some of the reasoning of how the FDS came to the latest published understanding, the understanding that the “report” disturbing the KOTN could refer to our judgement message. See below. As usual Jehovah doesn’t disappoint. 

 

 

Great research 🥰🙏

Nevertheless last anual meeting we had an adjustment on the judgement message to be proclaimed.

In this context I believe that GB believes these two verses MAY have a different fullfillment outcome.

But like all of us, we need to wait and see 🤗😘

When the Holy Spirit tell them, they will reveal or confirm.

We must trust the only channel Jehovah uses for the whole organization here on Earth 

 

[Dumma]

3 hours ago, Sofia said:

Oh yes. But if Putin is ousted or killed isn’t the end of the nation it self 

Someone else will continue to rule Russia untill Armageddon 

If this happens then a major change in World events could happen

Just like if Trump gets elected. 2025 would be full of surprises in leadership, organizations, etc

 

hope Putin don't have body doubles 

[Dumma]

1 hour ago, MChill14 said:

I did some research for myself on Daniel 11:44, 45 - particularly vs 44. I just wanted to understand some of the reasoning of how the FDS came to the latest published understanding, the understanding that the “report” disturbing the KOTN could refer to our judgement message. See below. As usual Jehovah doesn’t disappoint. 

 

 

this takes more time its between GT climax

[Sofia]

1 minute ago, Dumma said:

hope Putin don't have body doubles 

I think…He does … 🫣

[Abigail]

18 minutes ago, Sofia said:

Great research 🥰🙏

Nevertheless last anual meeting we had an adjustment on the judgement message to be proclaimed.

In this context I believe that GB believes these two verses MAY have a different fullfillment outcome.

But like all of us, we need to wait and see 🤗😘

When the Holy Spirit tell them, they will reveal or confirm.

We must trust the only channel Jehovah uses for the whole organization here on Earth 

 

 

Yes, no hailstone message now. Perhaps time to revisit this explanation from Watchtower 1 November 1993 - The Final Victory of Michael, the Great Prince:-

 

In this article verses 44 and 45 were explained as two separate attacks on two different groups. The first against Babylon the Great, the second the attack on us by Gog of Magog. 

 

A Report Out Of the Sunrising

16. (a) What outstanding event must happen before Armageddon? (b) Who are “the kings from the rising of the sun”?

¹⁶ Before the final battle, Armageddon, a great enemy of true worship must be destroyed—harlotlike Babylon the Great, the worldwide empire of false religion. (Revelation 18:3-8) Her destruction is foreshadowed by the pouring out of the sixth bowl of God’s wrath on the symbolic river Euphrates. The river dries up “that the way might be prepared for the kings from the rising of the sun.” (Revelation 16:12) Who are these kings? None other than Jehovah God and Jesus Christ!a

17. (a) What does the Bible tell us about the destruction of Babylon the Great? (b) What may the report “out of the sunrising” prove to be?

¹⁷ The destruction of Babylon the Great is graphically described in the book of Revelation: “The ten horns that you saw [the ‘kings’ ruling in the time of the end], and the wild beast [the scarlet-colored wild beast, representing the United Nations organization], these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) Truly, the nations ‘destroy much flesh’! (Daniel 7:5) But why will the rulers, including the king of the north, destroy Babylon the Great? Because ‘God puts it into their hearts to carry out his thought.’ (Revelation 17:17) The report “out of the sunrising” may well refer to this act of Jehovah, when, in a way that he chooses, he puts it into the hearts of human leaders to annihilate the great religious harlot.—Daniel 11:44.

A Report Out Of the North

18. What other target does the king of the north have, and where does this locate him when he comes to his end?

¹⁸ But there is another target for the wrath of the king of the north. The angel says that he will “plant his palatial tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration.” (Daniel 11:45) In Daniel’s time, the grand sea was the Mediterranean, and the holy mountain was Zion, once the site of God’s temple. Hence, in the prophecy’s fulfillment, the enraged king of the north conducts a military campaign against God’s people! In a spiritual sense today, “between the grand sea and the holy mountain” locates him in the spiritual estate of God’s anointed servants, who have come out of “the sea” of alienated mankind and have the hope of ruling on heavenly Mount Zion with Jesus Christ.—Isaiah 57:20; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 14:1.

 

[Keep Fighting]

w20 May pp. 12-16

 

This attack by the king of the north,

 

acting along with the rest of the world’s governments, provokes the Almighty and brings on the war of Armageddon. (Rev. 16:14, 16) At that time, the king of the north, along with the rest of the nations that make up Gog of Magog, comes to his end, and there will be “no helper for him”. —Dan. 11:45.

 

Dear friends, we're not here yet. Let's wait for the slave to tell us we're there. If we don't wait, we might get run over by the chariot of heaven.
Let's stick to what the slave says and be good examples to those who read this, remember it's open to all.

[Abigail]

Daniel 11:44, 45 can also be harmonised wth Matthew 24:21,22 - again two phased.

[Sofia]

23 minutes ago, Abigail said:

between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration

But this is not Israel old territory.

this has puzzled my mind since I was 12. Israel territory was from the sea until far east of Jerusalem (holy mountain place). East of Jordan river 

 

This piece of territory mentioned by Daniel refers to the place where the Roman troops camped back in 66EC. Mat.24:15

 

But… at the end of the day the outcome will be the same: BTG destruction and the attack on God s people will inevitably happen in the near future anyway.

Edited March 1 by Sofia

[Sofia]

5 minutes ago, Abigail said:

Daniel 11:44, 45 can also be harmonised wth Matthew 24:21,22 - again two phased.

I also believe these so verses are two phased. 45 is not necessary an  immediate sequence from 44.

Let’s wait and see if these are more related to mat24:15 

Edited March 1 by Sofia

[Richie]

6 hours ago, Miss Bea said:

They are saying if Mr. Trump gets in as president, it’s the end of democracy. People are actually scared. ‘Cause he might just get elected! All this does is show the futility of any sort of man made government . 
Exciting times ahead. Jehovah will have us prepared! 
So, what’s going on is sort of just a, “stop-gap”. 
At this point it’s more irritating than scary for me. Something we have to go through..

And, go through it, we shall. 

Yes, so exciting times ahead even me I feel the heat. Long decades we wait I am sure Jehovah is glad that we are so awake to witness the fulfillment of His words. 

[Richie]

1 hour ago, Sofia said:

Great research 🥰🙏

Nevertheless last anual meeting we had an adjustment on the judgement message to be proclaimed.

In this context I believe that GB believes these two verses MAY have a different fullfillment outcome.

But like all of us, we need to wait and see 🤗😘

When the Holy Spirit tell them, they will reveal or confirm.

We must trust the only channel Jehovah uses for the whole organization here on Earth 

 

Also bro. Winder's talk suggests that the scene of world may adjust some of our understanding. Although there were conclusions but are kept them on hold until Jehovah's time. Honestly, I keep looking on these verses on how the prophecies may fulfill according to current situations

Somehow today's events have helped me to understand the partiality of these verses. 

[Richie]

51 minutes ago, Keep Fighting said:

w20 May pp. 12-16

 

This attack by the king of the north,

 

acting along with the rest of the world’s governments, provokes the Almighty and brings on the war of Armageddon. (Rev. 16:14, 16) At that time, the king of the north, along with the rest of the nations that make up Gog of Magog, comes to his end, and there will be “no helper for him”. —Dan. 11:45.

 

Dear friends, we're not here yet. Let's wait for the slave to tell us we're there. If we don't wait, we might get run over by the chariot of heaven.
Let's stick to what the slave says and be good examples to those who read this, remember it's open to all.

Yes, for the meantime let's stick to the FDS. Our own research may have some partial truth but keep it to ourselve for now. Or we can discuss it as part of casual discussion but not a conclusive truth. Like the identity of the KOTN, more than a decade some knew its partial identity but we just kept it not a conclusive truth. Our own studies are the product of eagerness to see how Jehovah fullfill His words. Once we got some truths, we were so happy because Jehovah blessed our perseverance and keeping in the faith. 

[Dolce vita]

9 hours ago, Leonard Match Valid said:

Je suis d'accord sœur Jenny... je l'ai remarqué aussi

Après Covid, tout a changé

Je pense que le principe de Matthieu 6:33 et 34 est maintenant plus utile qu'avant les années précédentes

Hier, dans la salle, en discutant avec un jeune frère, mais un vétéran de l'organisation, il m'a dit que pour qu'il y ait une étincelle dans le scénario "paix et sécurité", il faudrait que Poutine déclenche des pétards là

C’est bien sûr une triste déclaration, mais le contexte semble y conduire.

Eh bien, cela touche nos sentiments, nos émotions et notre réflexion. 

Jusqu’où irons-nous pour en arriver à la fin ?

Que pensons-nous lorsque nous lisons Matthieu 24, par exemple ?

Nous avons besoin d'un équilibre gigantesque en 2024. 
Cela ne s'est jamais produit dans toute l'histoire de l'humanité, je pense que même à l'époque du « Mont Vésuve » à Pompéi, il n'y avait rien de tel aujourd'hui.
 

I am not far from thinking that we will move towards a dramatization of the situation before the authorities concerned give birth to a cry which will signal our deliverance... and that of humanity too. I begin to greatly long for the end of the wicked to come, for the wicked himself so that he will never again have to suffer from the situation that exists under the dominion of the Opponent.

 

In France the President entered into a power struggle with KON. All the experts analyze the slightest word, many are extremely concerned by the situation. A 3rd world war is often mentioned, the sending of troops to Ukraine is starting to make young people shudder. So in this context, the main thing is to preserve your emotional capital by finding that Mat6:33 is the most beautiful verse in the Bible in terms of keeping your balance. It is a verse that tells us: 'You who live for and through Jehovah, He will never leave you.'

 

Everyone who expresses themselves on this thread has a fever that I feed off with delight, an incredible understanding of the Scriptures, particularly prophecies like that of Daniel. I am very very grateful to all of  you for your passion for study which finds reason in mine. Let's wait together for the miracle, the realization of all the prophecies!

[MChill14]

I’m curious, with people saying we’ve had an adjustment with regard to the judgement message. This is the way I understood it. Referring to Matthew 24:14, they said the “good news” will be preached to the “end” meaning Armageddon? And our message will become a message of judgement if people reject it? I didn’t see anything published in the recent WT on JW.ORG, maybe still to come? 🙏🙏

[Richie]

2 minutes ago, MChill14 said:

I’m curious, with people saying we’ve had an adjustment with regard to the judgement message. This is the way I understood it. Referring to Matthew 24:14, they said the “good news” will be preached to the “end” meaning Armageddon? And our message will become a message of judgement if people reject it? I didn’t see anything published in the recent WT on JW.ORG, maybe still to come? 🙏🙏

It is not yet published. Instead its a talk by Bro. Cook. 

[kejedo]

p.s Don't mean to be misleading. I have not yet done all the re-reading. Lotta stuff.  Wow! 

[Sofia]

36 minutes ago, Richie said:

It is not yet published. Instead it’s a talk by Bro. Cook. 

Watchtower 2024 May issue 

take a look

[MChill14]

I can’t seem to find it. Where in the May 2024 WT does it talk about the judgement message?

[Richie]

3 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

I am not far from thinking that we will move towards a dramatization of the situation before the authorities concerned give birth to a cry which will signal our deliverance... and that of humanity too. I begin to greatly long for the end of the wicked to come, for the wicked himself so that he will never again have to suffer from the situation that exists under the dominion of the Opponent.

 

In France the President entered into a power struggle with KON. All the experts analyze the slightest word, many are extremely concerned by the situation. A 3rd world war is often mentioned, the sending of troops to Ukraine is starting to make young people shudder. So in this context, the main thing is to preserve your emotional capital by finding that Mat6:33 is the most beautiful verse in the Bible in terms of keeping your balance. It is a verse that tells us: 'You who live for and through Jehovah, He will never leave you.'

 

Everyone who expresses themselves on this thread has a fever that I feed off with delight, an incredible understanding of the Scriptures, particularly prophecies like that of Daniel. I am very very grateful to all of  you for your passion for study which finds reason in mine. Let's wait together for the miracle, the realization of all the prophecies!

Despite of our personal differences I feel the love and faith among us. Surely, Jehovah will let us see the fulfillment of what we are longing for... 

[Richie]

5 hours ago, Sofia said:

But this is not Israel old territory.

this has puzzled my mind since I was 12. Israel territory was from the sea until far east of Jerusalem (holy mountain place). East of Jordan river 

 

This piece of territory mentioned by Daniel refers to the place where the Roman troops camped back in 66EC. Mat.24:15

 

But… at the end of the day the outcome will be the same: BTG destruction and the attack on God s people will inevitably happen in the near future anyway.

For me "The Holy Mountain of Decoration" should be the same symbolic place as mentioned at Isaiah 2:2 and Micah 4:1. Please try a look... 

[Richie]

13 hours ago, Sofia said:

Religion freedom is being discussed in Geneva at UN

https://bnnbreaking.com/international-relations/vatican-urges-global-action-against-rising-religious-persecution-citing-49-billion-affected

"Archbishop Balestrero drew attention to concerning data from the pontifical foundation Aid to the Church in Need, which indicates that religious freedom is compromised in nearly one-third of the world's nations. This situation adversely impacts approximately 4.9 billion individuals globally. Furthermore, he criticized the misuse of legislation aimed at combating hate speech in some Western countries, where it has instead fostered religious discrimination and censorship under the pretense of promoting tolerance and inclusion". 

 

This sounds like some governments are starting up... 

[JennyM]

4 hours ago, Richie said:

"Archbishop Balestrero drew attention to concerning data from the pontifical foundation Aid to the Church in Need, which indicates that religious freedom is compromised in nearly one-third of the world's nations. This situation adversely impacts approximately 4.9 billion individuals globally. Furthermore, he criticized the misuse of legislation aimed at combating hate speech in some Western countries, where it has instead fostered religious discrimination and censorship under the pretense of promoting tolerance and inclusion". 

 

This sounds like some governments are starting up... 

Hopefully, Im so tired with this system. 

[truce]

9 hours ago, MChill14 said:

I’m curious, with people saying we’ve had an adjustment with regard to the judgement message. This is the way I understood it. Referring to Matthew 24:14, they said the “good news” will be preached to the “end” meaning Armageddon? And our message will become a message of judgement if people reject it? I didn’t see anything published in the recent WT on JW.ORG, maybe still to come? 🙏🙏

I was waiting for someone to pick up on this. I think it's too definitive to say we've had an adjustment with regard to the judgment message. The GB has said that while we may declare a hard-hitting judgment message that is likened to hailstones that gets heavier in intensity as the GT progresses (very likely a message signaling that Satan's system is about to end), we must also realize that even the message of the good news in itself can be a judgment message for those who do not accept it. We must remember that as explained in the book Live With Jehovah's Day in Mind, even now we have a twofold message to declare: announcing the good news of what God's kingdom will do and also announcing the judgment that is soon to come upon the entire inhabited earth. In this regard, nothing has changed. 

[JennyM]

10 hours ago, Dolce vita said:

I am not far from thinking that we will move towards a dramatization of the situation before the authorities concerned give birth to a cry which will signal our deliverance... and that of humanity too. I begin to greatly long for the end of the wicked to come, for the wicked himself so that he will never again have to suffer from the situation that exists under the dominion of the Opponent.

No humans like suffering. 

I dont like that 9-5 workdays to pay for bills and for buying food and just living the basic needs. Like no time for travelling. 

Its better for us to discover creation and build the system into a better world. 

 

I myself as a child was deprived of parental/emotional nurture. I had to deal with emotional trauma. 

The present evil system is only for those privileged and they dominate other human beings. 

And to have a family in the system causes great sacrifices and pain. 

 

After pandemic, there's still huge issues on mental health.

How long this system will be?

With the threat of nuclear war, I hope that things will speed up. 

Only those who are asleep would want this system to continue. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike047]

Lots of views here, and many good points, but best to keep patiently waiting, since "the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants"  (Amos 3:7), in this case the GB.

 

We wait for Jehovah to tell us, whilst we wait on other people to tell them